Inspiration newbie quetion?

sensor330 · 23rd May 2005, 02:28

Hi All,

This is probably a question for the inspo list but I haven't been added yet. I had my Inspo out for a couple of dives today and when I got home I was checking my calibration out of curiosity and I got a cell error in number two cell. Basically it when thru cal check and then I got "Cell n Failure" and the "No Dive". Would it be logical for me to assume that this is caused by moisture on the cell face?

Thanks,

Scott

**wedivebc** · 23rd May 2005, 03:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by sensor330)

Hi All,

This is probably a question for the inspo list but I haven't been added yet. I had my Inspo out for a couple of dives today and when I got home I was checking my calibration out of curiosity and I got a cell error in number two cell. Basically it when thru cal check and then I got "Cell n Failure" and the "No Dive". Would it be logical for me to assume that this is caused by moisture on the cell face?

Thanks,

Scott

could you have leaned the unit on its back after the first dive? If so moisture could have got into #2 cell.

sensor330 · 23rd May 2005, 04:15

Quote: (Originally Posted by wedivebc)

could you have leaned the unit on its back after the first dive? If so moisture could have got into #2 cell.

I am aware of that problem, and yes I did lay it on its back because I was done diving for the day. I just want to know is this what happends when moisture collects in that area?

Scott

DaveB · 23rd May 2005, 07:41

The short answer is YES. With moisture on the face of the cell is is very slow to react to ppO2 changes. It therefore presents as a failed cell.

Quote: (Originally Posted by sensor330)

I am aware of that problem, and yes I did lay it on its back because I was done diving for the day. I just want to know is this what happends when moisture collects in that area?

Scott

***Decodiver*** · 23rd May 2005, 08:24

Hi Scott,

The hydrophobic membrane on the cell means that ,if you then lay the unit it on it's front for a couple of minutes it should calibrate no problem.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

***jradomski*** · 23rd May 2005, 18:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

Hi Scott,

The hydrophobic membrane on the cell means that ,if you then lay the unit it on it's front for a couple of minutes it should calibrate no problem.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

not correct, the hydrophobic membrane prevents water from easily entering the cell (but moisture DOES in fact diffuse through this membrane, thats why cells are rated for 50% rh, if you left your cells exposed to very dry air (like in an air conditioned room) you would dramatically reduce the cells expectedf life.. the membrane has a very specific diffusion rate, if a cell is calibrated with a water droplet on it the total area is reduced and the diffusion of oxygen through the cell will be reduced.. if you get a "successful" calibration, its wrong once the wtare droplet is off the sensor. the readings will now be higher than actual...
This is also why when a cell is properly calibrated and water ends up on the cell face the reading is lower..

SCOTT
Units should always be stored either up right or laying on the lungs NEVER on the shell, Your instructor should have covered this with you.. The position of sensor #2 is such that if laid on the shell any water running down the tube will end up on the cell face..

If you want to recalibrate between dives OPEN UP the head and let the cells dry off!

sensor330 · 23rd May 2005, 19:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

Your instructor should have covered this with you.. The position of sensor #2 is such that if laid on the shell any water running down the tube will end up on the cell face..

If you want to recalibrate between dives OPEN UP the head and let the cells dry off!

Yes my instructor did cover this. I did however lay it on its back because I was done diving for the day. When I got home I needed to change a battery, so I decided to go thru a cal check to ensure everything was working. That is when I discovered the CELLnFAILURE and I suspected moisture on number two cell but I wasn't sure. Anyways hooked everything back up today and it works well. Just so I have this correct the unit should never be placed on its back or is it alright to place it on its back it there is no more diving planned for the day.

Scott

***jradomski*** · 23rd May 2005, 20:17

Quote: (Originally Posted by sensor330)

Yes my instructor did cover this. I did however lay it on its back because I was done diving for the day. When I got home I needed to change a battery, so I decided to go thru a cal check to ensure everything was working. That is when I discovered the CELLnFAILURE and I suspected moisture on number two cell but I wasn't sure. Anyways hooked everything back up today and it works well. Just so I have this correct the unit should never be placed on its back or is it alright to place it on its back it there is no more diving planned for the day.

Scott

IF there is ANY chance there is moisture in the head, don't lay it on the back or you will be replacing sensor #2 prematurely... The lungs are pretty robust, there is really no reason to lay the unit on the hard plastic case.. (its not flat anyway)

When the unit is shipped from the factory its shipped counterlungs down...

sensor330 · 23rd May 2005, 20:20

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

IF there is ANY chance there is moisture in the head, don't lay it on the back or you will be replacing sensor #2 prematurely... The lungs are pretty robust, there is really no reason to lay the unit on the hard plastic case.. (its not flat anyway)

When the unit is shipped from the factory its shipped counterlungs down...

I'll have to start do that then. I'm just paranoid about damaging the handsets.

Scott

***Decodiver*** · 23rd May 2005, 20:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

not correct, the hydrophobic membrane prevents water from easily entering the cell (but moisture DOES in fact diffuse through this membrane, thats why cells are rated for 50% rh, if you left your cells exposed to very dry air (like in an air conditioned room) you would dramatically reduce the cells expectedf life.. the membrane has a very specific diffusion rate, if a cell is calibrated with a water droplet on it the total area is reduced and the diffusion of oxygen through the cell will be reduced.. if you get a "successful" calibration, its wrong once the wtare droplet is off the sensor. the readings will now be higher than actual...
This is also why when a cell is properly calibrated and water ends up on the cell face the reading is lower..

SCOTT
Units should always be stored either up right or laying on the lungs NEVER on the shell, Your instructor should have covered this with you.. The position of sensor #2 is such that if laid on the shell any water running down the tube will end up on the cell face..

If you want to recalibrate between dives OPEN UP the head and let the cells dry off!

Yes Joe, I agree, if you manage to calibrate with a droplet on the cell this will affect the reading, however if you lay the unit on its front the droplet drains off the hydrophobic membrane on the the cell, hence my explanation.

Moisture at the back of the cell will also make the cell show a higher PPO2.

However here we are talking about water on the cell face.

Or are you saying that the head should be dried before each calibration?

Because if you are then that goes against the thoughts of Martin Parker for one, the Inspiration was designed to allow calibration with humidity in the loop.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

23rd May 2005, 02:28	#1 (permalink)
sensor330 RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 593	Inspiration newbie quetion? Hi All, This is probably a question for the inspo list but I haven't been added yet. I had my Inspo out for a couple of dives today and when I got home I was checking my calibration out of curiosity and I got a cell error in number two cell. Basically it when thru cal check and then I got "Cell n Failure" and the "No Dive". Would it be logical for me to assume that this is caused by moisture on the cell face? Thanks, Scott
(Offline)

23rd May 2005, 03:38	#2 (permalink)
wedivebc Dave Tomblin Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver Island BC Canada Posts: 1,493	Quote: (Originally Posted by sensor330) Hi All, This is probably a question for the inspo list but I haven't been added yet. I had my Inspo out for a couple of dives today and when I got home I was checking my calibration out of curiosity and I got a cell error in number two cell. Basically it when thru cal check and then I got "Cell n Failure" and the "No Dive". Would it be logical for me to assume that this is caused by moisture on the cell face? Thanks, Scott could you have leaned the unit on its back after the first dive? If so moisture could have got into #2 cell. __________________ Cheers, Dave.... Man is the only animal burdened with the knowledge he will eventually die
(Offline)

23rd May 2005, 04:15	#3 (permalink)
sensor330 RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 593	Quote: (Originally Posted by wedivebc) could you have leaned the unit on its back after the first dive? If so moisture could have got into #2 cell. I am aware of that problem, and yes I did lay it on its back because I was done diving for the day. I just want to know is this what happends when moisture collects in that area? Scott
(Offline)

23rd May 2005, 07:41	#4 (permalink)
DaveB RBW Writer Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK Posts: 89	The short answer is YES. With moisture on the face of the cell is is very slow to react to ppO2 changes. It therefore presents as a failed cell. Quote: (Originally Posted by sensor330) I am aware of that problem, and yes I did lay it on its back because I was done diving for the day. I just want to know is this what happends when moisture collects in that area? Scott
(Offline)

23rd May 2005, 08:24	#5 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,190	Hi Scott, The hydrophobic membrane on the cell means that ,if you then lay the unit it on it's front for a couple of minutes it should calibrate no problem. Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
(Offline)

23rd May 2005, 18:29	#6 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,096	Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver) Hi Scott, The hydrophobic membrane on the cell means that ,if you then lay the unit it on it's front for a couple of minutes it should calibrate no problem. Cheers, Dave Cooper. not correct, the hydrophobic membrane prevents water from easily entering the cell (but moisture DOES in fact diffuse through this membrane, thats why cells are rated for 50% rh, if you left your cells exposed to very dry air (like in an air conditioned room) you would dramatically reduce the cells expectedf life.. the membrane has a very specific diffusion rate, if a cell is calibrated with a water droplet on it the total area is reduced and the diffusion of oxygen through the cell will be reduced.. if you get a "successful" calibration, its wrong once the wtare droplet is off the sensor. the readings will now be higher than actual... This is also why when a cell is properly calibrated and water ends up on the cell face the reading is lower.. SCOTT Units should always be stored either up right or laying on the lungs NEVER on the shell, Your instructor should have covered this with you.. The position of sensor #2 is such that if laid on the shell any water running down the tube will end up on the cell face.. If you want to recalibrate between dives OPEN UP the head and let the cells dry off! __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
(Offline)

23rd May 2005, 19:55	#7 (permalink)
sensor330 RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 593	Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) Your instructor should have covered this with you.. The position of sensor #2 is such that if laid on the shell any water running down the tube will end up on the cell face.. If you want to recalibrate between dives OPEN UP the head and let the cells dry off! Yes my instructor did cover this. I did however lay it on its back because I was done diving for the day. When I got home I needed to change a battery, so I decided to go thru a cal check to ensure everything was working. That is when I discovered the CELLnFAILURE and I suspected moisture on number two cell but I wasn't sure. Anyways hooked everything back up today and it works well. Just so I have this correct the unit should never be placed on its back or is it alright to place it on its back it there is no more diving planned for the day. Scott
(Offline)

23rd May 2005, 20:17	#8 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,096	Quote: (Originally Posted by sensor330) Yes my instructor did cover this. I did however lay it on its back because I was done diving for the day. When I got home I needed to change a battery, so I decided to go thru a cal check to ensure everything was working. That is when I discovered the CELLnFAILURE and I suspected moisture on number two cell but I wasn't sure. Anyways hooked everything back up today and it works well. Just so I have this correct the unit should never be placed on its back or is it alright to place it on its back it there is no more diving planned for the day. Scott IF there is ANY chance there is moisture in the head, don't lay it on the back or you will be replacing sensor #2 prematurely... The lungs are pretty robust, there is really no reason to lay the unit on the hard plastic case.. (its not flat anyway) When the unit is shipped from the factory its shipped counterlungs down... __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
(Offline)

23rd May 2005, 20:20	#9 (permalink)
sensor330 RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 593	Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) IF there is ANY chance there is moisture in the head, don't lay it on the back or you will be replacing sensor #2 prematurely... The lungs are pretty robust, there is really no reason to lay the unit on the hard plastic case.. (its not flat anyway) When the unit is shipped from the factory its shipped counterlungs down... I'll have to start do that then. I'm just paranoid about damaging the handsets. Scott
(Offline)

23rd May 2005, 20:44	#10 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,190	Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) not correct, the hydrophobic membrane prevents water from easily entering the cell (but moisture DOES in fact diffuse through this membrane, thats why cells are rated for 50% rh, if you left your cells exposed to very dry air (like in an air conditioned room) you would dramatically reduce the cells expectedf life.. the membrane has a very specific diffusion rate, if a cell is calibrated with a water droplet on it the total area is reduced and the diffusion of oxygen through the cell will be reduced.. if you get a "successful" calibration, its wrong once the wtare droplet is off the sensor. the readings will now be higher than actual... This is also why when a cell is properly calibrated and water ends up on the cell face the reading is lower.. SCOTT Units should always be stored either up right or laying on the lungs NEVER on the shell, Your instructor should have covered this with you.. The position of sensor #2 is such that if laid on the shell any water running down the tube will end up on the cell face.. If you want to recalibrate between dives OPEN UP the head and let the cells dry off! Yes Joe, I agree, if you manage to calibrate with a droplet on the cell this will affect the reading, however if you lay the unit on its front the droplet drains off the hydrophobic membrane on the the cell, hence my explanation. Moisture at the back of the cell will also make the cell show a higher PPO2. However here we are talking about water on the cell face. Or are you saying that the head should be dried before each calibration? Because if you are then that goes against the thoughts of Martin Parker for one, the Inspiration was designed to allow calibration with humidity in the loop. Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
(Offline)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode