First Impressions of the Evolution

***schford*** · 15th June 2005, 21:00

Thought i would post and share with you my first impresisons of diving an Evo.

I swapped units with a friend of mine who has an Evo....

First up size - very similiar to the Meg, the Meg cylinders are a touch taller but then they are 3ls, if it was 2ls then I guess they would be the same height and width.

Weight wise, the unit is lighter than the Meg but I had to use 10kg with it compared to the 4kg on the Meg so all up weight balanced out. Though stripped for travelling the Meg is 20kg and I believe the Evo is 14 or 15kg so slight advantage to the Evo there. Both are way inside the travel limits, Meg is a touch heavier but I would say gets the slight edge for traveling as it fits into an overhead locker bag.

Harness was very comfortable on the Evo and fitted well. Wing was great too, inflate / auto air was a little akward but I guess that is as I was not used to it.

Swimming wise, it swum just like the Meg, held me in a lovely position in the water and was as streamlined as the Meg - Paul and I both agreed each others unit swam very like the other. So big tick in the box there.

I was very very impressed with the brightness and clarity of the new Vision electronics. I did not like the HUD, I am used to flying the unit manually and doing it via my HUD - I could not do this with the Evo HUD and had to constantly check my wrist display.

Incidently Paul had his wrist display on the right wrist as otherwisee the HUD blocks the view. On the Meg the HUD is on the right which appears ot be a better location.

All up I really liked it.

Stuart

MAD · 15th June 2005, 21:16

Good bit of feedback... wouldn't mind trying the Meg myself.

Agree with all your comments... oddly enough my two critisms are also the need for the added weight when diving... which can give you back ache if you don't wear the unit low enough... and the comment on the Hud obstructing the handset...

This has frustrated me so much that I've taken to wearing it on the harness... it does also mean it's kept out of harms way.

Didn't even know that it could have been configured as a right hander... wonder how easy it would be to get changed? I'll ask Nicky.

Other than that I love the unit... definitely a step up from the (what is now known as) classic Inspie...

Thanks again.

Mark

decoweenie · 16th June 2005, 05:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

Incidently Paul had his wrist display on the right wrist as otherwisee the HUD blocks the view. On the Meg the HUD is on the right which appears ot be a better location.

That's an awkward solution, move the Evo HUD to the right instead. It is very simple to do.

nitrojunkie · 16th June 2005, 06:42

The wrist unit on the Evolution seems to be the only really poor design choice made on the unit (except perhaps the battery box in the loop issue). The wrist unit is just plain uncomfortable when used with a wetsuit. The cable connection at the lower left side ends up twisting the display away from the body. I almost always have to awkwardly twist my arm to see the display.

The case itself is a great looking piece of hardware until you strap it on. It seems like apd should have either had the cable on the top of the wrist unit which would force it towards the diver rather than away, or used an asymmetrical concave back to force the unit to sit properly on the forearm when in use.

I have yet to switch back to clipping the unit off on the harness but am going to do this next. I still find myself intuitively reaching for my old style handsets only to find nothing there. It also makes for one less "flying" cable outside the envelope.

I also find myself diving the VR3 for deco and really using the Vision as back-up. With the Vision gradient set to 30/85 the run times are essentially the same but the VR3 deep stops require that it becomes the "primary" computer of the two. The Vision seems to constantly express a slightly shallower ceiling than the VR3 except in the 40-60' stops range where the ceilings seem to be closest but the Vision still seems to be a few feet shallower.

Has anyone encountered a situation where the VR3 stops was shallower than the Vision? It could be different on shallower deco dives but I have yet to encounter it.

I would like to be able to clip-off the Vision handset and forget it, fly with just the HUD and the VR3 defining the deco profile. If there is a HUD warning then go to the Vision handset but there is something very comforting about watching the cells and seeing their behavior over the course of the entire dive rather than just a checking-in every 15 or 20 minutes.

Doug

MAD · 16th June 2005, 06:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

That's an awkward solution, move the Evo HUD to the right instead. It is very simple to do.

Now that's a fair point... I had tried that but for some reason it feels much more intrusive on the righthand side... maybe something to do with me being right handed (eyed?)...

It is very easy to do however...

***schford*** · 16th June 2005, 09:19

Quote: (Originally Posted by nitrojunkie)

I also find myself diving the VR3 for deco and really using the Vision as back-up. With the Vision gradient set to 30/85 the run times are essentially the same but the VR3 deep stops require that it becomes the "primary" computer of the two. The Vision seems to constantly express a slightly shallower ceiling than the VR3 except in the 40-60' stops range where the ceilings seem to be closest but the Vision still seems to be a few feet shallower.

Has anyone encountered a situation where the VR3 stops was shallower than the Vision? It could be different on shallower deco dives but I have yet to encounter it.
Doug

Hi Doug,

Try running the Evolution on 10/85 GF and I bet the ceilings come closer together (educated guess without running the models them selves and referring to the deeper stops) you are never going to get the deep stops the same as the VR3 uses a modified pyle stop, and in fact your still on gassing with some profiles and with GF you are neve rongassing at any stop. Although those deep stops do make sure you ascend nice and slow.

Stuart

nitrojunkie · 17th June 2005, 05:35

Stuart,

I still don't have a solid enough understanding of gradient factors variables to start playing with them too much but I would guess your suggestion would keep the ceilings closer. I would only be concerned that the total run times would begin to get out of sync and potentially each computer might compete to take over the schedule. I'll give it a shot the next time I am on 2 similar profiles and see how this impacts timings and which computer controls the dive. I certainly wouldn't mind staying in the soup longer if conditions are friendly

The fact that the Vision uses a curve rather than stops kind of makes it a significantly different enough approach - I kind of prefer using the VR3. Although I hope and imagine the curve is a solidly tested method for deco, it seems like it would take me a while to get comfortable enough to ride it to the surface. I understand the concept but I kind of like the stair stepping of the VR3 compared with what seemed like shallower depths of the Vision approach. At least for warm water 240'-330' dives with 15 to 30 minute bottom times.

If the bottom times were longer I would probably switch to a 10/85 GF anyway or if I remember the Evo manual even suggested a low GF of 5 for deeper longer diving with over 20 or 30 minutes bottom time. Does any one have a recommendation on a good resource for understanding gradient factors in practice? I would like to understand the concept more fully I just never had the right resource and the time to delve into it at depth.

Doug

***jradomski*** · 17th June 2005, 07:33

Quote: (Originally Posted by nitrojunkie)

Stuart,

I still don't have a solid enough understanding of gradient factors variables to start playing with them too much but I would guess your suggestion would keep the ceilings closer. I would only be concerned that the total run times would begin to get out of sync and potentially each computer might compete to take over the schedule. I'll give it a shot the next time I am on 2 similar profiles and see how this impacts timings and which computer controls the dive. I certainly wouldn't mind staying in the soup longer if conditions are friendly

The fact that the Vision uses a curve rather than stops kind of makes it a significantly different enough approach - I kind of prefer using the VR3. Although I hope and imagine the curve is a solidly tested method for deco, it seems like it would take me a while to get comfortable enough to ride it to the surface. I understand the concept but I kind of like the stair stepping of the VR3 compared with what seemed like shallower depths of the Vision approach. At least for warm water 240'-330' dives with 15 to 30 minute bottom times.

If the bottom times were longer I would probably switch to a 10/85 GF anyway or if I remember the Evo manual even suggested a low GF of 5 for deeper longer diving with over 20 or 30 minutes bottom time. Does any one have a recommendation on a good resource for understanding gradient factors in practice? I would like to understand the concept more fully I just never had the right resource and the time to delve into it at depth.

Doug

The VR3 does stops akin to pyle stops, a few stops rater than a nice progression.. it makes you get shallower too quickly in my opinion then makes you hang longer shallow..

GF is a much more natural limit progression.. The more stops required the smother the "curve" becomes.. If you get the right ascent rate the deeper stops will almost clear by arrival.. The deep VR3 stops are a pain to predict, sometiems they are too deep and require you to stop deeper than you should be (not really in the decompression zone)...

The problem you will find is that the VR3 will penalize you for staying at depth, so you will have to play with your settings and conservatism.. Your stops at depth should help reduce the shallows but this does not happen in practice on the VR3..

I can get a HH (whih is also a gf alg) and the explorer to line up much more eadily than the HH and VR3..

Pelagian · 17th June 2005, 17:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by nitrojunkie)

Does any one have a recommendation on a good resource for understanding gradient factors in practice? I would like to understand the concept more fully I just never had the right resource and the time to delve into it at depth.

Doug

I found the following 2 papers a good start to understanding deep stop theory, icluding Pyle stops and gradient factros. I found that from here it was easier to go to the more technical texts, like Wienke's 'Basic Decompression' and 'RGBM in depth'.

http://www.bishopmuseum.org/bishop/t...deepstops.html

ftp://decompression.org/pub/Baker/Deep%20Stops.pdf

The VPM website

http://www.decompression.org/maiken/...m_Site_Map.htm

also has a bunch of information that I found very usefull.

Cheers

Seb

nitrojunkie · 17th June 2005, 23:34

Quote: (Originally Posted by Pelagian)

...
ftp://decompression.org/pub/Baker/Deep%20Stops.pdf
...
Cheers

Seb

The Baker paper on deep stops is the take I was looking for. It still seems like there should be a Gradient Factors for Dummies published... and inserted into the Vision section of the APD manual. I'll probably need to spend some time diving varying GF's to get a real feel for it.

Ever since I started diving deeper I have found deep stops certainly help make me feel better after a dive, with the Vision electronics it is the first time I have had to make the decision myself as to how to set them. The Vision manual gives some basic settings just not much on the rationale side as to the "why" you set what you set.

Thanks,

Doug

15th June 2005, 21:00	#1 (permalink)
*schford* RBW Founder Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,564	First Impressions of the Evolution Thought i would post and share with you my first impresisons of diving an Evo. I swapped units with a friend of mine who has an Evo.... First up size - very similiar to the Meg, the Meg cylinders are a touch taller but then they are 3ls, if it was 2ls then I guess they would be the same height and width. Weight wise, the unit is lighter than the Meg but I had to use 10kg with it compared to the 4kg on the Meg so all up weight balanced out. Though stripped for travelling the Meg is 20kg and I believe the Evo is 14 or 15kg so slight advantage to the Evo there. Both are way inside the travel limits, Meg is a touch heavier but I would say gets the slight edge for traveling as it fits into an overhead locker bag. Harness was very comfortable on the Evo and fitted well. Wing was great too, inflate / auto air was a little akward but I guess that is as I was not used to it. Swimming wise, it swum just like the Meg, held me in a lovely position in the water and was as streamlined as the Meg - Paul and I both agreed each others unit swam very like the other. So big tick in the box there. I was very very impressed with the brightness and clarity of the new Vision electronics. I did not like the HUD, I am used to flying the unit manually and doing it via my HUD - I could not do this with the Evo HUD and had to constantly check my wrist display. Incidently Paul had his wrist display on the right wrist as otherwisee the HUD blocks the view. On the Meg the HUD is on the right which appears ot be a better location. All up I really liked it. Stuart
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15th June 2005, 21:16	#2 (permalink)
MAD RBW Writer Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Northampton Posts: 71	Good bit of feedback... wouldn't mind trying the Meg myself. Agree with all your comments... oddly enough my two critisms are also the need for the added weight when diving... which can give you back ache if you don't wear the unit low enough... and the comment on the Hud obstructing the handset... This has frustrated me so much that I've taken to wearing it on the harness... it does also mean it's kept out of harms way. Didn't even know that it could have been configured as a right hander... wonder how easy it would be to get changed? I'll ask Nicky. Other than that I love the unit... definitely a step up from the (what is now known as) classic Inspie... Thanks again. Mark
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16th June 2005, 05:25	#3 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) Incidently Paul had his wrist display on the right wrist as otherwisee the HUD blocks the view. On the Meg the HUD is on the right which appears ot be a better location. That's an awkward solution, move the Evo HUD to the right instead. It is very simple to do.
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16th June 2005, 06:42	#4 (permalink)
nitrojunkie New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 58	Vision wrist unit The wrist unit on the Evolution seems to be the only really poor design choice made on the unit (except perhaps the battery box in the loop issue). The wrist unit is just plain uncomfortable when used with a wetsuit. The cable connection at the lower left side ends up twisting the display away from the body. I almost always have to awkwardly twist my arm to see the display. The case itself is a great looking piece of hardware until you strap it on. It seems like apd should have either had the cable on the top of the wrist unit which would force it towards the diver rather than away, or used an asymmetrical concave back to force the unit to sit properly on the forearm when in use. I have yet to switch back to clipping the unit off on the harness but am going to do this next. I still find myself intuitively reaching for my old style handsets only to find nothing there. It also makes for one less "flying" cable outside the envelope. I also find myself diving the VR3 for deco and really using the Vision as back-up. With the Vision gradient set to 30/85 the run times are essentially the same but the VR3 deep stops require that it becomes the "primary" computer of the two. The Vision seems to constantly express a slightly shallower ceiling than the VR3 except in the 40-60' stops range where the ceilings seem to be closest but the Vision still seems to be a few feet shallower. Has anyone encountered a situation where the VR3 stops was shallower than the Vision? It could be different on shallower deco dives but I have yet to encounter it. I would like to be able to clip-off the Vision handset and forget it, fly with just the HUD and the VR3 defining the deco profile. If there is a HUD warning then go to the Vision handset but there is something very comforting about watching the cells and seeing their behavior over the course of the entire dive rather than just a checking-in every 15 or 20 minutes. Doug __________________ www.TheDepthFinder.com
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16th June 2005, 06:45	#5 (permalink)
MAD RBW Writer Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Northampton Posts: 71	Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) That's an awkward solution, move the Evo HUD to the right instead. It is very simple to do. Now that's a fair point... I had tried that but for some reason it feels much more intrusive on the righthand side... maybe something to do with me being right handed (eyed?)... It is very easy to do however...
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16th June 2005, 09:19	#6 (permalink)
*schford* RBW Founder Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,564	Quote: (Originally Posted by nitrojunkie) I also find myself diving the VR3 for deco and really using the Vision as back-up. With the Vision gradient set to 30/85 the run times are essentially the same but the VR3 deep stops require that it becomes the "primary" computer of the two. The Vision seems to constantly express a slightly shallower ceiling than the VR3 except in the 40-60' stops range where the ceilings seem to be closest but the Vision still seems to be a few feet shallower. Has anyone encountered a situation where the VR3 stops was shallower than the Vision? It could be different on shallower deco dives but I have yet to encounter it. Doug Hi Doug, Try running the Evolution on 10/85 GF and I bet the ceilings come closer together (educated guess without running the models them selves and referring to the deeper stops) you are never going to get the deep stops the same as the VR3 uses a modified pyle stop, and in fact your still on gassing with some profiles and with GF you are neve rongassing at any stop. Although those deep stops do make sure you ascend nice and slow. Stuart
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17th June 2005, 05:35	#7 (permalink)
nitrojunkie New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 58	Stuart, I still don't have a solid enough understanding of gradient factors variables to start playing with them too much but I would guess your suggestion would keep the ceilings closer. I would only be concerned that the total run times would begin to get out of sync and potentially each computer might compete to take over the schedule. I'll give it a shot the next time I am on 2 similar profiles and see how this impacts timings and which computer controls the dive. I certainly wouldn't mind staying in the soup longer if conditions are friendly The fact that the Vision uses a curve rather than stops kind of makes it a significantly different enough approach - I kind of prefer using the VR3. Although I hope and imagine the curve is a solidly tested method for deco, it seems like it would take me a while to get comfortable enough to ride it to the surface. I understand the concept but I kind of like the stair stepping of the VR3 compared with what seemed like shallower depths of the Vision approach. At least for warm water 240'-330' dives with 15 to 30 minute bottom times. If the bottom times were longer I would probably switch to a 10/85 GF anyway or if I remember the Evo manual even suggested a low GF of 5 for deeper longer diving with over 20 or 30 minutes bottom time. Does any one have a recommendation on a good resource for understanding gradient factors in practice? I would like to understand the concept more fully I just never had the right resource and the time to delve into it at depth. Doug __________________ www.TheDepthFinder.com
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17th June 2005, 07:33	#8 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,096	Quote: (Originally Posted by nitrojunkie) Stuart, I still don't have a solid enough understanding of gradient factors variables to start playing with them too much but I would guess your suggestion would keep the ceilings closer. I would only be concerned that the total run times would begin to get out of sync and potentially each computer might compete to take over the schedule. I'll give it a shot the next time I am on 2 similar profiles and see how this impacts timings and which computer controls the dive. I certainly wouldn't mind staying in the soup longer if conditions are friendly The fact that the Vision uses a curve rather than stops kind of makes it a significantly different enough approach - I kind of prefer using the VR3. Although I hope and imagine the curve is a solidly tested method for deco, it seems like it would take me a while to get comfortable enough to ride it to the surface. I understand the concept but I kind of like the stair stepping of the VR3 compared with what seemed like shallower depths of the Vision approach. At least for warm water 240'-330' dives with 15 to 30 minute bottom times. If the bottom times were longer I would probably switch to a 10/85 GF anyway or if I remember the Evo manual even suggested a low GF of 5 for deeper longer diving with over 20 or 30 minutes bottom time. Does any one have a recommendation on a good resource for understanding gradient factors in practice? I would like to understand the concept more fully I just never had the right resource and the time to delve into it at depth. Doug The VR3 does stops akin to pyle stops, a few stops rater than a nice progression.. it makes you get shallower too quickly in my opinion then makes you hang longer shallow.. GF is a much more natural limit progression.. The more stops required the smother the "curve" becomes.. If you get the right ascent rate the deeper stops will almost clear by arrival.. The deep VR3 stops are a pain to predict, sometiems they are too deep and require you to stop deeper than you should be (not really in the decompression zone)... The problem you will find is that the VR3 will penalize you for staying at depth, so you will have to play with your settings and conservatism.. Your stops at depth should help reduce the shallows but this does not happen in practice on the VR3.. I can get a HH (whih is also a gf alg) and the explorer to line up much more eadily than the HH and VR3.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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17th June 2005, 17:50	#9 (permalink)
Pelagian Multi-Circuit Meg Monkey! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Optima Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 306	Deep Stops Quote: (Originally Posted by nitrojunkie) Does any one have a recommendation on a good resource for understanding gradient factors in practice? I would like to understand the concept more fully I just never had the right resource and the time to delve into it at depth. Doug I found the following 2 papers a good start to understanding deep stop theory, icluding Pyle stops and gradient factros. I found that from here it was easier to go to the more technical texts, like Wienke's 'Basic Decompression' and 'RGBM in depth'. http://www.bishopmuseum.org/bishop/t...deepstops.html ftp://decompression.org/pub/Baker/Deep%20Stops.pdf The VPM website http://www.decompression.org/maiken/...m_Site_Map.htm also has a bunch of information that I found very usefull. Cheers Seb __________________ 'Because... I was Inverted!'
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17th June 2005, 23:34	#10 (permalink)
nitrojunkie New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 58	Quote: (Originally Posted by Pelagian) ... ftp://decompression.org/pub/Baker/Deep%20Stops.pdf ... Cheers Seb The Baker paper on deep stops is the take I was looking for. It still seems like there should be a Gradient Factors for Dummies published... and inserted into the Vision section of the APD manual. I'll probably need to spend some time diving varying GF's to get a real feel for it. Ever since I started diving deeper I have found deep stops certainly help make me feel better after a dive, with the Vision electronics it is the first time I have had to make the decision myself as to how to set them. The Vision manual gives some basic settings just not much on the rationale side as to the "why" you set what you set. Thanks, Doug __________________ www.TheDepthFinder.com
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