introduction and seeking advice

silent running

Love that new avatar Stefan, you naked ape.-Andy

Steve

Just make sure you stand back when he starts flinging stuff at you

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WARNING: I contain occasional coarse language, extreme sexual references, nudity, and adult themes, which may offend some people - Usually churchy types.

silent running

He has been known to fling stuff now and then, hasn't he?-Andy

silent running

Stefan? Oh Stefan? ...Crickets... Come on now, that's funny stuff up there... http://www.rebreatherworld.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

caveseeker7

Just waited for the Pepto Bismol to kick in.

__________________
Cheers
Stefan



"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority,
and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"

CCR-Wrecker

[quote] "However, unless you have a booster pump, you might not be able to get a full O2 fill to 3000 as it is hard to find anyone who pumps it that high due to safety concerns."[quote]

Stringray divers in Brooklyn will do it. I take my AL's there, of course that's if you don't own a booster. I myself do not
Andy

silent running

[quote=CCR-Wrecker][quote] "However, unless you have a booster pump, you might not be able to get a full O2 fill to 3000 as it is hard to find anyone who pumps it that high due to safety concerns." Hi Andy, I think Gillenvy lives in Pacific NW and is going to be diving away from civilization for a few days on end. Might be able to find someone in his area, but in my experience, it's had to get hp O2 fills. Glad to know Stingray does.-Andy

caveseeker7

Hi Gillenvy, thought I add my two cents to the discussion.

More than anything else I have to second Andy, when choosing a rebreather you should understand how and why the different designs work, their advantages and disadvantages on an operational and design level.

Given that you're kayaking I'd think size, and to a lesser extend weight, are an important consideration. Weight to a lesser extend since you have to be able to control your bouyancy, so at least some of the weight you save on a lighter unit you'll have to add in lead. By the time you're descending the difference will be negilgible between say a Meg with steel tanks and a PRISM with stock alu tanks, or an Inspiration and the smaller Evolution.

Sizewise the Sport Kiss is about as small as you can get. The Mini Meg is also very small, the Meg while larger packs comparatively small. The PRISM is about the size of the Meg, but mounted to a board and with a cowling and thus takes up more space. Same for the Classic Kiss, the frame containing the CL isn't gonna get any smaller. The Evolution comes in a box which is fairly small. Asuming you don't want to customize your brandspanking new $$$ CCR it's either small enough or not. Inspiration and Ouroboros don't pack so well. The O2ptima is quite large and heavy, but supposedly folds small when the tanks are off. I haven't seen that yet, worth checking out when you do the intro.

I wouldn't take tank size much into consideration if most of my diving was local. It's an issue when you travel to locations that can't supply 2 ltr, 3 ltr and 4 ltr cylinders common to rebreathers. Most CCRs will take small 2 ltr cylinders, so if need be you can travel with a pair.

Instead I would consider the logistics when diving at your normal location.
Ideally you don't want to start a new dive with less than half a tank of gas, but you should be able to safely get a day worth of diving out of a two liter cylinder. As long as you got bouyancy sorted out, don't yoyo around too much and don't have to adress problems that use up gas while trying to pinpoint, fix, verify and getting dive ready again. Units with external tanks can take either two or three liter cylinders without problem, and larger units the smaller size likewise. The two limited units are the Evo, which can only take the small tanks, and the O2ptima which can fit the small tank or the much larger 4 ltr ones that are stock.

Take separate bailout. The onboard gas is marginal for very cold water dives you're likely to do in the PNW. Unless you actually need to bail out the tank(s) will last the entire trip.

If you do multi day trips you'll still need several tanks, but they'll be much smaller.

Take into consideration scrubber duration. How long a scrubber lasts, how much diving you'll do on a trip or in a day. Will you need to haul a pail of absorbant along? How often will you have to open the loop and change the scrubber? How conveniently can it be done.

The Sport Kiss has a 2 1/2 hr rating, and the canister is very small. Changing is quick and easy, and spare canisters are available and easily transported. They even come with caps for the openings to keep the absorbant fresh. Eventually a larger version should become available increasing duration, and maybe, just maybe, the 50m/165ft limit.

The Evo has 2 hr rating, but at the high CO2 flow rate required by CE standards. An optional thermo gauge for the scrubber is available and should help to maximize your time. You should easily get as much out of it a the Sport Kiss, probably more.

The Mini Meg's cannister I don't know much about, except that it's smaller than the Meg's. Inserts should be available but likely have to be bagged. Duration is given at 2 hrs I believe.

The Megs duration is three hours, same design as the Mini Meg's.

The PRISM has a stated 5 hr duration, additional baskets are available and must be bagged.

The O2ptima uses the cartridges which are individually packed anyway and like the Sport Kiss very convinient to change (more so than the Meg, and quite a bit more than Evo and PRISM which are more ... fumbly). Cold water duration (50 degrees F !?) is just over two hours.

Have a look at the different test protocols where available. Pressure and temperature influence scrubber duration and vary vastly.

Also consider some of the features like ability to drain the lungs (worth considering when doing deco, wreck or cave dives), HUD, BOV etc.

Lastly price and availability (of unit and training).
Prices for the discussed units range from about $5000 to about$10,000.

Availability also varies, O2ptimas, Sport Kisses or Megs you should be able to dive some time in Spring. Evos might take a couple of months more. By the time your group can call PRISMs their own you may well have traded the kayaks for a cabin cruiser because y'all gotten to old to paddle.

Training for units from Jetsam, ISC and APD shouldn't be a problem. Jetsam and ISC are local to your area, and APD has the broadest CCR instructor base that I know of. Dive Rite and SMI likely will involve some travelling and associated expense.

Good luck making your choice.

__________________
Cheers
Stefan



"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority,
and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"

Gill Envy

thanks stephan and everyone for your thoughts so far. I'll be reporting back next week after our all the try outs to share the experience, all be it from a beginner's point of view.
Just got back from kayak diving bachelor rock in fresh water bay and the west end of Waada island in neah bay...46F water and snow on the ground. With each sip of cold, dry compressed air we dreamed of warm moist air...and once again busted our buts to get to a really amazing reef, encrusted with inverts only to have to watch our air guages, wishing we could kick harder to stay warm but not wanting to use up our air faster...we managed to eek out a 50 min dive. We are definitely excited at the prospects of being able to explore farther with more comfort.
george