Apeks first stage marking in Classic

Andrew-John · 30th July 2006, 19:15

Hi,
The marking >/= 10 deg C in the first stages worries me a little bit.

All my 86 hours since i bought my gear have been executed in water temperatures lower than ten degrees C and that's the way I'll continue in the future.

Should I do something about this or just cross my fingers?

Are there any experiences concerning diving in low water temperatures using
described first stages?

Andrew-John

Dutchy · 30th July 2006, 19:28

Just don't use it above the water as it cannot get its heat from the surrounding air as easy as it can in the water. Only time ever I froze one was above the water...

jptaylor9 · 30th July 2006, 19:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by Andrew-John)

All my 86 hours since i bought my gear have been executed in water temperatures lower than ten degrees C

Doesn't this answer your question?

This is from APD's web site (Inspiration technical spec.):

Rebreather Operating Temperature Range:

+4°C to +32°C
Short term air storage (hours): -10°C to +50°C
Long term storage: +5°C to +20°C

JT

Andrew-John · 31st July 2006, 08:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by jptaylor9)

Doesn't this answer your question?

This is from APD's web site (Inspiration technical spec.):

Rebreather Operating Temperature Range:

+4°C to +32°C
Short term air storage (hours): -10°C to +50°C
Long term storage: +5°C to +20°C

JT

Not completely. (Sorry for my somewhat theoretical question!) In practice, we have been diving at these low temperatures for very long time with only few problems and very seldom have the first stages failed.

Dutchy pointed out that breathing above water should be avoided at low (say +4 ... -15o C air temperatures. That means in practise that pre breathing during check up tests should be carried out e.g. in a vehicle, heated tent or house.

Actually the water temperature here during winter varies between -0,8...4 degrees C depending on its salt concentration. The lowest values being just under the ice

The point of my poorly formulated question is:

a) Could or should the first stages be modified for better temperature tolerability?

b) Or should I just replace them with the same brand first stage regs of my OC package and loose the CE compliancy?

c) Just let it be?

Regs A-J

jhaaja · 31st July 2006, 08:43

Quote: (Originally Posted by Andrew-John)

Not completely. (Sorry for my somewhat theoretical question!) In practice, we have been diving at these low temperatures for very long time with only few problems and very seldom have the first stages failed.

Dutchy pointed out that breathing above water should be avoided at low (say +4 ... -15o C air temperatures. That means in practise that pre breathing during check up tests should be carried out e.g. in a vehicle, heated tent or house.

Actually the water temperature here during winter varies between -0,8...4 degrees C depending on its salt concentration. The lowest values being just under the ice

The point of my poorly formulated question is:

a) Could or should the first stages be modified for better temperature tolerability?

b) Or should I just replace them with the same brand first stage regs of my OC package and loose the CE compliancy?

c) Just let it be?

Regs A-J

If the first stage s are wet (like after the first dive) they will freeze in the winter on the surface. Under water I see no real risk because the flow rates are so low and water usually does not go below 0C.

So in the winter you should leave the rig under water to avoid freezing. You can do normal prebreathing on the surface, but sometimes I have had my flabber valves frozen inside the mouthpiece (there has been enough moisture after wash etc.) Then the only way is to to melt the mouthpiece in the water and do the prebreathe after that on the surface or in the shallows.

I have also changed my O2 1st stage to an Apeks DST. The reason was that the original SeemanSub started creep high on IP. The dil 1st stage is still the original. If you want you can use those DSTs, but when you need to tune the IP you first have to unscrew the dryseal from the 1st stage. That takes maybe 10sec so it is not an issue if you have the correct tool.

JH

Andrew-John · 31st July 2006, 08:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by jhaaja)

I have also cahnged my O2 1st stage to an Apeks DST. The reason was that the original SeemanSub started creep high on IP. The dil 1st stage is still the original. If you want you can use those DSTs, but when you need to tune the IP you first have to unscrew the dryseal from the 1st stage. That takes maybe 10sec so it is not an issue if you have the correct tool.

Thanks -all clear now!

A-J

***Beanie*** · 31st July 2006, 09:06

Quote: (Originally Posted by jhaaja)

I have also cahnged my O2 1st stage to an Apeks DST. The reason was that the original SeemanSub started creep high on IP. The dil 1st stage is still the original. If you want you can use those DSTs, but when you need to tune the IP you first have to unscrew the dryseal from the 1st stage. That takes maybe 10sec so it is not an issue if you have the correct tool.

The DS 1st stages are not recommened as there IP can creep up with depth.

jhaaja · 31st July 2006, 09:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by Beanie)

The DS 1st stages are not recommened as there IP can creep up with depth.

Yes, I am aware of that. I usually run it around 7bar. Would be nice to see some actual figures of the creep. I think we have had this same discussion earlier too...

JH

Andrew-John · 31st July 2006, 09:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by Beanie)

The DS 1st stages are not recommened as there IP can creep up with depth.

To my understanding IP could creep if the acting springs would be unlinear or there would be poor design in the construction?

A-J

jhaaja · 31st July 2006, 09:33

I have read about it but to me it is still a bit unclear why this would happen. I have been told that the small plastic "piston" is the culprit. For me it is hard to understand why/how that would cause it...

JH

30th July 2006, 19:15	#1 (permalink)
Andrew-John New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Helsinki Posts: 26	Apeks first stage marking in Classic Hi, The marking >/= 10 deg C in the first stages worries me a little bit. All my 86 hours since i bought my gear have been executed in water temperatures lower than ten degrees C and that's the way I'll continue in the future. Should I do something about this or just cross my fingers? Are there any experiences concerning diving in low water temperatures using described first stages? Andrew-John __________________ The Truth is down There!
(Offline)

30th July 2006, 19:28	#2 (permalink)
Dutchy Rene Warries Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Nieuwegein (The Netherlands) Posts: 837	Re: Apeks first stage marking in Classic Just don't use it above the water as it cannot get its heat from the surrounding air as easy as it can in the water. Only time ever I froze one was above the water... __________________ = This post is environmentally friendly. It is composed of 100% recycled electrons only. =
(Online)

30th July 2006, 19:50	#3 (permalink)
jptaylor9 Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 316	Re: Apeks first stage marking in Classic Quote: (Originally Posted by Andrew-John) All my 86 hours since i bought my gear have been executed in water temperatures lower than ten degrees C Doesn't this answer your question? This is from APD's web site (Inspiration technical spec.): Rebreather Operating Temperature Range: +4°C to +32°C Short term air storage (hours): -10°C to +50°C Long term storage: +5°C to +20°C JT
(Online)

31st July 2006, 08:36	#4 (permalink)
Andrew-John New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Helsinki Posts: 26	Re: Apeks first stage marking in Classic Quote: (Originally Posted by jptaylor9) Doesn't this answer your question? This is from APD's web site (Inspiration technical spec.): Rebreather Operating Temperature Range: +4°C to +32°C Short term air storage (hours): -10°C to +50°C Long term storage: +5°C to +20°C JT Not completely. (Sorry for my somewhat theoretical question!) In practice, we have been diving at these low temperatures for very long time with only few problems and very seldom have the first stages failed. Dutchy pointed out that breathing above water should be avoided at low (say +4 ... -15o C air temperatures. That means in practise that pre breathing during check up tests should be carried out e.g. in a vehicle, heated tent or house. Actually the water temperature here during winter varies between -0,8...4 degrees C depending on its salt concentration. The lowest values being just under the ice The point of my poorly formulated question is: a) Could or should the first stages be modified for better temperature tolerability? b) Or should I just replace them with the same brand first stage regs of my OC package and loose the CE compliancy? c) Just let it be? Regs A-J __________________ The Truth is down There!
(Offline)

31st July 2006, 08:43	#5 (permalink)
jhaaja Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 885	Re: Apeks first stage marking in Classic Quote: (Originally Posted by Andrew-John) Not completely. (Sorry for my somewhat theoretical question!) In practice, we have been diving at these low temperatures for very long time with only few problems and very seldom have the first stages failed. Dutchy pointed out that breathing above water should be avoided at low (say +4 ... -15o C air temperatures. That means in practise that pre breathing during check up tests should be carried out e.g. in a vehicle, heated tent or house. Actually the water temperature here during winter varies between -0,8...4 degrees C depending on its salt concentration. The lowest values being just under the ice The point of my poorly formulated question is: a) Could or should the first stages be modified for better temperature tolerability? b) Or should I just replace them with the same brand first stage regs of my OC package and loose the CE compliancy? c) Just let it be? Regs A-J If the first stage s are wet (like after the first dive) they will freeze in the winter on the surface. Under water I see no real risk because the flow rates are so low and water usually does not go below 0C. So in the winter you should leave the rig under water to avoid freezing. You can do normal prebreathing on the surface, but sometimes I have had my flabber valves frozen inside the mouthpiece (there has been enough moisture after wash etc.) Then the only way is to to melt the mouthpiece in the water and do the prebreathe after that on the surface or in the shallows. I have also changed my O2 1st stage to an Apeks DST. The reason was that the original SeemanSub started creep high on IP. The dil 1st stage is still the original. If you want you can use those DSTs, but when you need to tune the IP you first have to unscrew the dryseal from the 1st stage. That takes maybe 10sec so it is not an issue if you have the correct tool. JH Last edited by jhaaja : 31st July 2006 at 09:13.
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31st July 2006, 08:50	#6 (permalink)
Andrew-John New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Helsinki Posts: 26	Re: Apeks first stage marking in Classic Quote: (Originally Posted by jhaaja) I have also cahnged my O2 1st stage to an Apeks DST. The reason was that the original SeemanSub started creep high on IP. The dil 1st stage is still the original. If you want you can use those DSTs, but when you need to tune the IP you first have to unscrew the dryseal from the 1st stage. That takes maybe 10sec so it is not an issue if you have the correct tool. Thanks -all clear now! A-J __________________ The Truth is down There!
(Offline)

31st July 2006, 09:06	#7 (permalink)
*Beanie* Gallery Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In da house! yeah baby! Posts: 3,292	Re: Apeks first stage marking in Classic Quote: (Originally Posted by jhaaja) I have also cahnged my O2 1st stage to an Apeks DST. The reason was that the original SeemanSub started creep high on IP. The dil 1st stage is still the original. If you want you can use those DSTs, but when you need to tune the IP you first have to unscrew the dryseal from the 1st stage. That takes maybe 10sec so it is not an issue if you have the correct tool. The DS 1st stages are not recommened as there IP can creep up with depth. __________________ Beanie Gallery Admin & Library Assistant. www.outlawdivers.org.uk www.beandiving.co.uk www.beanengineering.co.uk
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31st July 2006, 09:12	#8 (permalink)
jhaaja Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 885	Re: Apeks first stage marking in Classic Quote: (Originally Posted by Beanie) The DS 1st stages are not recommened as there IP can creep up with depth. Yes, I am aware of that. I usually run it around 7bar. Would be nice to see some actual figures of the creep. I think we have had this same discussion earlier too... JH
(Offline)

31st July 2006, 09:25	#9 (permalink)
Andrew-John New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Helsinki Posts: 26	Re: Apeks first stage marking in Classic Quote: (Originally Posted by Beanie) The DS 1st stages are not recommened as there IP can creep up with depth. To my understanding IP could creep if the acting springs would be unlinear or there would be poor design in the construction? A-J __________________ The Truth is down There!
(Offline)

31st July 2006, 09:33	#10 (permalink)
jhaaja Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 885	Re: Apeks first stage marking in Classic I have read about it but to me it is still a bit unclear why this would happen. I have been told that the small plastic "piston" is the culprit. For me it is hard to understand why/how that would cause it... JH
(Offline)

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