hammer head (juergensen marine)

Philippe GERIN · 19th July 2005, 22:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Philippe,
All I wanted to say was that I don't remember that anyone was supposed to test anything else on the KISS-HH since we already had test dives on the unit by that time. So I was indeed surprised.!

Ok. Fair enough.

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

it was exactly the point Joe was making about Kevin not expecting to receive a bill for the modifications done by you. At least that was what I have heard from Kevin.

Agreed with you: "not expecting". Agreed with Joe: either mis-understanding or I should have asked written confirmation. About the bill: modifications made by a local machine shop. If it costs me (I don't own a machine shop) for a company that will sell the stuff, why should I support the cost for that company? then after all, that awfull bill was a few dozen bucks.

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

I just wish Kevin just post a reply and get this discussion finished once and for all!

Same here.

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

I agree, giving Kevin a chance to speak for himself and present his side of the situation is the main reason this thread is still open. No need to keep beating the same dead horse.

Amen!

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

I hope Kevin will give his side of the story, so we can, as Phi suggested, lay this discussion to rest.

Indeed.

This will be my last post on that subject. I feel kinda guilty I had hijacked the thread. Sorry felow administrators and members.
Original question was: is the HH a good tool/add-on for the Inspiration. With my limited experience on both units, I think it is. And I also think Joe is the most capable to explain/demonstrate why.

Best
Philippe

TechBlue · 19th July 2005, 23:37

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

Wise words, Phi, I'd rather stay out of this one, too.

I agree, giving Kevin a chance to speak for himself and present his side of the situation is the main reason this thread is still open. No need to keep beating the same dead horse

I hope Kevin will give his side of the story, so we can, as Phi suggested, lay this discussion to rest.

Like Philippe I would also like to have my issues resolved, personally I have held off from making a public outcry on this and I also don't want to turn this into a pissing contest. I understand that Kevin is a very busy guy as we all are and if he would like to deal with this privately and just settle it it's fine with me but I do need resolution.

decoweenie · 20th July 2005, 05:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

I hope Kevin will give his side of the story, so we can, as Phi suggested, lay this discussion to rest.

I have seen what Kevin has written, and it is very clear about the issue at hand.

IMHO, the only problem is Kevin doesn't like to get into this type of bare-all-in-public independent of who is in the right/wrong as one side will be embarrassed. But I see no elegant solution.

Anyway, best of luck to everyone in resolving your grievances!

**Steve** · 20th July 2005, 10:31

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

IMHO, the only problem is Kevin doesn't like to get into this type of bare-all-in-public independent of who is in the right/wrong as one side will be embarrassed. But I see no elegant solution.

Anyway, best of luck to everyone in resolving your grievances!

In my experience he doesn't like getting into internet discussions, responding to email, phone calls or carrier pigeon to resolve issues Phi. Let's hope the soon to be released Optima's customers have a better sucess rate than the KISS and YBOD HH purchacers have. Not to mention Mk 15.* felt pad users

***schford*** · 20th July 2005, 10:47

Who would have thought that innocent questions would have provoked so much discussion.

It reminds me of something we say in work....

You can please some of the people all of the time,
all of the people some of the time,
but not all of the people all of the time!

This leads us then into the strategy of how we handle customer problems, as this is widely recognisied as being key to succesfull customer relationships and partnering in any thing other than a commodity purchase.

It would appear that whilst we have a number of members who are both friends with and very satisfied with the service that Kevin offers we have a number of our members who have outstanding issues.

Now I am positive that there are two sides to every story and hope that Kevin who is a member of the board would share his side or the steps being taken to amicabbly resolve some of these otustanding problems.

If nothing else from a public relations excercise for potential future customers.

I do note that Kevin and Phillipe have resolved their differences in a manner which would appear to satisfy Phillipe but several of our other members have some issues (including some not posted) that are yet to be resolved.

Now I am sure no one expects laundery to be aired in public but it would be nice to know that positive action was underway to resolve difficulties if only an update note that discussions were underway.

Our goal for RBW was for it to be an open and inclusive community where we could help one and other, I am really pleased to see how some of our valuable and knowledgeable members such as Phi, Joe and Phillipe can discuss such difficult issues in such an open and constructive manner, without resorting to the typical trash that can so often be found.

I look forward to reading about some positive results.

Stuart

hawkeye · 20th July 2005, 17:32

I was considering getting a hammerhead but after reading this thread I think not. I am going to wait for kevins reply to make a final decesion but I think the choices were just narrowed to EVO or Meg and not upgrading my inspiration.

Hawkeye

**RichClark** · 20th July 2005, 18:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by RichClark)

Care to explain why Philippe?

Cheers

Rich

I'm almost sorry I asked

I only posed the question, because I was considering the HUD for a KISS.

Cheers

Rich

3mViz · 20th July 2005, 19:09

As yet another person who has had problems with service, or lack of it from Juergensen Marine, I would like to point out that schford is right. The problem seems to be that you get special service if you are a special friend of Kevin's.

If you are seen as being critical in any way, you get no service at all--no answers to e-mail--no answers to phone calls--not even an answer in paper mail.

I would venture to say that Kevin Juergensen is an honorable man, but if he is just "too busy" to try to give service to his customers, as jradomski says he is, then perhaps he should hire someone to take calls and practice proper public relations. Maybe jradomski would be a good choice for that post.

Just my .02 Euro's worth, or .05 Cdn.

***jradomski*** · 20th July 2005, 19:33

Quote: (Originally Posted by 3mViz)

Maybe jradomski would be a good choice for that post.

Just my .02 Euro's worth, or .05 Cdn.

No thank you... I don't want to be part of anything I don't have direct control of.. Kevin has always taken care of me (I started out just liek any other customer, I never knew him prior to ordering a HH), so I have no problems saying so.. Most of the issues all seem to be from people wanting free upgrades..
Sometimes repairs from him move along quickly othertimes they seem to crawl along..
If its MK15 work, it has to wait until he has time since he does most of the MK15 work himself, but what I have seen its worth the wait..
He needs to advise people better on why there is a delay when there is one..I know right now there are a bunch of people waiting for the new wrist units- He is about 3 months behind because of his old machinist and I don't think he has updated people on whats going on..

I think alot will change shorty... Kevin has been spending alot of time and money making sure the new units are going to be perfect and that he has alot of them in stock...

Anyone who is in driving range should arrange to drop by the factory, Kevin always seems to be happy to have people come by.. I only get to see him once in a while (he is an 8hr drive for me...)

Kevin definately needs to improve communications and keep people updated.. from what I have found if you are nice to him he goes out of his way for you,if you play games with him, forget it..

Muzz · 20th July 2005, 20:19

Now I'm concerned.

I'm on a waiting list for the Optima and I believe the holdup of the units is due to the handset and software. I'm now thinking it just might be better to order an Evo or Meg. It's disappointing to her June the July then the end of August but it would be even worse if I was part of the 50% that do not like the HH.

Steve

19th July 2005, 22:56	#21 (permalink)
Philippe GERIN ccr apprentice Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Strasbourg, France Posts: 647	Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Philippe, All I wanted to say was that I don't remember that anyone was supposed to test anything else on the KISS-HH since we already had test dives on the unit by that time. So I was indeed surprised.! Ok. Fair enough. Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) it was exactly the point Joe was making about Kevin not expecting to receive a bill for the modifications done by you. At least that was what I have heard from Kevin. Agreed with you: "not expecting". Agreed with Joe: either mis-understanding or I should have asked written confirmation. About the bill: modifications made by a local machine shop. If it costs me (I don't own a machine shop) for a company that will sell the stuff, why should I support the cost for that company? then after all, that awfull bill was a few dozen bucks. Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) I just wish Kevin just post a reply and get this discussion finished once and for all! Same here. Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) I agree, giving Kevin a chance to speak for himself and present his side of the situation is the main reason this thread is still open. No need to keep beating the same dead horse. Amen! Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) I hope Kevin will give his side of the story, so we can, as Phi suggested, lay this discussion to rest. Indeed. This will be my last post on that subject. I feel kinda guilty I had hijacked the thread. Sorry felow administrators and members. Original question was: is the HH a good tool/add-on for the Inspiration. With my limited experience on both units, I think it is. And I also think Joe is the most capable to explain/demonstrate why. Best Philippe
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19th July 2005, 23:37	#22 (permalink)
TechBlue RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Classic Kiss Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Optima Other CCR Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Costa del Sol, Spain Posts: 212	Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) Wise words, Phi, I'd rather stay out of this one, too. I agree, giving Kevin a chance to speak for himself and present his side of the situation is the main reason this thread is still open. No need to keep beating the same dead horse I hope Kevin will give his side of the story, so we can, as Phi suggested, lay this discussion to rest. Like Philippe I would also like to have my issues resolved, personally I have held off from making a public outcry on this and I also don't want to turn this into a pissing contest. I understand that Kevin is a very busy guy as we all are and if he would like to deal with this privately and just settle it it's fine with me but I do need resolution. __________________ Cheers, Chris www.tech-blue.com The site dedicated to Rebreather and Technical diving "We only sell what we dive"
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20th July 2005, 05:46	#23 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) I hope Kevin will give his side of the story, so we can, as Phi suggested, lay this discussion to rest. I have seen what Kevin has written, and it is very clear about the issue at hand. IMHO, the only problem is Kevin doesn't like to get into this type of bare-all-in-public independent of who is in the right/wrong as one side will be embarrassed. But I see no elegant solution. Anyway, best of luck to everyone in resolving your grievances!
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20th July 2005, 10:31	#24 (permalink)
Steve Ladies bring a plate Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth - Australia Posts: 1,126	Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) IMHO, the only problem is Kevin doesn't like to get into this type of bare-all-in-public independent of who is in the right/wrong as one side will be embarrassed. But I see no elegant solution. Anyway, best of luck to everyone in resolving your grievances! In my experience he doesn't like getting into internet discussions, responding to email, phone calls or carrier pigeon to resolve issues Phi. Let's hope the soon to be released Optima's customers have a better sucess rate than the KISS and YBOD HH purchacers have. Not to mention Mk 15.* felt pad users __________________ WARNING: I contain occasional coarse language, extreme sexual references, nudity, and adult themes, which may offend some people - Usually churchy types.
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20th July 2005, 10:47	#25 (permalink)
*schford* RBW Founder Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,564	Who would have thought that innocent questions would have provoked so much discussion. It reminds me of something we say in work.... You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time! This leads us then into the strategy of how we handle customer problems, as this is widely recognisied as being key to succesfull customer relationships and partnering in any thing other than a commodity purchase. It would appear that whilst we have a number of members who are both friends with and very satisfied with the service that Kevin offers we have a number of our members who have outstanding issues. Now I am positive that there are two sides to every story and hope that Kevin who is a member of the board would share his side or the steps being taken to amicabbly resolve some of these otustanding problems. If nothing else from a public relations excercise for potential future customers. I do note that Kevin and Phillipe have resolved their differences in a manner which would appear to satisfy Phillipe but several of our other members have some issues (including some not posted) that are yet to be resolved. Now I am sure no one expects laundery to be aired in public but it would be nice to know that positive action was underway to resolve difficulties if only an update note that discussions were underway. Our goal for RBW was for it to be an open and inclusive community where we could help one and other, I am really pleased to see how some of our valuable and knowledgeable members such as Phi, Joe and Phillipe can discuss such difficult issues in such an open and constructive manner, without resorting to the typical trash that can so often be found. I look forward to reading about some positive results. Stuart
(Offline)

20th July 2005, 17:32	#26 (permalink)
hawkeye New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: USA, Illinois Posts: 18	Any Hammerhead buyers Now? I was considering getting a hammerhead but after reading this thread I think not. I am going to wait for kevins reply to make a final decesion but I think the choices were just narrowed to EVO or Meg and not upgrading my inspiration. Hawkeye
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20th July 2005, 18:51	#27 (permalink)
RichClark Classic KISS No. 226 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hove, UK Posts: 791	Quote: (Originally Posted by RichClark) Care to explain why Philippe? Cheers Rich I'm almost sorry I asked I only posed the question, because I was considering the HUD for a KISS. Cheers Rich __________________ The more I learn about women, the more I want to go diving... just don't tell my wife I said that To taste something a little different, try http://www.thechillikitchen.co.uk
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20th July 2005, 19:09	#28 (permalink)
3mViz New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 10	As yet another person who has had problems with service, or lack of it from Juergensen Marine, I would like to point out that schford is right. The problem seems to be that you get special service if you are a special friend of Kevin's. If you are seen as being critical in any way, you get no service at all--no answers to e-mail--no answers to phone calls--not even an answer in paper mail. I would venture to say that Kevin Juergensen is an honorable man, but if he is just "too busy" to try to give service to his customers, as jradomski says he is, then perhaps he should hire someone to take calls and practice proper public relations. Maybe jradomski would be a good choice for that post. Just my .02 Euro's worth, or .05 Cdn.
(Offline)

20th July 2005, 19:33	#29 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,096	Quote: (Originally Posted by 3mViz) Maybe jradomski would be a good choice for that post. Just my .02 Euro's worth, or .05 Cdn. No thank you... I don't want to be part of anything I don't have direct control of.. Kevin has always taken care of me (I started out just liek any other customer, I never knew him prior to ordering a HH), so I have no problems saying so.. Most of the issues all seem to be from people wanting free upgrades.. Sometimes repairs from him move along quickly othertimes they seem to crawl along.. If its MK15 work, it has to wait until he has time since he does most of the MK15 work himself, but what I have seen its worth the wait.. He needs to advise people better on why there is a delay when there is one..I know right now there are a bunch of people waiting for the new wrist units- He is about 3 months behind because of his old machinist and I don't think he has updated people on whats going on.. I think alot will change shorty... Kevin has been spending alot of time and money making sure the new units are going to be perfect and that he has alot of them in stock... Anyone who is in driving range should arrange to drop by the factory, Kevin always seems to be happy to have people come by.. I only get to see him once in a while (he is an 8hr drive for me...) Kevin definately needs to improve communications and keep people updated.. from what I have found if you are nice to him he goes out of his way for you,if you play games with him, forget it.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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20th July 2005, 20:19	#30 (permalink)
Muzz New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pompano Beach FL Posts: 144	Now I'm concerned. I'm on a waiting list for the Optima and I believe the holdup of the units is due to the handset and software. I'm now thinking it just might be better to order an Evo or Meg. It's disappointing to her June the July then the end of August but it would be even worse if I was part of the 50% that do not like the HH. Steve
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