Megaladon Versus Optima Fx

decoweenie · 22nd January 2008, 08:20

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tienuts)

...But it seems the ones who speak loudest aginst the EAC are the ones who know little about them.

But you could also turn that statement around to...

...it seems the ones who speak loudest for the EAC are the ones who know little about granular sorb...

Hanssing · 22nd January 2008, 08:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tienuts)

I love the convenience of it, and the ability to do a post dive analysis on it. I can determine exactly where the reaction front ended, and how much I used up. So Dive Rite rates it for 3 hours - in todays litigious society, this is them being careful. Yes I can safely get 6 hours from my EAC in warm water, and I know this for certain, without any risk. How? Cause I can examine the cartridge post-dive and see that after 6 hours, I have used 2/3 rds of it. Should I do some cold water diving, I will go back to 2-3 hours on it, and gradually build up time and see how much I am using.

Please note that I'm a newbie, and really do not have enough experience so take my ramblings below in this light:

I really would adwise against using this postdive analysis as a singular mean of gauging the amount used, and especially the time left unless you feel certain that:
a) You know how far the reactionfront exstends when hitting maximum SAC/workrate at depth.
b) You are sure that what you are separating the used from the completely unused part of the EAC, when taking it apart.

My worry is that people can indvertently be confident that they have plently left, because when they exit the water, and do a postdive analysis of their scrubber (both EAC and granular) they are looking at a usage-pattern with is optimal - ie. low SAC, low workload, and low depth. This would indicate that they are looking and a "reaction"-front wich is at its smallest possible dimension, therefor does not give a true picture of the workign scrubber at depht - wich is whats needed.
sadly we dont really have the means to take the scrubber apart at depth do we?
For depth emergencies the CE-testing gives an indication - wich is currently the best we can do until the holy grail (premtive CO2-monitor) becomes standard equipment.

The EAC has a rumor of performing poorly at high SAC-rates, but apparently great at lower - this I would normally interpret as meaning that the scrubber needs to have plenty in reserve in order to handle an emergency at depth, otherwise you risk a breakthrough.
I'm sure you leave plenty of unsed material - but is it enough?

If one buys an optima, and are willing to pay the premium of the EACs, then why push the beyound the rating?

Regards
Nicolai Hanssing

PS: IF you're a tightward like me and want to have safe sorb-usage you should buy a Rebreather with serial scrubbers

***caveseeker7*** · 22nd January 2008, 08:49

All this discussion about the EAC is fine and jolly, but it doesn't change the reality of either their availability or their price.

The OP came from Iceland, and I gather there aren't too many Micropore dealers and the cartridges are likely going to be quite expensive.

The German Dive Rite distributor is supposed to have an Optima at the booth. I'll check it out, and see how much he wants for the Rebreather and the cartridges. If you can get them for cheap, I'll happily report that back, though I have my doubts.

A little hint: The 905 dry suit, black and rear entry, sells for about $1600, plus whatever the local sales tax in FL is, so probably around $1750 including tax, right?

The same suit costs about €2,400 including tax!

That's almost $3,500!!!

How many of you in the US would pay that much for that suit?
Anyone yelling "Here!" put the money where your mouth is and transfer the difference to my account.

Barfab · 22nd January 2008, 10:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tienuts)

It amazes me how the non-EAC users still kill the EAC. The Meg is an awesome, solid unit. If I ever get a second unit, it will be a Meg.

When I made my initial CCR purchase, I went with the Optima for a number of reasons, but mostly my deciding factor was the EAC. I love the convenience of it, and the ability to do a post dive analysis on it. I can determine exactly where the reaction front ended, and how much I used up. So Dive Rite rates it for 3 hours - in todays litigious society, this is them being careful. Yes I can safely get 6 hours from my EAC in warm water, and I know this for certain, without any risk. How? Cause I can examine the cartridge post-dive and see that after 6 hours, I have used 2/3 rds of it. Should I do some cold water diving, I will go back to 2-3 hours on it, and gradually build up time and see how much I am using.

Yes, I am lucky enough to live in So FLa, and have easy access to extendair. If I go somewhere remote, I will ship some to my destination. Problem solved.

Now I will get flamed by every granular sorb user, about how I have never packed a canister, and how I know nothing. Yes yes, bring it on. But it seems the ones who speak loudest aginst the EAC are the ones who know little about them.

Ofcourse EAC is wonderful and is available for MEG too, but:
I haven't understood how you can check the EAC usage, because there's the reaction zone that you cannot know.
Be careful!

***caveseeker7*** · 22nd January 2008, 11:08

For the Meg it's different than the Optima, it's not a Micropore scrubber.
Performance is different from what I understand.

Shouldn't be a problem getting Meg - Micropore feedback, several of the
people using that setup for "The Cave" movie are on RBW. From what
I gather few use the cartridge, most use granules. Go figure.

Am curious to see ratings for the Sentinel and MK-VI, as both are supposed
to be offered with cartridges and granular absorbent. If the previous tests
from C2R are any indication, the Sentinel with the cartridge will get nowhere
near the duration it gets from axial scrubber. Which has been outstanding,
while the Optima didn't do so well IIRC.

All of which irrelevant if the customer can't get the damned things in the first place.

jiseson · 22nd January 2008, 11:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by Barfab)

Ofcourse EAC is wonderful and is available for MEG too, but:
I haven't understood how you can check the EAC usage, because there's the reaction zone that you cannot know.
Be careful!

u unroll it and u can see what was used and what was n't-u can see if it is shaped ...

Barfab · 22nd January 2008, 12:40

Quote: (Originally Posted by jiseson)

u unroll it and u can see what was used and what was n't-u can see if it is shaped ...

You don't know how the scrubber works: there's the reaction zone!
In the reaction zone ther's CO2, as soon as the reaction zone reaches the end of the scrubber CO2 will come into the loop, also if the chemical of the reaction zone is still efficient!

diverklondike · 22nd January 2008, 13:30

From Decoweenie Post - Re: Megaladon Versus Optima Fx
Quote: (Originally Posted by Tienuts)

...But it seems the ones who speak loudest aginst the EAC are the ones who know little about them.
But you could also turn that statement around to...

...it seems the ones who speak loudest for the EAC are the ones who know little about granular sorb...

__________________
"...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..."

- Rebreather World PM
************************************************** *********

Phi-

I think your signature line combined with the rest of your post says it all....

Look folks... Both units are viable products and approaches... Lots of Megs have been sold... Lots of Optima's have been sold... People push the MFG suggested scrubber durations on both... It gets to be a bit painful constantly reading beating of the

to make themselves feel better. I have seen several comments that come just short of saying "your stupid" for deciding to buy the rebreather that you did. There is no need for that here.

So... Let's get over it and back on topic....

Best Regards,

Mark

Barfab · 22nd January 2008, 13:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb)

In my view the only "New Feature" that would be meaningful would be a CO2 monitor. All of the top units function in pretty much the same manner. Making a rebreather isn't exactly rocket science. Most of the mCCR's are pretty much the same as are the eCCR's as far as function is concerned.

Designs vary as far as lung placement & materials. Valves & tank types vary, frame designs vary, but basically all function in pretty much the same fashion. Whether you use an EAC or Sorb, they both scrub CO2. Changes are pretty much evolutionary as far as I can see, not revolutionary. If one guy can add something to their line up that works due to design & price point.... More power to them. Dive-Rite has done just that with the O2ptima. Will it take over the market? Of course not. Will it survive and grow. I'm sure it will... Until someone comes out with something truly revolutionary. Like a unit that weighs 40 pounds, costs under $5,000.00 and includes all the bells & whistles and then some.... But until then no one unit is going to dominate the marketplace, especially here in the US.

Just because you may think that say BMW's are the best cars in the Marketplace doesn't mean that others won't think the same thing about Toyota's or Acura's or Lexus or whatever. They all sell & there is a market for all. Same thing with Breathers... If a unit or manufacturer really sucks, then it won't take long for the market to figure it out and it will be gone.

Richie

Anyway I've seen that cost far over than 5000 USD

FergusButler · 22nd January 2008, 15:31

I have an Optima Fx and obviously the Rebreather you've spend at a minimum $9000 is the best one. Regarding the Optima the service from DiveRite and store like DiveRite Express is excellent. Rebreather express by Diverite express include shipping over sea's so they would be worth checking out. The Unit itself performs well, and comes with the Hammer Head electronic's. The Cartridge is pretty easy to instal and you don't have issues such as channelling as with packing a scrubber. I mount mine to a steel back plate so I don't have issues with tanks hurting my back. Mind you I have crossed over from OC Tec where I used double steel 130's so tank's are a non issue. either way CCR is definitly the way to go. Good Luck

22nd January 2008, 08:20	#81 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: Megaladon Versus Optima Fx Quote: (Originally Posted by Tienuts) ...But it seems the ones who speak loudest aginst the EAC are the ones who know little about them. But you could also turn that statement around to... ...it seems the ones who speak loudest for the EAC are the ones who know little about granular sorb... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
(Offline)

22nd January 2008, 08:36	#82 (permalink)
Hanssing flap-flop ..... flap-flop Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 430	Re: Megaladon Versus Optima Fx Quote: (Originally Posted by Tienuts) I love the convenience of it, and the ability to do a post dive analysis on it. I can determine exactly where the reaction front ended, and how much I used up. So Dive Rite rates it for 3 hours - in todays litigious society, this is them being careful. Yes I can safely get 6 hours from my EAC in warm water, and I know this for certain, without any risk. How? Cause I can examine the cartridge post-dive and see that after 6 hours, I have used 2/3 rds of it. Should I do some cold water diving, I will go back to 2-3 hours on it, and gradually build up time and see how much I am using. Please note that I'm a newbie, and really do not have enough experience so take my ramblings below in this light: I really would adwise against using this postdive analysis as a singular mean of gauging the amount used, and especially the time left unless you feel certain that: a) You know how far the reactionfront exstends when hitting maximum SAC/workrate at depth. b) You are sure that what you are separating the used from the completely unused part of the EAC, when taking it apart. My worry is that people can indvertently be confident that they have plently left, because when they exit the water, and do a postdive analysis of their scrubber (both EAC and granular) they are looking at a usage-pattern with is optimal - ie. low SAC, low workload, and low depth. This would indicate that they are looking and a "reaction"-front wich is at its smallest possible dimension, therefor does not give a true picture of the workign scrubber at depht - wich is whats needed. sadly we dont really have the means to take the scrubber apart at depth do we? For depth emergencies the CE-testing gives an indication - wich is currently the best we can do until the holy grail (premtive CO2-monitor) becomes standard equipment. The EAC has a rumor of performing poorly at high SAC-rates, but apparently great at lower - this I would normally interpret as meaning that the scrubber needs to have plenty in reserve in order to handle an emergency at depth, otherwise you risk a breakthrough. I'm sure you leave plenty of unsed material - but is it enough? If one buys an optima, and are willing to pay the premium of the EACs, then why push the beyound the rating? Regards Nicolai Hanssing PS: IF you're a tightward like me and want to have safe sorb-usage you should buy a Rebreather with serial scrubbers __________________ Woohooo - I can change my rEvo! Its going to be bitchin' tricked out piece of gear Last edited by Hanssing : 22nd January 2008 at 08:41. Reason: Spelling
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22nd January 2008, 08:49	#83 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,535	Re: Megaladon Versus Optima Fx All this discussion about the EAC is fine and jolly, but it doesn't change the reality of either their availability or their price. The OP came from Iceland, and I gather there aren't too many Micropore dealers and the cartridges are likely going to be quite expensive. The German Dive Rite distributor is supposed to have an Optima at the booth. I'll check it out, and see how much he wants for the Rebreather and the cartridges. If you can get them for cheap, I'll happily report that back, though I have my doubts. A little hint: The 905 dry suit, black and rear entry, sells for about $1600, plus whatever the local sales tax in FL is, so probably around $1750 including tax, right? The same suit costs about €2,400 including tax! That's almost $3,500!!! How many of you in the US would pay that much for that suit? Anyone yelling "Here!" put the money where your mouth is and transfer the difference to my account. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!" Last edited by caveseeker7 : 22nd January 2008 at 08:54.
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22nd January 2008, 10:52	#84 (permalink)
Barfab New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Ouroboros Ray Azimuth Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Ray Azimuth Other SCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 60	Re: Megaladon Versus Optima Fx Quote: (Originally Posted by Tienuts) It amazes me how the non-EAC users still kill the EAC. The Meg is an awesome, solid unit. If I ever get a second unit, it will be a Meg. When I made my initial CCR purchase, I went with the Optima for a number of reasons, but mostly my deciding factor was the EAC. I love the convenience of it, and the ability to do a post dive analysis on it. I can determine exactly where the reaction front ended, and how much I used up. So Dive Rite rates it for 3 hours - in todays litigious society, this is them being careful. Yes I can safely get 6 hours from my EAC in warm water, and I know this for certain, without any risk. How? Cause I can examine the cartridge post-dive and see that after 6 hours, I have used 2/3 rds of it. Should I do some cold water diving, I will go back to 2-3 hours on it, and gradually build up time and see how much I am using. Yes, I am lucky enough to live in So FLa, and have easy access to extendair. If I go somewhere remote, I will ship some to my destination. Problem solved. Now I will get flamed by every granular sorb user, about how I have never packed a canister, and how I know nothing. Yes yes, bring it on. But it seems the ones who speak loudest aginst the EAC are the ones who know little about them. Ofcourse EAC is wonderful and is available for MEG too, but: I haven't understood how you can check the EAC usage, because there's the reaction zone that you cannot know. Be careful! __________________ World is a....Rebreather!
(Offline)

22nd January 2008, 11:08	#85 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,535	Re: Megaladon Versus Optima Fx For the Meg it's different than the Optima, it's not a Micropore scrubber. Performance is different from what I understand. Shouldn't be a problem getting Meg - Micropore feedback, several of the people using that setup for "The Cave" movie are on RBW. From what I gather few use the cartridge, most use granules. Go figure. Am curious to see ratings for the Sentinel and MK-VI, as both are supposed to be offered with cartridges and granular absorbent. If the previous tests from C2R are any indication, the Sentinel with the cartridge will get nowhere near the duration it gets from axial scrubber. Which has been outstanding, while the Optima didn't do so well IIRC. All of which irrelevant if the customer can't get the damned things in the first place. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
(Offline)

22nd January 2008, 11:48	#86 (permalink)
jiseson DSIX/O2PTIMA Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: long island,ny Posts: 615	Re: Megaladon Versus Optima Fx Quote: (Originally Posted by Barfab) Ofcourse EAC is wonderful and is available for MEG too, but: I haven't understood how you can check the EAC usage, because there's the reaction zone that you cannot know. Be careful! u unroll it and u can see what was used and what was n't-u can see if it is shaped ... __________________ *Jonathan D Iseson*
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22nd January 2008, 12:40	#87 (permalink)
Barfab New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Ouroboros Ray Azimuth Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Ray Azimuth Other SCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 60	Re: Megaladon Versus Optima Fx Quote: (Originally Posted by jiseson) u unroll it and u can see what was used and what was n't-u can see if it is shaped ... You don't know how the scrubber works: there's the reaction zone! In the reaction zone ther's CO2, as soon as the reaction zone reaches the end of the scrubber CO2 will come into the loop, also if the chemical of the reaction zone is still efficient! __________________ World is a....Rebreather! Last edited by Barfab : 22nd January 2008 at 15:52.
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22nd January 2008, 13:30	#88 (permalink)
diverklondike RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 1,700	Re: Megaladon Versus Optima Fx From Decoweenie Post - Re: Megaladon Versus Optima Fx Quote: (Originally Posted by Tienuts) ...But it seems the ones who speak loudest aginst the EAC are the ones who know little about them. But you could also turn that statement around to... ...it seems the ones who speak loudest for the EAC are the ones who know little about granular sorb... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM ************************************************ ******* Phi- I think your signature line combined with the rest of your post says it all.... Look folks... Both units are viable products and approaches... Lots of Megs have been sold... Lots of Optima's have been sold... People push the MFG suggested scrubber durations on both... It gets to be a bit painful constantly reading beating of the to make themselves feel better. I have seen several comments that come just short of saying "your stupid" for deciding to buy the rebreather that you did. There is no need for that here. So... Let's get over it and back on topic.... Best Regards, Mark
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22nd January 2008, 13:47	#89 (permalink)
Barfab New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Ouroboros Ray Azimuth Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Ray Azimuth Other SCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 60	Re: Megaladon Versus Optima Fx Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb) In my view the only "New Feature" that would be meaningful would be a CO2 monitor. All of the top units function in pretty much the same manner. Making a rebreather isn't exactly rocket science. Most of the mCCR's are pretty much the same as are the eCCR's as far as function is concerned. Designs vary as far as lung placement & materials. Valves & tank types vary, frame designs vary, but basically all function in pretty much the same fashion. Whether you use an EAC or Sorb, they both scrub CO2. Changes are pretty much evolutionary as far as I can see, not revolutionary. If one guy can add something to their line up that works due to design & price point.... More power to them. Dive-Rite has done just that with the O2ptima. Will it take over the market? Of course not. Will it survive and grow. I'm sure it will... Until someone comes out with something truly revolutionary. Like a unit that weighs 40 pounds, costs under $5,000.00 and includes all the bells & whistles and then some.... But until then no one unit is going to dominate the marketplace, especially here in the US. Just because you may think that say BMW's are the best cars in the Marketplace doesn't mean that others won't think the same thing about Toyota's or Acura's or Lexus or whatever. They all sell & there is a market for all. Same thing with Breathers... If a unit or manufacturer really sucks, then it won't take long for the market to figure it out and it will be gone. Richie Anyway I've seen that cost far over than 5000 USD __________________ World is a....Rebreather!
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22nd January 2008, 15:31	#90 (permalink)
FergusButler RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Richmond Virginia USA Posts: 35	Re: Megaladon Versus Optima Fx I have an Optima Fx and obviously the Rebreather you've spend at a minimum $9000 is the best one. Regarding the Optima the service from DiveRite and store like DiveRite Express is excellent. Rebreather express by Diverite express include shipping over sea's so they would be worth checking out. The Unit itself performs well, and comes with the Hammer Head electronic's. The Cartridge is pretty easy to instal and you don't have issues such as channelling as with packing a scrubber. I mount mine to a steel back plate so I don't have issues with tanks hurting my back. Mind you I have crossed over from OC Tec where I used double steel 130's so tank's are a non issue. either way CCR is definitly the way to go. Good Luck
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