Howdy to all

DaveC · 14th March 2005, 12:19

Howdy... (Said with the voice of Mini Perl)

Just thought I'd introduce myself,

Dave Clemmens from a small town in Ontario - Tottenham. Been diving since I was about 7 and got certified when I was 13. Didn't get TriMix certified until last year though and after seeing the costs involved decided to go to CCR. Haven't done a lot of dives in the mixed gas area, but the ones I've done I’ve really enjoyed.

I start my CCR training in May on the Topaz and hope to have my unit at the latest in July sometime. Or sooner if the gods feel I deserve it.

You'll probably be driven nuts with some of my questions and you'll have to excuse me if they're lame. While I'm waiting for my training and such, I've been playing around with the software trying to figure out tables and such and as I currently use V-Planner, I just downloaded GAP to give a comparison for the RGBM side of things. I'm also currently trying to decide which computer I should go with - Explorer or the VR3. I've heard good things about both but just don't know... if anyone out there has advice, I'm always willing to listen.

I know that SMI is coming out with an integrated unit with the Prism, but there's been no release date and diving an OC computer kind of negates the fixed PP02's that the CCR has... So I'd like to come out of the gate with the correct tool. And yes I could cut a table and go with a BT, but with technology the way it is... that is a good backup option.

Anyway, I'm sure I'll be talking to you all real soon.

Dave

DoubleTop · 14th March 2005, 12:33

Welcome to Rebreather World Dave

we all start somewhere, so post away, that's what the forums are all about

DT.

***schford*** · 14th March 2005, 12:33

to the board!!

Hope we can all help you and each other :-)

Stuart

***Decodiver*** · 14th March 2005, 14:09

Welcome aboard Dave.

***caveseeker7*** · 14th March 2005, 15:45

Hi Dave,

good to see you.

Who will you be doing your training with?
NAUI or IANTD? The former uses RGBM tables, the latter VPM-B.
I don't think either would nail you down on the computer's
algorithm during the mix class, though.

DaveC · 14th March 2005, 22:00

I'll be doing my course through a company up here called Repreathers Inc..... Instructors name is Dale, whom I've taken courses through before.

Actually you may know his partner, Dan Smith...

Helium_diver · 14th March 2005, 23:43

Hi.

hope you enjoy your stay

Helium_diver

ROB DAVIE · 15th March 2005, 01:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by DaveC)

I start my CCR training in May on the Topaz and hope to have my unit at the latest in July sometime. Or sooner if the gods feel I deserve it.

You'll probably be driven nuts with some of my questions and you'll have to excuse me if they're lame. While I'm waiting for my training and such, I've been playing around with the software trying to figure out tables and such and as I currently use V-Planner, I just downloaded GAP to give a comparison for the RGBM side of things. I'm also currently trying to decide which computer I should go with - Explorer or the VR3. I've heard good things about both but just don't know... if anyone out there has advice, I'm always willing to listen.

Dave

Dave,

First, a great big "Howdy! Welcome aboard what is a fixin' to be the BIGGEST event in re-breather communication sites ever!"

Second, there are no such things as "lame questions" if the person asking the questions has an honest desire to gain information. There are, however, foolish or fatuous answers, but we will TRY to stay away from such on this Board.

Third, I congratulate you on joining the ranks of re-breather divers. As you may have figured out, we are somewhat different creatures.

You have chosen an excellent unit to dive. You have, on this Board, one of the premier students of the device in the person of Stefan Besier (a.k.a. Caveseeker7). If he does not know the answers to your questions, he has the most excellent contacts at the SMI factory, and should be able to obtain information to enlighten us all.

Again, welcome, and happy bubble-less diving!

Sincerely,

Rob Davie

Pelagian · 17th March 2005, 18:19

Quote: (Originally Posted by DaveC)

You'll probably be driven nuts with some of my questions and you'll have to excuse me if they're lame. While I'm waiting for my training and such, I've been playing around with the software trying to figure out tables and such and as I currently use V-Planner, I just downloaded GAP to give a comparison for the RGBM side of things. I'm also currently trying to decide which computer I should go with - Explorer or the VR3. I've heard good things about both but just don't know... if anyone out there has advice, I'm always willing to listen.

I know that SMI is coming out with an integrated unit with the Prism, but there's been no release date and diving an OC computer kind of negates the fixed PP02's that the CCR has... So I'd like to come out of the gate with the correct tool. And yes I could cut a table and go with a BT, but with technology the way it is... that is a good backup option.
Dave

The only lame question is the one you don't ask that gets you killed.

Welcome to an open minded forum.

I chose the VR-3. It's the best computer when it works. There is admittedly no one I know who hasn't had to send it back at least once(mainly problems with the old buttons), but it's flexibilty is a huge boon.

I cut tables with a couple of bailout scenarios, and then bail out to the VR-3 only if I manage to cock up so bad that none of my bailouts will cover me.(hasn't happend yet)

When keving realese the his VPM algotithm for the VR-3, it'll just be the best.

As for the HS-explorer, i don't like the buttons or the size, and the RGBM's shallow stops have been a little too short for my taste, although I now understand that Wienke is asjusting the algorithm to change this.

Cheers

Seb

ROB DAVIE · 17th March 2005, 20:37

Dave C,

You originally asked about a computer to use for the style of diving that we, as re-breather creatures, will do. There are only two. One is the VR-3, and the other is the Hydro-Space Explorer. They are both excellent computers.

The reason that there are only two is that we have to have (if we care about redundancy) a computer that will act as a back-up to our main PPO2 control system, whatever that may be, in terms of a real-time, independent PPO2 read-out. Both of these computers offer the sensor link to a stand-alone O2 sensor which also allows real-time deco computation based on the changing fraction of inert gas. (Assuming, of course, that the user is diving a fully-closed CCR.)

Further, both of these computers offer multiple gas choices, and multiple adjustments to both gradient factors and “conservatism” factors.

From this point, there is some divergence. The H-S Explorer is slightly larger than the VR-3, and has a large, easily readable display. Its visual display is very intuitive, and easily understood. The operating buttons have been criticized by some, but one must understand that they were designed to be used by a diver wearing gloves.

It uses either the Wienke RGBM, or the Buhlmann model, and the user may switch between the two. This is, as far as I know, the only one with this capability. The bubble model, of course, is a more modern algorithm and is better suited to dealing with our friend, Helium. It is made in the USA, which is good for our European friends, but not so good for our Canadian friends.

The VR-3 is a solid technical diving computer, built in England, and has a good track record in the community. Its algorithm, at the moment, is Buhlmann-based, with “tweaks” installed by Kevin Gurr, the creator of the VR-3, to make it do what we want it to do. There is report of an up-coming release of VPM-B for it, but “no firm release date has been announced” as they say.

It does have a color screen-upgrade, and a tweak that provides larger numbers to make it easier to read. Both of these are available at a reasonable cost.

Either of these units would be a good choice for re-breather diving, especially using helium, and going deep. They are both quality pieces of equipment. Both companies are committed to customer support. You should endeavour to get hands-on with each, and see which one you favour.

(Note: In the interests of full-disclosure, I know the makers of both of these computers personally, and have nothing but the highest respect for them.)

Rob Davie

14th March 2005, 12:19	#1 (permalink)
DaveC New Member Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario. Canada Posts: 192	Howdy to all Howdy... (Said with the voice of Mini Perl) Just thought I'd introduce myself, Dave Clemmens from a small town in Ontario - Tottenham. Been diving since I was about 7 and got certified when I was 13. Didn't get TriMix certified until last year though and after seeing the costs involved decided to go to CCR. Haven't done a lot of dives in the mixed gas area, but the ones I've done I’ve really enjoyed. I start my CCR training in May on the Topaz and hope to have my unit at the latest in July sometime. Or sooner if the gods feel I deserve it. You'll probably be driven nuts with some of my questions and you'll have to excuse me if they're lame. While I'm waiting for my training and such, I've been playing around with the software trying to figure out tables and such and as I currently use V-Planner, I just downloaded GAP to give a comparison for the RGBM side of things. I'm also currently trying to decide which computer I should go with - Explorer or the VR3. I've heard good things about both but just don't know... if anyone out there has advice, I'm always willing to listen. I know that SMI is coming out with an integrated unit with the Prism, but there's been no release date and diving an OC computer kind of negates the fixed PP02's that the CCR has... So I'd like to come out of the gate with the correct tool. And yes I could cut a table and go with a BT, but with technology the way it is... that is a good backup option. Anyway, I'm sure I'll be talking to you all real soon. Dave
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14th March 2005, 12:33	#2 (permalink)
DoubleTop Rebreather World Greeter and How do I? Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Reading, Berks, UK Posts: 145	Welcome to Rebreather World Dave we all start somewhere, so post away, that's what the forums are all about DT.
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14th March 2005, 12:33	#3 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,662	to the board!! Hope we can all help you and each other :-) Stuart
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14th March 2005, 14:09	#4 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,168	Welcome aboard Dave. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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14th March 2005, 15:45	#5 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,325	Welcome Hi Dave, good to see you. Who will you be doing your training with? NAUI or IANTD? The former uses RGBM tables, the latter VPM-B. I don't think either would nail you down on the computer's algorithm during the mix class, though. __________________ Cheers Stefan "It is still a good day if you are on the green side of the grass! Su amigo Roberto!" Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
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14th March 2005, 22:00	#6 (permalink)
DaveC New Member Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario. Canada Posts: 192	I'll be doing my course through a company up here called Repreathers Inc..... Instructors name is Dale, whom I've taken courses through before. Actually you may know his partner, Dan Smith...
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14th March 2005, 23:43	#7 (permalink)
Helium_diver Has anyone seen my Gerbil Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Baltimore MD USA Posts: 150	Hi. hope you enjoy your stay Helium_diver
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15th March 2005, 01:18	#8 (permalink)
ROB DAVIE Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: HOUSTON, REPUBLIC OF TEJAS Posts: 1,120	Welcome Aboard Quote: (Originally Posted by DaveC) I start my CCR training in May on the Topaz and hope to have my unit at the latest in July sometime. Or sooner if the gods feel I deserve it. You'll probably be driven nuts with some of my questions and you'll have to excuse me if they're lame. While I'm waiting for my training and such, I've been playing around with the software trying to figure out tables and such and as I currently use V-Planner, I just downloaded GAP to give a comparison for the RGBM side of things. I'm also currently trying to decide which computer I should go with - Explorer or the VR3. I've heard good things about both but just don't know... if anyone out there has advice, I'm always willing to listen. Dave Dave, First, a great big "Howdy! Welcome aboard what is a fixin' to be the BIGGEST event in re-breather communication sites ever!" Second, there are no such things as "lame questions" if the person asking the questions has an honest desire to gain information. There are, however, foolish or fatuous answers, but we will TRY to stay away from such on this Board. Third, I congratulate you on joining the ranks of re-breather divers. As you may have figured out, we are somewhat different creatures. You have chosen an excellent unit to dive. You have, on this Board, one of the premier students of the device in the person of Stefan Besier (a.k.a. Caveseeker7). If he does not know the answers to your questions, he has the most excellent contacts at the SMI factory, and should be able to obtain information to enlighten us all. Again, welcome, and happy bubble-less diving! Sincerely, Rob Davie
(Offline)

17th March 2005, 18:19	#9 (permalink)
Pelagian Multi-Circuit Meg Monkey! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Optima Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 275	Qyestions Quote: (Originally Posted by DaveC) You'll probably be driven nuts with some of my questions and you'll have to excuse me if they're lame. While I'm waiting for my training and such, I've been playing around with the software trying to figure out tables and such and as I currently use V-Planner, I just downloaded GAP to give a comparison for the RGBM side of things. I'm also currently trying to decide which computer I should go with - Explorer or the VR3. I've heard good things about both but just don't know... if anyone out there has advice, I'm always willing to listen. I know that SMI is coming out with an integrated unit with the Prism, but there's been no release date and diving an OC computer kind of negates the fixed PP02's that the CCR has... So I'd like to come out of the gate with the correct tool. And yes I could cut a table and go with a BT, but with technology the way it is... that is a good backup option. Dave The only lame question is the one you don't ask that gets you killed. Welcome to an open minded forum. I chose the VR-3. It's the best computer when it works. There is admittedly no one I know who hasn't had to send it back at least once(mainly problems with the old buttons), but it's flexibilty is a huge boon. I cut tables with a couple of bailout scenarios, and then bail out to the VR-3 only if I manage to cock up so bad that none of my bailouts will cover me.(hasn't happend yet) When keving realese the his VPM algotithm for the VR-3, it'll just be the best. As for the HS-explorer, i don't like the buttons or the size, and the RGBM's shallow stops have been a little too short for my taste, although I now understand that Wienke is asjusting the algorithm to change this. Cheers Seb
(Offline)

17th March 2005, 20:37	#10 (permalink)
ROB DAVIE Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: HOUSTON, REPUBLIC OF TEJAS Posts: 1,120	Which computer? Dave C, You originally asked about a computer to use for the style of diving that we, as re-breather creatures, will do. There are only two. One is the VR-3, and the other is the Hydro-Space Explorer. They are both excellent computers. The reason that there are only two is that we have to have (if we care about redundancy) a computer that will act as a back-up to our main PPO2 control system, whatever that may be, in terms of a real-time, independent PPO2 read-out. Both of these computers offer the sensor link to a stand-alone O2 sensor which also allows real-time deco computation based on the changing fraction of inert gas. (Assuming, of course, that the user is diving a fully-closed CCR.) Further, both of these computers offer multiple gas choices, and multiple adjustments to both gradient factors and “conservatism” factors. From this point, there is some divergence. The H-S Explorer is slightly larger than the VR-3, and has a large, easily readable display. Its visual display is very intuitive, and easily understood. The operating buttons have been criticized by some, but one must understand that they were designed to be used by a diver wearing gloves. It uses either the Wienke RGBM, or the Buhlmann model, and the user may switch between the two. This is, as far as I know, the only one with this capability. The bubble model, of course, is a more modern algorithm and is better suited to dealing with our friend, Helium. It is made in the USA, which is good for our European friends, but not so good for our Canadian friends. The VR-3 is a solid technical diving computer, built in England, and has a good track record in the community. Its algorithm, at the moment, is Buhlmann-based, with “tweaks” installed by Kevin Gurr, the creator of the VR-3, to make it do what we want it to do. There is report of an up-coming release of VPM-B for it, but “no firm release date has been announced” as they say. It does have a color screen-upgrade, and a tweak that provides larger numbers to make it easier to read. Both of these are available at a reasonable cost. Either of these units would be a good choice for re-breather diving, especially using helium, and going deep. They are both quality pieces of equipment. Both companies are committed to customer support. You should endeavour to get hands-on with each, and see which one you favour. (Note: In the interests of full-disclosure, I know the makers of both of these computers personally, and have nothing but the highest respect for them.) Rob Davie __________________ [SIZE=2]"CC Rebreathers will become a viable part of tech diving [U]WHEN PIGS FLY[/U]!!"--GI3[/SIZE]
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