Megaladon Versus Optima Fx

brandonmc · 25th January 2008, 17:03

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb)

You are correct... An over reach on my part to say never, but I stand by the assertion that it would be very likely that the incident wouldn't have happened.

The Diva is driven by the battery on the secondary handset. As far as battery issues are concerned, if you change AA's every time you change the cartridge, or as I do on a daily basis, you will never... OK OK, it would be very unlikely that there would be any battery issues.

Unfortunately people end up doing very stupid things on a fairly regular basis..... With rebreathers it can end very badly.... The buzzing Diva is just one more tool to help get you out of a bad situation.

Of course you can't depend 100% on anything, including electronics, manual valves, regulators, etc. But having additional tools in the arsenal can be very helpful.

Richie

Richie,

I agree that the DIVA is more likely to ALERT you to the problem but this still requires appropriate ACTION to remedy the problem. Which in this or any case there is no reason to assume that (correct) action will be taken. FWIW both the Meg and HH will TRY to inject to O2 regardless of SP, manual setting, etc if the PPO2 drops below ~0.21. If the O2 is off there is not much any unit can do besides alert you (in the case of the HH), which I do agree is a good thing.

As to Meg vs. Optima... I dont think it is a question of which is better. I think it is more a question of which suits you and your diving needs better.

my 2 cents...

diverreb · 25th January 2008, 17:30

Quote: (Originally Posted by brandonmc)

Richie,

As to Meg vs. Optima... I dont think it is a question of which is better. I think it is more a question of which suits you and your diving needs better.

my 2 cents...

Brandon,

It's obvious you just don't get it..... A statement like that makes total sense and is one that I and most of the sane members of this forum totally agree with. That however, is contrary to the first rule of Rebreathers that states "Mine is superior to yours." We all need to know who your instructor was because he/she obviously didn't teach you well!

But then again anyone who dives in Quarry with air temps in the mid to low twenties (F) can't be expected to know all the rules!

Richie

brandonmc · 25th January 2008, 17:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb)

Brandon,

It's obvious you just don't get it..... A statement like that makes total sense and is one that I and most of the sane members of this forum totally agree with. That however, is contrary to the first rule of Rebreathers that states "Mine is superior to yours." We all need to know who your instructor was because he/she obviously didn't teach you well!

But then again anyone who dives in Quarry with air temps in the mid to low twenties (F) can't be expected to know all the rules!

Richie

If I told you who my instructor was you'd really be scared as to how much I just don't get it

Looks like I need some remedial dick swinging lessons

Tienuts · 25th January 2008, 17:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36)

Come on guys!

The thread is Meg vs. Optima NOT Sorb vs. EAC

Lets move on to other aspects of each unit. I think the OP can figure out which scrubber to use by now.

Don,

I would say since the scrubber is a key part of each unit, an EAC vs Sorb discussion is very valid indeed. How many people have you heard on this board say - "The Optima wasn't an option cause you can't use sorb," or "I bought my Optima because of the EAC."

Quote: (Originally Posted by brandonmc)

Richie,

I agree that the DIVA is more likely to ALERT you to the problem but this still requires appropriate ACTION to remedy the problem.

my 2 cents...

I would agree with this. Quick story - right after class, I was doing a dive with my girlfriend. Following a surface interval, I had finished my pre-breath checklist, and was on the loop on the boat. My girlfriend had a gear issue, and I began to help her. What I didn't realize, was my O2 valve had rolled off, and caused my PO2 to drop below .19. After a few minutes of me helping her, the HUD went off and scared the hell out of me. It vibrated my DSV, my mask - I felt my teeth chattering together.

The vibrating HUD is not foolproof, but you would have to be unconscious not to notice it go off. Minimum, it could give you the few seconds needed to bail out.

CCR-Wrecker · 25th January 2008, 19:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb)

Go read the the "Meg Diver Pool Incident" and tell me again how the Meg Electronics are better than the HH Electronics on the Optima....

If the PO2 gets to .19 on the HH the Diva is vibrating & buzzing. It's very hard not to notice. That incident would have never happened with HH electronics.

Richie

nevermind

Andy

JCdesign97 · 25th January 2008, 19:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tienuts)

How many people have you heard on this board say - "The Optima wasn't an option cause you can't use sorb," or "I bought my Optima because of the EAC."

Not sure I agree with you, Tony - I bought my Optima because it goes with the color of my fins ...

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tienuts)

Quick story - right after class, I was doing a dive with my girlfriend. Following a surface interval, I had finished my pre-breath checklist, and was on the loop on the boat. My girlfriend had a gear issue, and I began to help her. What I didn't realize, was my O2 valve had rolled off, and caused my PO2 to drop below .19. After a few minutes of me helping her, the HUD went off and scared the hell out of me. It vibrated my DSV, my mask - I felt my teeth chattering together.

The vibrating HUD is not foolproof, but you would have to be unconscious not to notice it go off. Minimum, it could give you the few seconds needed to bail out.

Of course I agree and love the fact that the HH will A) fire the solenoid even in OC mode if it sees the PO2 drop below 0.19 and B) the DIVA will be going crazy trying to alert you to same. But just playing devil's advocate, even this can be defeated pretty easily - how many minutes do you have your 'sleep mode' set for? Someone I know (initials Yours Truly) once started his pre-dive, got sidetracked and didn't remember shutting off his tanks during the surface interval, finished his checks and then walked down to the water. Like Stuart, didn't feel right putting on his fins standing in 3 feet of water and immediately looked to find that his handsets had gone back to sleep; turned them back on and spit out the DSV as soon as he saw PO2s below 0.19, felt the alarm and simultaneously wondered why in the hell the solenoid wasn't firing - then remembered the valves ...

So just to keep myself in Richie and Brandon's sane camp, the moral of the story is yes, every tool you can add to the arsenal is great ... as long as the tool doing the diving doesn't manage to ignore or defeat them!

jkaterenchuk · 25th January 2008, 19:57

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb)

You are correct...
The Diva is driven by the battery on the secondary handset. As far as battery issues are concerned, if you change AA's every time you change the cartridge, or as I do on a daily basis, you will never... OK OK, it would be very unlikely that there would be any battery issues.

Richie

I had a issue with the HH in Thailand last month. 80F water. Brand new Lithium AA's. First dive 1 hour was fine. Came back to do the second dive after a 90 minute surface interval and the handset was dead. Had to change the batteries. I have followed the change every scrubber routine so I was somewhat surprized when they died so quickly and in warm temps.

So call me Mr Unlikely!

John

diverreb · 25th January 2008, 20:09

Quote: (Originally Posted by JonnyB)

This is one of the most dangerous things i have heard in a long time.

/Jonny

Apparently you don't listen to most of the speeches given by our beloved President Bush! He's always ready to start another invasion.....

Thankfully he's a lame duck now and hopefully won't get us in any more trouble......

Richie

brandonmc · 25th January 2008, 20:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk)

Richie

I had a issue with the HH in Thailand last month. 80F water. Brand new Lithium AA's. First dive 1 hour was fine. Came back to do the second dive after a 90 minute surface interval and the handset was dead. Had to change the batteries. I have followed the change every scrubber routine so I was somewhat surprized when they died so quickly and in warm temps.

So call me Mr Unlikely!

John

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb)

Brandon,

It's obvious you just don't get it..... A statement like that makes total sense and is one that I and most of the sane members of this forum totally agree with. That however, is contrary to the first rule of Rebreathers that states "Mine is superior to yours." We all need to know who your instructor was because he/she obviously didn't teach you well!

Richie

The Meg never would have had this problem!!

JCdesign97 · 25th January 2008, 20:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by brandonmc)

The Meg never would have had this problem!!

Not with the empty can in your basement and the head back at ISC, no I imagine it wouldn't ...

25th January 2008, 17:03	#111 (permalink)
brandonmc is awesome Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 114	Re: Megaladon Versus Optima Fx Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb) You are correct... An over reach on my part to say never, but I stand by the assertion that it would be very likely that the incident wouldn't have happened. The Diva is driven by the battery on the secondary handset. As far as battery issues are concerned, if you change AA's every time you change the cartridge, or as I do on a daily basis, you will never... OK OK, it would be very unlikely that there would be any battery issues. Unfortunately people end up doing very stupid things on a fairly regular basis..... With rebreathers it can end very badly.... The buzzing Diva is just one more tool to help get you out of a bad situation. Of course you can't depend 100% on anything, including electronics, manual valves, regulators, etc. But having additional tools in the arsenal can be very helpful. Richie Richie, I agree that the DIVA is more likely to ALERT you to the problem but this still requires appropriate ACTION to remedy the problem. Which in this or any case there is no reason to assume that (correct) action will be taken. FWIW both the Meg and HH will TRY to inject to O2 regardless of SP, manual setting, etc if the PPO2 drops below ~0.21. If the O2 is off there is not much any unit can do besides alert you (in the case of the HH), which I do agree is a good thing. As to Meg vs. Optima... I dont think it is a question of which is better. I think it is more a question of which suits you and your diving needs better. my 2 cents... __________________ http://www.downtoolong.com/
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25th January 2008, 17:30	#112 (permalink)
diverreb DE/MD/NJ Wreck Diver Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Dover, DE Posts: 672	Re: Megaladon Versus Optima Fx Quote: (Originally Posted by brandonmc) Richie, As to Meg vs. Optima... I dont think it is a question of which is better. I think it is more a question of which suits you and your diving needs better. my 2 cents... Brandon, It's obvious you just don't get it..... A statement like that makes total sense and is one that I and most of the sane members of this forum totally agree with. That however, is contrary to the first rule of Rebreathers that states "Mine is superior to yours." We all need to know who your instructor was because he/she obviously didn't teach you well! But then again anyone who dives in Quarry with air temps in the mid to low twenties (F) can't be expected to know all the rules! Richie Last edited by diverreb : 25th January 2008 at 17:32.
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25th January 2008, 17:38	#113 (permalink)
brandonmc is awesome Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 114	Re: Megaladon Versus Optima Fx Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb) Brandon, It's obvious you just don't get it..... A statement like that makes total sense and is one that I and most of the sane members of this forum totally agree with. That however, is contrary to the first rule of Rebreathers that states "Mine is superior to yours." We all need to know who your instructor was because he/she obviously didn't teach you well! But then again anyone who dives in Quarry with air temps in the mid to low twenties (F) can't be expected to know all the rules! Richie If I told you who my instructor was you'd really be scared as to how much I just don't get it Looks like I need some remedial dick swinging lessons __________________ http://www.downtoolong.com/
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25th January 2008, 17:45	#114 (permalink)
Tienuts Chief Prankster Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 299	Re: Megaladon Versus Optima Fx Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36) Come on guys! The thread is Meg vs. Optima NOT Sorb vs. EAC Lets move on to other aspects of each unit. I think the OP can figure out which scrubber to use by now. Don, I would say since the scrubber is a key part of each unit, an EAC vs Sorb discussion is very valid indeed. How many people have you heard on this board say - "The Optima wasn't an option cause you can't use sorb," or "I bought my Optima because of the EAC." Quote: (Originally Posted by brandonmc) Richie, I agree that the DIVA is more likely to ALERT you to the problem but this still requires appropriate ACTION to remedy the problem. my 2 cents... I would agree with this. Quick story - right after class, I was doing a dive with my girlfriend. Following a surface interval, I had finished my pre-breath checklist, and was on the loop on the boat. My girlfriend had a gear issue, and I began to help her. What I didn't realize, was my O2 valve had rolled off, and caused my PO2 to drop below .19. After a few minutes of me helping her, the HUD went off and scared the hell out of me. It vibrated my DSV, my mask - I felt my teeth chattering together. The vibrating HUD is not foolproof, but you would have to be unconscious not to notice it go off. Minimum, it could give you the few seconds needed to bail out. Last edited by Tienuts : 25th January 2008 at 17:54.
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25th January 2008, 19:29	#115 (permalink)
CCR-Wrecker aka NY-Andy Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New York Posts: 228	Re: Megaladon Versus Optima Fx Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb) Go read the the "Meg Diver Pool Incident" and tell me again how the Meg Electronics are better than the HH Electronics on the Optima.... If the PO2 gets to .19 on the HH the Diva is vibrating & buzzing. It's very hard not to notice. That incident would have never happened with HH electronics. Richie nevermind Andy __________________ "I know what you'll find, it's in your mind, it's what you want to see..." Ozzy Last edited by CCR-Wrecker : 25th January 2008 at 19:33. Reason: post was made irrelevant, i type too slow
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25th January 2008, 19:36	#116 (permalink)
JCdesign97 RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: PA, USA Posts: 419	Re: Megaladon Versus Optima Fx Quote: (Originally Posted by Tienuts) How many people have you heard on this board say - "The Optima wasn't an option cause you can't use sorb," or "I bought my Optima because of the EAC." Not sure I agree with you, Tony - I bought my Optima because it goes with the color of my fins ... Quote: (Originally Posted by Tienuts) Quick story - right after class, I was doing a dive with my girlfriend. Following a surface interval, I had finished my pre-breath checklist, and was on the loop on the boat. My girlfriend had a gear issue, and I began to help her. What I didn't realize, was my O2 valve had rolled off, and caused my PO2 to drop below .19. After a few minutes of me helping her, the HUD went off and scared the hell out of me. It vibrated my DSV, my mask - I felt my teeth chattering together. The vibrating HUD is not foolproof, but you would have to be unconscious not to notice it go off. Minimum, it could give you the few seconds needed to bail out. Of course I agree and love the fact that the HH will A) fire the solenoid even in OC mode if it sees the PO2 drop below 0.19 and B) the DIVA will be going crazy trying to alert you to same. But just playing devil's advocate, even this can be defeated pretty easily - how many minutes do you have your 'sleep mode' set for? Someone I know (initials Yours Truly) once started his pre-dive, got sidetracked and didn't remember shutting off his tanks during the surface interval, finished his checks and then walked down to the water. Like Stuart, didn't feel right putting on his fins standing in 3 feet of water and immediately looked to find that his handsets had gone back to sleep; turned them back on and spit out the DSV as soon as he saw PO2s below 0.19, felt the alarm and simultaneously wondered why in the hell the solenoid wasn't firing - then remembered the valves ... So just to keep myself in Richie and Brandon's sane camp, the moral of the story is yes, every tool you can add to the arsenal is great ... as long as the tool doing the diving doesn't manage to ignore or defeat them! __________________ Cheers, John Cogan
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25th January 2008, 19:57	#117 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk . Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lititz, PA Posts: 1,100	Re: Megaladon Versus Optima Fx Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb) You are correct... The Diva is driven by the battery on the secondary handset. As far as battery issues are concerned, if you change AA's every time you change the cartridge, or as I do on a daily basis, you will never... OK OK, it would be very unlikely that there would be any battery issues. Richie I had a issue with the HH in Thailand last month. 80F water. Brand new Lithium AA's. First dive 1 hour was fine. Came back to do the second dive after a 90 minute surface interval and the handset was dead. Had to change the batteries. I have followed the change every scrubber routine so I was somewhat surprized when they died so quickly and in warm temps. So call me Mr Unlikely! John
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25th January 2008, 20:09	#118 (permalink)
diverreb DE/MD/NJ Wreck Diver Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Dover, DE Posts: 672	Re: Megaladon Versus Optima Fx Quote: (Originally Posted by JonnyB) This is one of the most dangerous things i have heard in a long time. /Jonny Apparently you don't listen to most of the speeches given by our beloved President Bush! He's always ready to start another invasion..... Thankfully he's a lame duck now and hopefully won't get us in any more trouble...... Richie
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25th January 2008, 20:12	#119 (permalink)
brandonmc is awesome Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 114	Re: Megaladon Versus Optima Fx Quote: (Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk) Richie I had a issue with the HH in Thailand last month. 80F water. Brand new Lithium AA's. First dive 1 hour was fine. Came back to do the second dive after a 90 minute surface interval and the handset was dead. Had to change the batteries. I have followed the change every scrubber routine so I was somewhat surprized when they died so quickly and in warm temps. So call me Mr Unlikely! John Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb) Brandon, It's obvious you just don't get it..... A statement like that makes total sense and is one that I and most of the sane members of this forum totally agree with. That however, is contrary to the first rule of Rebreathers that states "Mine is superior to yours." We all need to know who your instructor was because he/she obviously didn't teach you well! Richie The Meg never would have had this problem!! __________________ http://www.downtoolong.com/
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25th January 2008, 20:18	#120 (permalink)
JCdesign97 RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: PA, USA Posts: 419	Re: Megaladon Versus Optima Fx Quote: (Originally Posted by brandonmc) The Meg never would have had this problem!! Not with the empty can in your basement and the head back at ISC, no I imagine it wouldn't ... __________________ Cheers, John Cogan
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