Need your feed back

Molecular Products Ltd · 12th October 2006, 13:19

Quote: (Originally Posted by TordoffR)

Would it be posible to post that letter on here? Then we could print it out to travel with when needed.

Thanks!

Quote: (Originally Posted by pockets)

Hi Sven,
Try to get hold of " Life Support Systems Design" by nuckols, tucker and sarich. Simon & Schuster custom publishing ISBN 0-536-59616-6
I think it is out of print but it is worth hunting out. lotts of useful data and formulea for any rebreather nurd and worth its weight in Dragersorb for the homebuilder.

Good luck. If you have no joy, drop me a line and I will scan the pages with the theoretical bedlife info.

cheers pockets

Q1) Fill scrubber to one third full, tap the side to settle, Fill to two thirds full, tap the side to settle, repeat step for final third. This is the optimium way to fill Sofnolime. You will get more capacity using a smaller material, please check your equipment is designed to take a smaller material.
Q2) I would suggest that trying to calculate scrubber duration very accurately on your own is dangerous to say the least. There are several variables that are not constant or even certain, C02 output can vary during dive, flow rate can change some of these you may not even be very aware of. Simple answer is no. I will post some more info soon to support this arguement.
Q3) We are chasing the holy grail and do dedicate a lot of time and R&D to achieve this, the likely hood is it will cost more as sodalime is the most cost efficient chemistry out there.

Janos · 12th October 2006, 13:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by Molecular Products Ltd)

Q1) Fill scrubber to one third full, tap the side to settle, Fill to two thirds full, tap the side to settle, repeat step for final third. This is the optimium way to fill Sofnolime.

It may sound like a silly question but how much do you tap it? Until it can compress no more?

Janos

Molecular Products Ltd · 12th October 2006, 13:37

Quote: (Originally Posted by viscya)

Well, the obvious question you will get is "how can we have a superior product at less cost?"

I think everyone knows that MP is the superior product, but how can we as the user get it at a better cost? In the US, there seem to be a bottle neck with O.C. Lugo. They only sell to sea pearls. The rest of us must deal with them. If I can order a pallet of product, why can't I get it from O.C. directly? Other manufacturers/distributors will sell directly in these quantities. Why won't O.C.? This step through two middle men makes the price of your product out of line.

FWIW

Dave

Hi Dave, I was not aware this was the case. What is the current market price for Sofnolime in the US that you would pay and how does this compare to other products. I would think the way to unblock this bottle neck would be to appoint new distributors in the states. We could not sensibly deal in one pallet lots but could appoint more distributors with the express instruction that they supply direct and not to just to sub distributors as OC Lugo appear to be doing. Every day is a school day. Thank you for the compliment on Sofnolime.

Molecular Products Ltd · 12th October 2006, 13:41

Quote: (Originally Posted by CharlieT)

I believe I know the answer will be standard plastic container sizing but otherwise any chance the 4.5 kilo container could be increased to just over two Inspiration Vision fills of sof?

Charlie

Charlie thanks for the reply, how does a soft packaging bag with exactly one inspiration fill of sof in it that had a handle full labeled that you could through in your suitcase!!!

Molecular Products Ltd · 12th October 2006, 13:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by The Purist)

or KISS/Meg fills - not sure about the Boris but IIRC the Meg is one of the larger scrubber capacities, so selling a container of 2 x that should keep everyone happy.

Another option would be some more reliable indication of scrubber usage - the current colour change products aren't held in great esteem round here.

The holy grail would of course be an easily packed, high CO2 capacity, low cost material... go on, you know you want to

Charlie, we have an easily packed, high CO2 capacity low cost material it is called sofnolime, go on you know you want to!!

Molecular Products Ltd · 12th October 2006, 13:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by Janos)

It may sound like a silly question but how much do you tap it? Until it can compress no more?

Janos

Come on! Not hard enough to crack the scrubber but hard enough to make it settle. No seriousy, If you can imagine tapping the side of a bucket full of water, you want ripples not splashes.

hchoat · 12th October 2006, 13:50

Welcome to the board- it really is nice to have a perspective fromt he manufacturing side.

I'm very happy with the product, but will second Viscya's comments on U.S. distributorships!

Current price is running around $165 for a 44lb keg of 8-12.

***Beanie*** · 12th October 2006, 13:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by Molecular Products Ltd)

Charlie thanks for the reply, how does a soft packaging bag with exactly one inspiration fill of sof in it that had a handle full labeled that you could through in your suitcase!!!

A range of different containers could be useful maybe a 10kg one. Be that little bit easier to handle. 5kg rather than 4.5kg, might be worth finidng out what KISS, meg Sport KISS etc scrubbers hold and have a tub that has enough for two fills for the biggest of those.

Molecular Products Ltd · 12th October 2006, 13:53

Quote: (Originally Posted by louisrankin)

Hi Stephen,

Welcome to Rebreather World can you tell me the difference between medical grade sofnolime and rebreather grade? Is there more stringent testing done on the Rebreather grade or Medical grade? I know some people use the medical grade that changes colour in there Rebreather. I am just curious as to what the difference is between the two products and also how accurate is the colour change indication?

I look forward to your answer.

Louis

Diving grade is manufactured and tested to a much higher standard, we would not advise anybody to dive on medical grade, it could be a life limiting decision. We and other manufacturers supply diving grade with indicators if you really want them. Indicators became an issue when one manufacturer (not MPL) changed the type of dye that the used which reacted more and gave the scrubber media a bad chemical taste. I believe thay have now stopped this. Does anyone know if indicators still cause changes in taste and if si with what products?

Molecular Products Ltd · 12th October 2006, 14:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by Beanie)

A range of different containers could be useful maybe a 10kg one. Be that little bit easier to handle. 5kg rather than 4.5kg, might be worth finidng out what KISS, meg Sport KISS etc scrubbers hold and have a tub that has enough for two fills for the biggest of those.

I am listening to you Charlie and I hear you but we like to reduce our offering on bulky packaging sizes not increase them.
Does the soft packaging idea in exactly the right weight not sound like a hit then.

12th October 2006, 13:19	#31 (permalink)
Molecular Products Ltd New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: UK Posts: 53	Re: Need your feed back Quote: (Originally Posted by TordoffR) Would it be posible to post that letter on here? Then we could print it out to travel with when needed. Thanks! Quote: (Originally Posted by pockets) Hi Sven, Try to get hold of " Life Support Systems Design" by nuckols, tucker and sarich. Simon & Schuster custom publishing ISBN 0-536-59616-6 I think it is out of print but it is worth hunting out. lotts of useful data and formulea for any rebreather nurd and worth its weight in Dragersorb for the homebuilder. Good luck. If you have no joy, drop me a line and I will scan the pages with the theoretical bedlife info. cheers pockets Q1) Fill scrubber to one third full, tap the side to settle, Fill to two thirds full, tap the side to settle, repeat step for final third. This is the optimium way to fill Sofnolime. You will get more capacity using a smaller material, please check your equipment is designed to take a smaller material. Q2) I would suggest that trying to calculate scrubber duration very accurately on your own is dangerous to say the least. There are several variables that are not constant or even certain, C02 output can vary during dive, flow rate can change some of these you may not even be very aware of. Simple answer is no. I will post some more info soon to support this arguement. Q3) We are chasing the holy grail and do dedicate a lot of time and R&D to achieve this, the likely hood is it will cost more as sodalime is the most cost efficient chemistry out there.
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12th October 2006, 13:25	#32 (permalink)
Janos "Two Sheds" Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: East Surrey Posts: 594	Re: Need your feed back Quote: (Originally Posted by Molecular Products Ltd) Q1) Fill scrubber to one third full, tap the side to settle, Fill to two thirds full, tap the side to settle, repeat step for final third. This is the optimium way to fill Sofnolime. It may sound like a silly question but how much do you tap it? Until it can compress no more? Janos __________________ You can lead a horse to water but you can't climb a ladder with a large bell in both hands - Vic Reeves www.hellfins.com/shed
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12th October 2006, 13:37	#33 (permalink)
Molecular Products Ltd New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: UK Posts: 53	Re: Need your feed back Quote: (Originally Posted by viscya) Well, the obvious question you will get is "how can we have a superior product at less cost?" I think everyone knows that MP is the superior product, but how can we as the user get it at a better cost? In the US, there seem to be a bottle neck with O.C. Lugo. They only sell to sea pearls. The rest of us must deal with them. If I can order a pallet of product, why can't I get it from O.C. directly? Other manufacturers/distributors will sell directly in these quantities. Why won't O.C.? This step through two middle men makes the price of your product out of line. FWIW Dave Hi Dave, I was not aware this was the case. What is the current market price for Sofnolime in the US that you would pay and how does this compare to other products. I would think the way to unblock this bottle neck would be to appoint new distributors in the states. We could not sensibly deal in one pallet lots but could appoint more distributors with the express instruction that they supply direct and not to just to sub distributors as OC Lugo appear to be doing. Every day is a school day. Thank you for the compliment on Sofnolime.
(Offline)

12th October 2006, 13:41	#34 (permalink)
Molecular Products Ltd New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: UK Posts: 53	Re: Need your feed back Quote: (Originally Posted by CharlieT) I believe I know the answer will be standard plastic container sizing but otherwise any chance the 4.5 kilo container could be increased to just over two Inspiration Vision fills of sof? Charlie Charlie thanks for the reply, how does a soft packaging bag with exactly one inspiration fill of sof in it that had a handle full labeled that you could through in your suitcase!!!
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12th October 2006, 13:45	#35 (permalink)
Molecular Products Ltd New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: UK Posts: 53	Re: Need your feed back Quote: (Originally Posted by The Purist) or KISS/Meg fills - not sure about the Boris but IIRC the Meg is one of the larger scrubber capacities, so selling a container of 2 x that should keep everyone happy. Another option would be some more reliable indication of scrubber usage - the current colour change products aren't held in great esteem round here. The holy grail would of course be an easily packed, high CO2 capacity, low cost material... go on, you know you want to Charlie, we have an easily packed, high CO2 capacity low cost material it is called sofnolime, go on you know you want to!!
(Offline)

12th October 2006, 13:47	#36 (permalink)
Molecular Products Ltd New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: UK Posts: 53	Re: Need your feed back Quote: (Originally Posted by Janos) It may sound like a silly question but how much do you tap it? Until it can compress no more? Janos Come on! Not hard enough to crack the scrubber but hard enough to make it settle. No seriousy, If you can imagine tapping the side of a bucket full of water, you want ripples not splashes.
(Offline)

12th October 2006, 13:50	#37 (permalink)
hchoat Resident Selkie Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Pensacola, FL- USA Posts: 227	Re: Need your feed back Welcome to the board- it really is nice to have a perspective fromt he manufacturing side. I'm very happy with the product, but will second Viscya's comments on U.S. distributorships! Current price is running around $165 for a 44lb keg of 8-12. __________________ Duct tape is like the force... it has a light side and dark side, and it holds the universe together. Last edited by hchoat : 12th October 2006 at 13:53.
(Online)

12th October 2006, 13:50	#38 (permalink)
*Beanie* Close to that red button Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In da house! yeah baby! Posts: 3,207	Re: Need your feed back Quote: (Originally Posted by Molecular Products Ltd) Charlie thanks for the reply, how does a soft packaging bag with exactly one inspiration fill of sof in it that had a handle full labeled that you could through in your suitcase!!! A range of different containers could be useful maybe a 10kg one. Be that little bit easier to handle. 5kg rather than 4.5kg, might be worth finidng out what KISS, meg Sport KISS etc scrubbers hold and have a tub that has enough for two fills for the biggest of those. __________________ Beanie Gallery Admin & Library Assistant. www.outlawdivers.org.uk www.beandiving.co.uk www.beanengineering.co.uk www.divelife.co.uk
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12th October 2006, 13:53	#39 (permalink)
Molecular Products Ltd New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: UK Posts: 53	Re: Need your feed back Quote: (Originally Posted by louisrankin) Hi Stephen, Welcome to Rebreather World can you tell me the difference between medical grade sofnolime and rebreather grade? Is there more stringent testing done on the Rebreather grade or Medical grade? I know some people use the medical grade that changes colour in there Rebreather. I am just curious as to what the difference is between the two products and also how accurate is the colour change indication? I look forward to your answer. Louis Diving grade is manufactured and tested to a much higher standard, we would not advise anybody to dive on medical grade, it could be a life limiting decision. We and other manufacturers supply diving grade with indicators if you really want them. Indicators became an issue when one manufacturer (not MPL) changed the type of dye that the used which reacted more and gave the scrubber media a bad chemical taste. I believe thay have now stopped this. Does anyone know if indicators still cause changes in taste and if si with what products?
(Offline)

12th October 2006, 14:22	#40 (permalink)
Molecular Products Ltd New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: UK Posts: 53	Re: Need your feed back Quote: (Originally Posted by Beanie) A range of different containers could be useful maybe a 10kg one. Be that little bit easier to handle. 5kg rather than 4.5kg, might be worth finidng out what KISS, meg Sport KISS etc scrubbers hold and have a tub that has enough for two fills for the biggest of those. I am listening to you Charlie and I hear you but we like to reduce our offering on bulky packaging sizes not increase them. Does the soft packaging idea in exactly the right weight not sound like a hit then.
(Offline)

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