hammer head (juergensen marine)

Philippe GERIN

You mean resolved as in... solved or agreement or problem solved? Let me think... Err... Nope! I haven't heard from the dude since August 2004. So nothing is resolved: he's got the goods and the $$. I have nothing. What can I compromise with?
Hell no!
Anyway, I don't want the HH now: If it had the slightest problem, I would probably have to wait till the could fly to get it solved considering the status of relationship now.
As far as the $$ is concerned? I pretty much resigned myself to forget about it and consider it a donation to Juergensen Marine for its altruism in the Rebreather industry.
I just want to put that behind me and enjoy Rebreather diving using stuff from the people who offer good service.

Yup, That's what I understand from the amount of PMs that I received since that thread was open.

I agree. That's why I tried to reach him for 11 months. I even seeked for councel/advice from a few people, some who know him and others before that day I got pissed off and responded to that thread.

But a good point came out of this: I now understand where/when a misunderstanding coul have appeared. See, nothing is a lost cause! Well, we could have resolved it if only we could have simply talked.
Bugger! I could have bought a booster with the $$!

That's all folks! I'm out of this thread. Over and out!
Best
Philippe

Andy

on a good note i dived my homebuild today for the first time with a kiss valve and hammer head and it worked great.

Andy

jradomski

There are TWO hangups right now for the Optima.. Kevin still does not have the wrist units from the machinist (first product to DR should be in about 2 weeks (or so) and second The part of the loop that is being made by micropore still hasent been delievered..

__________________
Joe Radomski
CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer
ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10

All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.

3mViz

And that's the whole problem with Mr. Juergensen, eh? If he doesn't like you as a customer, he just takes your money and your equipment and never says bugger all about it!

Just my .05 Cdn.

decoweenie

Stefan/Stuart,

Might I suggest to close this thread ?

So far it is mostly from one side of the story. If/when Kevin want to reply, you could re-open it for him to do so.

ROB DAVIE

Phi, et al,

As you can see, I am echoing what our founder, Stuart Ford, said earlier. We are pleased that this discussion has remained on a polite note, and we are determined that it should remain that way.

At this point, we are awaiting possible input from Kevin Juergensen, and it is our hope that he will weigh in to discuss the issues put forth by some of our posters, and talk about, as Stuart said: "the steps being taken to amicably resolve some of these outstanding problems."

Cheers!

__________________
"CC Rebreathers will become a viable part of tech diving WHEN PIGS FLY!!"--GI3

decoweenie

Rob,

If you are sensoring my post, then perhaps you should also consider about other posts as well that I personally found "offensive to RBW readers".

TechBlue

Phi,

The ball is in Kevin's court as it has been for quite a while for whatever reason he chooses to ignore requests for resolve is a mystery that only he knows the answer. Purely for PR a response should be forthcoming. Like Philippe I have resigned myself to the fact that I will be out of pocket $2,200 with, in my case a totally unusable unit and I echo Philippe again that regardless of the outcome I don't want a HH just my money back which I made clear to Kevin many times before he even shipped the pieces that I now have.
Unless I hear from Kevin I will also not be making any more posts on this thread as we all seem to be going around in circles.

__________________
Cheers,
Chris

www.tech-blue.com

The site dedicated to Rebreather and Technical diving
"We only sell what we dive"

decoweenie

Chris,

As said, it is Kevin's business with you and Philippe. I don't know any more than reading your sides and listening to Kevin's side of the story. And, as mentioned, I am sure the truth is somewhere in the middle.

I just post my own experience dealing with Kevin which went back a number of years to 1999. I wouldn't continue to deal with Kevin if he didn't deliver.

I do a lot of trading of diving gear with people all over the world for the last ~10 years, and I could count the bad experiences on 2-3 fingers. I guess how one carries himself will reflect a lot on how others treat him.

What bothers me are people with had no business with Kevin posting anonymously to try to stir things up.

Anyway, I agree that everything useful were already mentioned so just wait and see...

heyydude

Hey everyone,

I'm posting here because my friend Phi Le told me I should. I normally don't post publicly, since it takes up so much of my energy which lately has been devoted to finishing up the Optima build as well as all the other projects we have going.

The bottom line to you, Philippe, is that you got a perfectly good rig for what amounted to nearly 1/4 of Retail, and 1/2 what everyone else paid (when you factor in the 50% discount, the $400 credit for the HUD, and your subsequent SALE of that HUD to another diver), and were allowed to make payments to boot.

Not a bad deal, as anyone here who has purchased dive gear can probably attest.

Second: You got it, dove it, and tore it apart.

Forget the fact that you had parts made for me that I don't remember telling you to make - as I explained to you over the phone, I am PERFECTLY capable of making mistakes, especially when someone calls me 3000 times to talk about the same thing over and over and over. And in any event, I did PAY THAT BILL.

Ask Martin Parker to pay you for parts you make for him to use on the Inspiration, see how far you get. But hey, like I said, more than likely *I* could easily be guilty of making the mistake of going "uh-huh" when you told me you planned on spending my money on something I still do not use.

Again, I paid it rather than fight. My $$ on your KISS/HH was now down to what? $700?

So then, since you tore your unit apart, I had my employee, Ken, rebuild your unit COMPLETELY. How much is that worth? I dunno, because I didn't charge you a PENNY for it. Why? Because you called me 3,000 times.

BUT - when you told me that after all this, I OWED you the latest/greatest, state-of-the-art version of my product, I balked.

I sent you an e-mail where I asked you very nicely ("without any rancor" I wrote at the time) why you would expect me to do this, your sole answer was that you wanted it, and I was supposed to give it to you.

When I told you - "hey, I feed my kids off this business" you didn't care. You want what you want, and you don't want to pay for it. After years of being in this business, I recognize the type. I've got other people out there who are bad-mouthing me because I have, after giving and giving, set my heels in and said "no more."


As for Chris: I'm sorry, but your request was the SECOND time you asked for a refund when you ran into "finanical troubles" (your words). I'm not a pawn shop, and no matter how loud you squeal about not getting parts, I watched Ken load your box up and checked it myself. I offered to send you extra parts (because "extra" is what they would be) but you said no, you want money. Don't forget, you "discovered" this months after I shipped you the HH. Give me a break...


I don't know who Steve is offhand, sorry. Sounds like I pissed him off with Felt Pads. Again, sorry - but I like his Avatar. Best one I've seen on these boards in a while...


Like I said above, I don't post to the lists much anymore, mostly because I'm so damn busy. Thankfully I get calls every day from people who are happy with me and the HH. I take care of my customers because I genuinely do "care" about them, not because they represent $$ signs.

We've sold now well over 200 Hammerheads + dozens of other units configured with our electronics. We have several different projects in the works to make the product better and available to a wider base of users.

I can't tell you how many nights and weekends I've worked to get stuff done for my customers. I take pride in our work, and genuinely feel bad if someone is not happy.

There are people, however, who will fuss, kvetch, bitch, bleat, bellyache, snivel and gripe no matter what you do. It's like some kind of natural born right they feel. Anyone who works Retail knows what I'm talking about.

And the HH is a great product that I'm spending $$$ to make better and better, so it isn't like we're just sitting here trying to make money off of any fool that falls into our clutches.

Good grief, I invite damn near anyone and everyone to come to my shop. Some drive, some fly, as Joe Radomski will attest, some even arrive unannounced during blizzards with their cars stuck 3 miles away in a ditch, only to find that we leave our family behind and spend the day digging and pulling in blinding snow - AND then send them away with a HH under their arm.


We've been shipping HH's all the while building 200 sets of the Optima Wrist Assemblies, restoring about 12 Mark 15's that have been sent to us, rebuilding 5 BMR-500's, 1 CCR-2000, Rebuilding and providing parts for the entire Cis Lunar Mark 5P community and dozens of other side-jobs.

We get this business because we care, and because no one out there will go to the lengths we go to do what needs to be done with a lot of these machines.

Like my friend, Phi Le, said, we do take longer than most people would like. That is very true, especially this last year. But that is because *I* do most of the work personally. I'm only one guy. I hired two people to help me full-time, one does the accounting and business management, and the other is a shop worker. I've got one other part time guy who does amazing things with destroyed Mark 15 pneumatics.

But MY NAME is on the company, and if something leaves here and it doesn't work, it is MY FAULT. We're not perfect, and we've made some mistakes.

But when we are late, we do whatever we can to make up for it, including shipping for free, giving big discounts, or even (in the case of one poor customer) shipping him a HH for Inspiration for FREE by way of apology.

WHO DOES THAT? I hear the waiting list for some CCR products out there is now up to 10 months! Do those manufacturers ship the units for free, offer free upgrades, loaners or big discounts?? You don't have to look around for the answer, I'll tell you:

No.

I have people calling me all the time, practically begging me to fix things that no one will touch, like corroded Mark 15 Secondary Displays, or ruined Horseshoe Boards. Sometimes, especially on big rebuilds where the owner wants the all the newest stuff, we're late in deliveries.

I lay awake at night sometimes trying to figure out how to make everything faster, better, more reliable, tougher, and cooler. Not because I am trying to get rich (There's a LOT more money to be made in my old profession of filmmaking - sheesh), but because there is a definite need for someone to do what we do.

And no one out there cares as much about the individual diver as I do. My entire focus from the start of this business in a garage 10 years ago was to help divers stay alive. That is what matters the most.

But I'm grown up enough to know that you can't keep everyone happy all the time, and you are bound to piss off some folks, even legitimately. Whenever that happens, I try my hardest to square things away so everyone walks away if not happy, at least satisfied that their concerns were heard, and adjustments in their favor were made.

If you are mad at me for some reason, now is your one-shot opportunity to send an e-mail to me at <kevin@rebreather.us> and I PROMISE to try and resolve it to your everlasting satisfaction.

But I won't be bent over the fo'csle by people that take and take and expect more and more. I'm not Sears and Roebuck, and I'm not Miss Manners. People sometimes mistake being Nice for being Weak.

There are a couple of people I know of offhand who have a legitimate gripe against me for being late - but those people are some of my closest friends. Go figure.

And getting back to Philippe just one last time because it is his fault that I had to spend so much time writing this damn post: I cut the guy huge slack on the price of the unit, credit him back $400 for a part that he already took delivery of, letting him KEEP the part (which he subsequently SELLS, making his discount even bigger), let him MAKE PAYMENTS when the deal is everyone pays up-front to get the deal, then after he tears his unit apart REBUILD it for FREE, then PAY HIM for machined parts I didn't want, and don't really care to use, and when I won't give him a $900 upgrade for FREE, he bitches about me PUBLICLY.

AND *I'm* an asshole...?

Gordon Smith once told me that every year, you need to fire at least 10% of your customers.

He was right. I need this like I need a case of the clap.

Enough said.

Again, that e-mail address is: <kevin@rebreather.us> or you can always use the ever-popular <kevinisanasshole@electricfilm.com>. My wife uses that one the most...

Kevin.

P.S. You guys see now why I rarely respond to stuff on the Internet? I've damn near written a three act Italian Opera here...

Sorry for the wasted bandwidth, or any hurt feelings.

Oh yeah: One last thing: This is going to be my ONLY POST on this subject. Otherwise, I'll be going back-and-forth forever. Send me an e-mail, and then once you're happy (or not) you can come back here and tell everyone what a Bad Man I am....

And here, my very first post to the cool RebreatherWorld.com Website has to be a crummy one. Dang.

((You can also tell this is the first time I got to use all these little smiley characters. Back in My Day, we had to give everyone the "Tech Diver 'Are You O.K?' Sign" delivered on a Stone Tablet...)) ((And if you don't know what the "Tech Diver 'Are You O.K?' Sign" is, then ask Phi...))