Which Frame

Pugwash · 14th August 2006, 10:05

Following one of those remarkable Egyptian miracles where something gets left in the office for one night, taken out of the box by absolutely nobody, smashed, and returned to the box (upsidedown) with NO-ONE SEEING ANYTHING I am now either in the market for a replacement black case or a replacement frame.

It is all rather annoying, the unit has only done 20 hours, and was pristine. Now the base of the black case is comprehensively smashed - indictactive of someone perhaps trying it on and then dropping it. Fortunately there was no other damage and it is still safely diveable after some adjustment with a sharp knife and some gaffer tape, otherwise there would have been a mass-dismissal of staff!

Malesh! (Arabic: sh*t happens / oh-well / that's life).

If I don't go down the standard butty-box route, my requirements are for a frame robust enough for daily use, but light enough for travel. I don't yet do mix or big deco, but that is the future intention. It must be able to utilise the standard 22 kg wing, and perhaps also the standard harness.

What do you recommend (with prices and weights if you know them), and what you suggest I steer clear of?

Thanks in advance

Dan

decoweenie · 14th August 2006, 10:27

If it was an Evolution, I have a perfectly brand new (never seen water) Evolution case for sale.

When it arrived, I simply took the scrubber+reg assembly off and toss everything in the back of the dive room.

Same offer for anyone else looking for an Evolution case. And 2 brand new 2L tanks are also available.

If you decide on the Travel-Frame, we have exactly 1 left with perforated lid. After that is sold, we will go into wait-list mode...

nmanfield · 14th August 2006, 12:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by Pugwash)

Following one of those remarkable Egyptian miracles where something gets left in the office for one night, taken out of the box by absolutely nobody, smashed, and returned to the box (upsidedown) with NO-ONE SEEING ANYTHING I am now either in the market for a replacement black case or a replacement frame.

It is all rather annoying, the unit has only done 20 hours, and was pristine. Now the base of the black case is comprehensively smashed - indictactive of someone perhaps trying it on and then dropping it. Fortunately there was no other damage and it is still safely diveable after some adjustment with a sharp knife and some gaffer tape, otherwise there would have been a mass-dismissal of staff!

Malesh! (Arabic: sh*t happens / oh-well / that's life).

If I don't go down the standard butty-box route, my requirements are for a frame robust enough for daily use, but light enough for travel. I don't yet do mix or big deco, but that is the future intention. It must be able to utilise the standard 22 kg wing, and perhaps also the standard harness.

What do you recommend (with prices and weights if you know them), and what you suggest I steer clear of?

Thanks in advance

Dan

Hi Dan,

Being a complete kit wh@re I have experience in many of the current frames out there. When i had my Inspiration I had 3 different frames: Kent tooling, Phi Box and a DES Titanium box. All with different advantages and disadvantages. There are others on the market at the moment most notably (IMHO) the Aluminium or titanium boxes by Michael Hearn (spelling!)

The Kent Tooling box was great. Perfect for travelling despite its weight as it could be flat packed and would easily go in hand baggage (with the scrubber, head and handsets!). It is a bit of meccano set but very well made and very robust (if you've seen a Jan box it is just like that). It is quite a big brute though and quite negative. I made the mistake of taking two 7 litre steel bailouts on a dive to Elphinstone and even with my thick covering of 'bioprene' and 6.5mm semi-dry, I had the wing so inflated that it OPV on it was activated and everyone kept saying there was a problem with my unit! It would be my choice for travelling as it is very robust and a very stable platform on a boat. I've seen the DT Box and the Kent tooling is far better IMHO.

The Phi Box i used for a cave diving course and I know other people that have them and think they're great. I had the cylinders inverted and the trim was fantastic. It is very light and robust but not in the same way as the KT Box (not a criticism as the Phi Box is designed for a different purpose). It is very light and streamlined and makes a nice package for day to day use. However it is not that stable and on one occasion my brether did a back flip onto the floor from the table. Saying that all that happened was a minor dent on the box (and a whole lot of embarrasement on my behalf).

The DES Titanium box is a brute but if money is no object then this is definitely the material to use. There were a few design features that I was uncomfortable with (use of velcro for attaching the manifold, rubber grommets for the hoses never stayed in place and the tendency for the back cover to come undone when jumping into the water). A great unit, light and very strong but very expensive, nicely streamlined but not as much flexibility and mounting options as on other units

Inspiration Chassis
Latest News from Enrique
I have made some major improvements to the Inspiration Chassis:

The stainless steel unit is fitted with a titanium four-position adjustable-height bottom cage to compensate for different divers of different heights. The backing plate can also be mounted in 3 different positions.
The unit comes with a square brass manifold that attaches to the inside of the chassis with marine grade Velcro. This manifold has more outlets than the stock one on the Inspiration, since no space is wasted for the mounting screws.
You will see two holes in the bottom of the chassis, with rubber grommets. These are for the hoses to run through to the inside of the unit and protect them from getting damaged.
The new stainless and titanium models will be available with an optional under-arm bottle mounting bracket. The whole bracket will be detachable when not needed.

Compared with the old Inspiration Chassis below, the new model is lighter, simpler, more streamlined, and more adjustable. The unit in the photos below is stainless steel, but I am also making them in Titanium. The stainless model weighs 20 lbs and the titanium model weighs 12 lbs.

At a guess prices were £700 for DES Box
£300 for Kent Tooling with Q/Rs
£200 ish for Phi Box (Travelframe)

jkaterenchuk · 14th August 2006, 13:02

You can check out this website for a frame that breaks down into pieces and seems to be strong enough for everyday use.

www.divingproducts.co.uk

nmanfield · 14th August 2006, 13:03

Some photos

decoweenie · 14th August 2006, 13:06

I see rust spots...

Do you still have any of those frames, Nick ?

nmanfield · 14th August 2006, 13:15

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

I see rust spots...

Do you still have any of those frames, Nick ?

Hi Mate, The rust spot is entirely my own fault! It was a non Stainless Steel washer that got into the bag o bits that came with the box (everything including spanners is included). A bit of wire wool afterwards and it was fine.

I sold the Travel frame to Mike at Protec in Mexico - for cave diving your box made a very nicely trimmed unit especially with the Cylinders inverted (there's a separate thread right there!).

The Kent tooling box was sold after I sold my Inspiration. I really liked that too and had it for a total of 1 week before selling it.

The DES box is sitting back in the UK. I haven't got round to selling it yet. I know you said you might be interested a while back - could be a great excuse for me to have a go at that 120meter deep Sub i know you guys have got over there

ATB

Nick

decoweenie · 14th August 2006, 13:19

Quote: (Originally Posted by nmanfield)

The DES box is sitting back in the UK. I haven't got round to selling it yet. I know you said you might be interested a while back - could be a great excuse for me to have a go at that 120meter deep Sub i know you guys have got over there

Come on then...

We are planning to dive it in October. Bring the DES box with you when you come.

You are welcomed to dive one of my "lowly" Classic YBOD units if you don't want to bring your Meg...

You could borrow the heavier stuffs (tanks, stages, etc) from me if you wish as well.

nmanfield · 14th August 2006, 13:32

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Come on then...

We are planning to dive it in October. Bring the DES box with you when you come.

You are welcomed to dive one of my "lowly" Classic YBOD units if you don't want to bring your Meg...

You could borrow the heavier stuffs (tanks, stages, etc) from me if you wish as well.

Ooooh! very tempting. Wreck diving in Crimea at the end of the month, Back in UK at the start of september, pick up DES box, back to Ukraine, fly Kiev to UAE in October. Sounds very possible.

Please PM with more mouthwatering details!

ATB

Nick

colinicky · 14th August 2006, 13:52

I have a complete Vision case .delivered to me last January (clip version not hinges) dived 4-5 times before I ripped it apart to put the guts into a Kent Tooling frame which I now worship (yes its negative but it allows me to dive with no lead instead of 9kgs ) .
So if anyone want a case make me an offer .I also have a complete medium vision harness with weight pockets that may be available depending on Phi .

14th August 2006, 10:05	#1 (permalink)
Pugwash New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 45	Which Frame Following one of those remarkable Egyptian miracles where something gets left in the office for one night, taken out of the box by absolutely nobody, smashed, and returned to the box (upsidedown) with NO-ONE SEEING ANYTHING I am now either in the market for a replacement black case or a replacement frame. It is all rather annoying, the unit has only done 20 hours, and was pristine. Now the base of the black case is comprehensively smashed - indictactive of someone perhaps trying it on and then dropping it. Fortunately there was no other damage and it is still safely diveable after some adjustment with a sharp knife and some gaffer tape, otherwise there would have been a mass-dismissal of staff! Malesh! (Arabic: sh*t happens / oh-well / that's life). If I don't go down the standard butty-box route, my requirements are for a frame robust enough for daily use, but light enough for travel. I don't yet do mix or big deco, but that is the future intention. It must be able to utilise the standard 22 kg wing, and perhaps also the standard harness. What do you recommend (with prices and weights if you know them), and what you suggest I steer clear of? Thanks in advance Dan
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14th August 2006, 10:27	#2 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: Which Frame If it was an Evolution, I have a perfectly brand new (never seen water) Evolution case for sale. When it arrived, I simply took the scrubber+reg assembly off and toss everything in the back of the dive room. Same offer for anyone else looking for an Evolution case. And 2 brand new 2L tanks are also available. If you decide on the Travel-Frame, we have exactly 1 left with perforated lid. After that is sold, we will go into wait-list mode... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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14th August 2006, 12:39	#3 (permalink)
nmanfield Megalegalegalegadingdong! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Odessa, Ukraine Posts: 329	Re: Which Frame Quote: (Originally Posted by Pugwash) Following one of those remarkable Egyptian miracles where something gets left in the office for one night, taken out of the box by absolutely nobody, smashed, and returned to the box (upsidedown) with NO-ONE SEEING ANYTHING I am now either in the market for a replacement black case or a replacement frame. It is all rather annoying, the unit has only done 20 hours, and was pristine. Now the base of the black case is comprehensively smashed - indictactive of someone perhaps trying it on and then dropping it. Fortunately there was no other damage and it is still safely diveable after some adjustment with a sharp knife and some gaffer tape, otherwise there would have been a mass-dismissal of staff! Malesh! (Arabic: sht happens / oh-well / that's life). If I don't go down the standard butty-box route, my requirements are for a frame robust enough for daily use, but light enough for travel. I don't yet do mix or big deco, but that is the future intention. It must be able to utilise the standard 22 kg wing, and perhaps also the standard harness. What do you recommend (with prices and weights if you know them), and what you suggest I steer clear of? Thanks in advance Dan Hi Dan, Being a complete kit wh@re I have experience in many of the current frames out there. When i had my Inspiration I had 3 different frames: Kent tooling, Phi Box and a DES Titanium box. All with different advantages and disadvantages. There are others on the market at the moment most notably (IMHO) the Aluminium or titanium boxes by Michael Hearn (spelling!) The Kent Tooling box was great. Perfect for travelling despite its weight as it could be flat packed and would easily go in hand baggage (with the scrubber, head and handsets!). It is a bit of meccano set but very well made and very robust (if you've seen a Jan box it is just like that). It is quite a big brute though and quite negative. I made the mistake of taking two 7 litre steel bailouts on a dive to Elphinstone and even with my thick covering of 'bioprene' and 6.5mm semi-dry, I had the wing so inflated that it OPV on it was activated and everyone kept saying there was a problem with my unit! It would be my choice for travelling as it is very robust and a very stable platform on a boat. I've seen the DT Box and the Kent tooling is far better IMHO. The Phi Box i used for a cave diving course and I know other people that have them and think they're great. I had the cylinders inverted and the trim was fantastic. It is very light and robust but not in the same way as the KT Box (not a criticism as the Phi Box is designed for a different purpose). It is very light and streamlined and makes a nice package for day to day use. However it is not that stable and on one occasion my brether did a back flip onto the floor from the table. Saying that all that happened was a minor dent on the box (and a whole lot of embarrasement on my behalf). The DES Titanium box is a brute but if money is no object then this is definitely the material to use. There were a few design features that I was uncomfortable with (use of velcro for attaching the manifold, rubber grommets for the hoses never stayed in place and the tendency for the back cover to come undone when jumping into the water). A great unit, light and very strong but very expensive, nicely streamlined but not as much flexibility and mounting options as on other units Inspiration Chassis* Latest News from Enrique I have made some major improvements to the Inspiration Chassis: The stainless steel unit is fitted with a titanium four-position adjustable-height bottom cage to compensate for different divers of different heights. The backing plate can also be mounted in 3 different positions. The unit comes with a square brass manifold that attaches to the inside of the chassis with marine grade Velcro. This manifold has more outlets than the stock one on the Inspiration, since no space is wasted for the mounting screws. You will see two holes in the bottom of the chassis, with rubber grommets. These are for the hoses to run through to the inside of the unit and protect them from getting damaged. The new stainless and titanium models will be available with an optional* under-arm bottle mounting bracket. The whole bracket will be detachable when not needed.* Compared with the old Inspiration Chassis below, the new model is lighter, simpler, more streamlined, and more adjustable. The unit in the photos below is stainless steel, but I am also making them in Titanium. The stainless model weighs 20 lbs and the titanium model weighs 12 lbs. At a guess prices were £700 for DES Box £300 for Kent Tooling with Q/Rs £200 ish for Phi Box (Travelframe) __________________ Tub 'O Lard Last edited by nmanfield : 14th August 2006 at 12:56.
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14th August 2006, 13:02	#4 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk . Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lititz, PA Posts: 1,041	Re: Which Frame You can check out this website for a frame that breaks down into pieces and seems to be strong enough for everyday use. www.divingproducts.co.uk
(Online)

14th August 2006, 13:06	#6 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: Which Frame I see rust spots... Do you still have any of those frames, Nick ? __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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14th August 2006, 13:15	#7 (permalink)
nmanfield Megalegalegalegadingdong! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Odessa, Ukraine Posts: 329	Re: Which Frame Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) I see rust spots... Do you still have any of those frames, Nick ? Hi Mate, The rust spot is entirely my own fault! It was a non Stainless Steel washer that got into the bag o bits that came with the box (everything including spanners is included). A bit of wire wool afterwards and it was fine. I sold the Travel frame to Mike at Protec in Mexico - for cave diving your box made a very nicely trimmed unit especially with the Cylinders inverted (there's a separate thread right there!). The Kent tooling box was sold after I sold my Inspiration. I really liked that too and had it for a total of 1 week before selling it. The DES box is sitting back in the UK. I haven't got round to selling it yet. I know you said you might be interested a while back - could be a great excuse for me to have a go at that 120meter deep Sub i know you guys have got over there ATB Nick __________________ Tub 'O Lard
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14th August 2006, 13:19	#8 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: Which Frame Quote: (Originally Posted by nmanfield) The DES box is sitting back in the UK. I haven't got round to selling it yet. I know you said you might be interested a while back - could be a great excuse for me to have a go at that 120meter deep Sub i know you guys have got over there Come on then... We are planning to dive it in October. Bring the DES box with you when you come. You are welcomed to dive one of my "lowly" Classic YBOD units if you don't want to bring your Meg... You could borrow the heavier stuffs (tanks, stages, etc) from me if you wish as well. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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14th August 2006, 13:32	#9 (permalink)
nmanfield Megalegalegalegadingdong! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Odessa, Ukraine Posts: 329	Re: Which Frame Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Come on then... We are planning to dive it in October. Bring the DES box with you when you come. You are welcomed to dive one of my "lowly" Classic YBOD units if you don't want to bring your Meg... You could borrow the heavier stuffs (tanks, stages, etc) from me if you wish as well. Ooooh! very tempting. Wreck diving in Crimea at the end of the month, Back in UK at the start of september, pick up DES box, back to Ukraine, fly Kiev to UAE in October. Sounds very possible. Please PM with more mouthwatering details! ATB Nick __________________ Tub 'O Lard
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14th August 2006, 13:52	#10 (permalink)
colinicky RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: uk Posts: 678	vision case available I have a complete Vision case .delivered to me last January (clip version not hinges) dived 4-5 times before I ripped it apart to put the guts into a Kent Tooling frame which I now worship (yes its negative but it allows me to dive with no lead instead of 9kgs ) . So if anyone want a case make me an offer .I also have a complete medium vision harness with weight pockets that may be available depending on Phi . __________________ Colin I trust my rebreather completely , I just don't trust the user onwards & downwards
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