Evo - Page 3

diverklondike · 24th May 2006, 00:30

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gillenvy)

....and joe is, or at least was a few months ago, the only west coast instructor listed on the diverite web sight...he, on the other hand, has some financial stake in the success of the optima and a bit of a corner on that market.

Both peter and Joe, in my experience with talking with them both, are very knowledgable and experienced and dedicated to what they believe in ...so much so that both their careers are connected to the industry...lucky them!

Hmmm I think you may be confusing "Joe's" here... Joe Radomski lives on the east coast and is part of ANDI... Are you refering to Joe Dituri??? He does live on the west coast and is part of IANTD..

Dive Safe...

Mark

**Gill Envy** · 24th May 2006, 00:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike)

Hmmm I think you may be confusing "Joe's" here... Joe Radomski lives on the east coast and is part of ANDI... Are you refering to Joe Dituri??? He does live on the west coast and is part of IANTD..

Dive Safe...

Mark

woops, my mistake, correction made, thanks for catching that. ... my overall point is more or less the same.

tupicaso · 24th May 2006, 02:20

Dituri doesn't own part of Optima or Dive Rite. He only owns part of IANTD.

tupicaso.

Pinky & The CCR · 24th May 2006, 12:27

Quote: (Originally Posted by mattwave)

Peter Den Haan is an excellent instructor and his crudentials are I am sure higher than whom has replied on your thread. I would listen to him foremost and trust his input.

so says matt Den Haan

(biased or unbiased

) , always an agenda

, never a contributor

BTW it is spelled credentials or did you mean crud...

***jradomski*** · 24th May 2006, 13:21

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gillenvy)

Both peter and Joe, it seems, are very knowledgable and experienced and dedicated to what they believe in ...so much so that both their careers are connected to the industry...lucky them!

Morral of the story, just like with dive stores, it seems best to take everything you hear with a grain of salt, corroberating the added experience and bias of a given instructor or promoter with opinion from those who may be less experienced but who have no vested interest.

For me, weighing all this out made choosing a rebreather a rather involved task...Luckily I had a lot of people in my area to compare opinions. everyone seems to have their alliances that scew their opinnions, even if it's just that they own a particular unit and are proud of it, and now that i've settled on one that includes me.

Gil,
I have no financial stake in ANY Rebreather.. I look at every one equally..
I have no problems praising the plus of any unit as well as the downsides.. Like I have always said, with every advantage comes a disadvantage..

I like alot of the features on the Vision, but it was probably rushed to market a bit early.. The Nitrox bug was a biggie, and has me wondering are there any other hidden stuff that hasn't surfaced yet..

A year ago when friends asked me what to buy a vision or a HH, my answer was simple.. If you want to be a beta tester buy the vision.. There are bound to be bugs that have to be fixed.. My answer was for them to wait atleast 6 months (it wouldnt have been long enough).. If they wanted a unit immediately my choice was the HH.. The vision is having the growing pains the HH had.. Kevin was lucky in that he had alot of serious divers pushing the HH hard so even obscure bugs were found quickly..

Present time, for my type of dives I prefer the HH.. I am still a little leary about POSSIBLE hidden bugs (but so far things look good) , but I wouldn't discourage a purchase to someone who wants it.. Its now a matter of personal preference and what the individual feels is necessary..

mattwave · 24th May 2006, 16:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by Pinky & The CCR)

so says matt Den Haan

(biased or unbiased

) , always an agenda

, never a contributor

BTW it is spelled credentials or did you mean crud...

Ahh, the spelling police are on patrol. I have been ticketed, I promise to pay my fine. You arouse a question though, are we all biased one way or another?

Excellent banter though pinky, with your 2 posts either an alias or just an unknown soldier screaming for justice.

Good luck with your agenda.

***caveseeker7*** · 24th May 2006, 19:15

Quote: (Originally Posted by mattwave)

You arouse a question though, are we all biased one way or another?

We probably are, but that doesn't mean we can't try and make fair posts.
The moment we deceide on a brand or model Rebreather we're likely to be biased
toward it, nothing wrong with that. Same with an instructor or agency
we've had good experiences with, and of course friends and family.

Some people get a bit overboard with praise, or have picked pet pieves
to bash, but for most part I believe we do reasonably well here.

**Gill Envy** · 25th May 2006, 23:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

Gil,
I have no financial stake in ANY Rebreather.. I look at every one equally..

joe,
I'm not saying i know you to be biassed. You seem very knowledgable and evenhanded and i enjoy reading what you contribute on this forum. when writing the corrected version of my original post, I guess i was equating your specilaizing in the instruction of the inspiration (at least that is what i gathered from looking over your web site) and writing the hammerhead part of the optima manual with having a connection to the industry that could be influencing your favoring hammerhead electronics and dual handsets.
But that said, it seems that anyone, weather they be part owner of a company, or a destributor of that companies products or someone who sells instruction on one of that company's products could as easily be doing so not to justs make money but because they truly believe in that product.
From what i know of peter den han (he was my instructor), he's promoting the product he believes in most, and i'm guessing you are too. My point is that someone who is looking to make a purchase of a new rebreather has to balance out the potential for partiality with all the experience that someone like yourself or peter obviously have.

***jradomski*** · 26th May 2006, 06:41

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gillenvy)

joe,
I'm not saying i know you to be biassed. You seem very knowledgable and evenhanded and i enjoy reading what you contribute on this forum. when writing the corrected version of my original post, I guess i was equating your specilaizing in the instruction of the inspiration (at least that is what i gathered from looking over your web site) and writing the hammerhead part of the optima manual with having a connection to the industry that could be influencing your favoring hammerhead electronics and dual handsets.
But that said, it seems that anyone, weather they be part owner of a company, or a destributor of that companies products or someone who sells instruction on one of that company's products could as easily be doing so not to justs make money but because they truly believe in that product.
From what i know of peter den han (he was my instructor), he's promoting the product he believes in most, and i'm guessing you are too. My point is that someone who is looking to make a purchase of a new rebreather has to balance out the potential for partiality with all the experience that someone like yourself or peter obviously have.

Juts to fill you in on a bit of history... While the HH was being developed I taked with Kevin alot (as did others).. When it came out there was alot to learn and no manual.. I put alot of time on it quickly and came to like it for the most part.. I offered to write the manual for Kevin as a favor, and I did because I liked the product..

You are right I do train the insp, I know the vision as well...

I also own and train on the KISS units, I have used an Infinito which I really liked (it only has 1 "handset" which is a beast :0 (see below)) its about the same in redundancy as the CIS in computer and power backups (see below).. and other units as well..

Also so my "beta tester" comment is not taken wrongly, several of us were effectively beta testers for the HH but we knew it ahead of time and got a significant discount on the units (about 1/3 of the past retail)

24th May 2006, 00:30	#21 (permalink)
diverklondike RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 1,714	Re: Evo Quote: (Originally Posted by Gillenvy) ....and joe is, or at least was a few months ago, the only west coast instructor listed on the diverite web sight...he, on the other hand, has some financial stake in the success of the optima and a bit of a corner on that market. Both peter and Joe, in my experience with talking with them both, are very knowledgable and experienced and dedicated to what they believe in ...so much so that both their careers are connected to the industry...lucky them! Hmmm I think you may be confusing "Joe's" here... Joe Radomski lives on the east coast and is part of ANDI... Are you refering to Joe Dituri??? He does live on the west coast and is part of IANTD.. Dive Safe... Mark
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24th May 2006, 00:56	#22 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Divers Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,348	Re: Evo Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike) Hmmm I think you may be confusing "Joe's" here... Joe Radomski lives on the east coast and is part of ANDI... Are you refering to Joe Dituri??? He does live on the west coast and is part of IANTD.. Dive Safe... Mark woops, my mistake, correction made, thanks for catching that. ... my overall point is more or less the same. __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°> Last edited by Gill Envy : 24th May 2006 at 01:11.
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24th May 2006, 02:20	#23 (permalink)
tupicaso New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: brazil Posts: 9	Re: Evo Dituri doesn't own part of Optima or Dive Rite. He only owns part of IANTD. tupicaso.
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24th May 2006, 12:27	#24 (permalink)
Pinky & The CCR Customise Me! Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: May 2006 Location: alaska Posts: 2	Re: Evo Quote: (Originally Posted by mattwave) Peter Den Haan is an excellent instructor and his crudentials are I am sure higher than whom has replied on your thread. I would listen to him foremost and trust his input. so says matt Den Haan (biased or unbiased ) , always an agenda , never a contributor BTW it is spelled credentials or did you mean crud... __________________ "I think so Brain , but we are already naked, Narf." Last edited by Pinky & The CCR : 24th May 2006 at 13:50.
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24th May 2006, 13:21	#25 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,115	Re: Evo Quote: (Originally Posted by Gillenvy) Both peter and Joe, it seems, are very knowledgable and experienced and dedicated to what they believe in ...so much so that both their careers are connected to the industry...lucky them! Morral of the story, just like with dive stores, it seems best to take everything you hear with a grain of salt, corroberating the added experience and bias of a given instructor or promoter with opinion from those who may be less experienced but who have no vested interest. For me, weighing all this out made choosing a rebreather a rather involved task...Luckily I had a lot of people in my area to compare opinions. everyone seems to have their alliances that scew their opinnions, even if it's just that they own a particular unit and are proud of it, and now that i've settled on one that includes me. Gil, I have no financial stake in ANY Rebreather.. I look at every one equally.. I have no problems praising the plus of any unit as well as the downsides.. Like I have always said, with every advantage comes a disadvantage.. I like alot of the features on the Vision, but it was probably rushed to market a bit early.. The Nitrox bug was a biggie, and has me wondering are there any other hidden stuff that hasn't surfaced yet.. A year ago when friends asked me what to buy a vision or a HH, my answer was simple.. If you want to be a beta tester buy the vision.. There are bound to be bugs that have to be fixed.. My answer was for them to wait atleast 6 months (it wouldnt have been long enough).. If they wanted a unit immediately my choice was the HH.. The vision is having the growing pains the HH had.. Kevin was lucky in that he had alot of serious divers pushing the HH hard so even obscure bugs were found quickly.. Present time, for my type of dives I prefer the HH.. I am still a little leary about POSSIBLE hidden bugs (but so far things look good) , but I wouldn't discourage a purchase to someone who wants it.. Its now a matter of personal preference and what the individual feels is necessary.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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24th May 2006, 16:22	#26 (permalink)
mattwave New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 47	Re: Evo Quote: (Originally Posted by Pinky & The CCR) so says matt Den Haan (biased or unbiased ) , always an agenda , never a contributor BTW it is spelled credentials or did you mean crud... Ahh, the spelling police are on patrol. I have been ticketed, I promise to pay my fine. You arouse a question though, are we all biased one way or another? Excellent banter though pinky, with your 2 posts either an alias or just an unknown soldier screaming for justice. Good luck with your agenda.
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24th May 2006, 19:15	#27 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,561	Re: Evo Quote: (Originally Posted by mattwave) You arouse a question though, are we all biased one way or another? We probably are, but that doesn't mean we can't try and make fair posts. The moment we deceide on a brand or model Rebreather we're likely to be biased toward it, nothing wrong with that. Same with an instructor or agency we've had good experiences with, and of course friends and family. Some people get a bit overboard with praise, or have picked pet pieves to bash, but for most part I believe we do reasonably well here. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
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25th May 2006, 23:26	#28 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Divers Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,348	Re: Evo Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) Gil, I have no financial stake in ANY Rebreather.. I look at every one equally.. joe, I'm not saying i know you to be biassed. You seem very knowledgable and evenhanded and i enjoy reading what you contribute on this forum. when writing the corrected version of my original post, I guess i was equating your specilaizing in the instruction of the inspiration (at least that is what i gathered from looking over your web site) and writing the hammerhead part of the optima manual with having a connection to the industry that could be influencing your favoring hammerhead electronics and dual handsets. But that said, it seems that anyone, weather they be part owner of a company, or a destributor of that companies products or someone who sells instruction on one of that company's products could as easily be doing so not to justs make money but because they truly believe in that product. From what i know of peter den han (he was my instructor), he's promoting the product he believes in most, and i'm guessing you are too. My point is that someone who is looking to make a purchase of a new rebreather has to balance out the potential for partiality with all the experience that someone like yourself or peter obviously have. __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>
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26th May 2006, 06:41	#29 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,115	Re: Evo Quote: (Originally Posted by Gillenvy) joe, I'm not saying i know you to be biassed. You seem very knowledgable and evenhanded and i enjoy reading what you contribute on this forum. when writing the corrected version of my original post, I guess i was equating your specilaizing in the instruction of the inspiration (at least that is what i gathered from looking over your web site) and writing the hammerhead part of the optima manual with having a connection to the industry that could be influencing your favoring hammerhead electronics and dual handsets. But that said, it seems that anyone, weather they be part owner of a company, or a destributor of that companies products or someone who sells instruction on one of that company's products could as easily be doing so not to justs make money but because they truly believe in that product. From what i know of peter den han (he was my instructor), he's promoting the product he believes in most, and i'm guessing you are too. My point is that someone who is looking to make a purchase of a new rebreather has to balance out the potential for partiality with all the experience that someone like yourself or peter obviously have. Juts to fill you in on a bit of history... While the HH was being developed I taked with Kevin alot (as did others).. When it came out there was alot to learn and no manual.. I put alot of time on it quickly and came to like it for the most part.. I offered to write the manual for Kevin as a favor, and I did because I liked the product.. You are right I do train the insp, I know the vision as well... I also own and train on the KISS units, I have used an Infinito which I really liked (it only has 1 "handset" which is a beast :0 (see below)) its about the same in redundancy as the CIS in computer and power backups (see below).. and other units as well.. Also so my "beta tester" comment is not taken wrongly, several of us were effectively beta testers for the HH but we knew it ahead of time and got a significant discount on the units (about 1/3 of the past retail) __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated. Last edited by jradomski : 26th May 2006 at 06:46.
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