My head problems an update :(

divetheworld · 19th May 2006, 07:04

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon)

Simple Answer #1 - "An Evolution - you took payment and everything..."

funny as fck.

Lol.

Brent

Mark Chase · 19th May 2006, 09:14

Quote: (Originally Posted by GuyW)

And if I was AP and saw a third party HUD wired into the cells, that is the first thing I would remove if the unit was not working correctly. Be realistic. Why would they even consider buying into whether the HUD is working or not.

What after I phoned them specificly to make sure it was OK and they said no problem they would just ignore it?

And why create a fault with the HUD that two electrical enginears say can not be true?

ATB

Mark Chase

sven · 19th May 2006, 10:19

Quote: (Originally Posted by GuyW)

Guys, you need to remember that when we fix things at home we scrape around trying to workout how to fix it with the minimum cost, and make absolutely certain we have a fault before we replace something

When you are in the factory, you have piles of nice new parts, and you know that you get sued for NOT fixing things which subsequently fail and cause an accident, what are you going to do ? If something looks suspect, you replace it. In fact to me that is the value of getting something fixed by the factory, they don't mess around.

Ever had you car serviced ? Do they always want to replace the brake pads ? Ever wondered why ?

And if I was AP and saw a third party HUD wired into the cells, that is the first thing I would remove if the unit was not working correctly. Be realistic. Why would they even consider buying into whether the HUD is working or not.

Guy,

Yes, understand & support your point re: manufacturers rather replacing parts than waiting for an accident to happen. It's the niggly "little" things that are happening, which cost people unnecessarily and are highly frustrating:

In my case, AP were instructed (in writing) to repair the handset, no further confirmation from the customer (me) required as I had already accepted a worst case A$1000 bill. One of the first emails after a couple of weeks explained the delay "...trying to contact Barry Hallett to confirm the customer wants them to go ahead with the repair (UKP 150.--) ..."

They were instructed (in writing) which carrier and what service to use for posting it back. A further delay after another couple of weeks was explained by "... trying to get in touch with Barry Hallet to arrange the shipping back ..." They then decided to use another method of shipping (more costly).

They were instructed (in writing) not to put more than one item into the package, as it would otherwise have a value of more than A$1000 and incur import duty. The parcel sent back to Bazza contained two heads, and me and ??? were hit with extra A$60 each for the import duty.

Now that is listening to the customer ...

The delays and acting against written instructions cost me extra money for no gain. I missed out on two diving weekends away, not to mention the normal diving.

GuyW · 20th May 2006, 02:17

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

And why create a fault with the HUD that two electrical enginears say can not be true?

Mark - I am an electrical engineer and I can tell you that the presence of the HUD wired in in this manner is:
1. Extra impedance on the circuit;
2. Unreliable wiring

So if you are APD, who has done a lot of testing and CE certification, what would your position be on this ? It is a no-brainer.

Guy

divetheworld · 20th May 2006, 09:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by GuyW)

Mark - I am an electrical engineer and I can tell you that the presence of the HUD wired in in this manner is:
1. Extra impedance on the circuit;
2. Unreliable wiring

So if you are APD, who has done a lot of testing and CE certification, what would your position be on this ? It is a no-brainer.

Guy

The impedance is >10meg I understand. That right Uri?

DalesDiver · 20th May 2006, 09:57

Mark,
be vary wary when you get the head back, I bought a s/h unit last october, the head was at APD when I bought the box having it's second new handset in 6-8 months, I got the head straight from APD to me at the diveshow at Brum, did a few 80+ dives on it and it seemed to track ok.
The following week teaching a mod 1 course I was showing what happens when you turn on the unit, then the same what happens with a cell unplugged, thats when I got the shock of my life, it still worked with cell one unplugged and calibrated, after a few tests it transpired that 1 & 3 where joined together internally in the loom so where running identical readings ( On the couple of test dives I thought stupidly that I must have two very good cells...) so they where kicking cell two out.. the unit was running on one cell..

I returned the head, yes they repaired it with a s/hand loom (it says so on the work ticket that was still attached) and have had no explanation at all.

So the quality control and supposed testing is crap.
I have it on video of the unit with the cell unplugged and switching it on, and it comes up dive now? No chance........

I sold the unit on, and with another 20 hours since its return it's done another handset and not through abuse..

I will try and upload the video to my site and put a link to it if succsefull.

Andy Hayhurst
PSAI Instructor Trainer Examiner #15

Mark Chase · 20th May 2006, 10:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by GuyW)

Mark - I am an electrical engineer and I can tell you that the presence of the HUD wired in in this manner is:
1. Extra impedance on the circuit;
2. Unreliable wiring

So if you are APD, who has done a lot of testing and CE certification, what would your position be on this ? It is a no-brainer.

Guy

Tell me? how can a non crimping connector be any less reliable than the molex connectors? The molex are push in point of contact connectors relying on a leaf spring for contact. The non crimping connectors are screwed down and crush a gland of PB all around the two cables. I would have thought the latter was a more reliable fitting?

I have also watched the HUD being switched on an off and shorted out whilst connected to the hand sets and the cell readings don't even flicker

Uri and Andyp both independently and without prompting told me exactly the same thing. The voltage and the impedance was too low for this to be an issue.

None of which is that important. The point is I was told the HUD was giving me erratic cell readings. And I have never suffered from erratic cell readings so this cant be true.

ATB

Mark Chase

divetheworld · 20th May 2006, 15:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

Uri and Andyp both independently and without prompting told me exactly the same thing. The voltage was too low and the impedance too high for this to be an issue.

ATB

Mark Chase

Is what he means. And he is very right.

And to Mr Hayhurst...
Andy, thats fckin shocking. I'm speachless at the lethal incompetance of who-ever did that.
Everyone needs that heads up.

Brent.

Scuba_Vixen · 20th May 2006, 16:42

Hearing some of these "manufacturer's service" horror tales, makes my DIY appoach seem better every day.......

Darlene

Mdemon · 20th May 2006, 21:57

Cracked handsets... Is there any value in putting a thin coating of Aquasure round the cable end/base?

If a crack appears, at least there is a chance water won't get in until the crack gets noticed...

Thoughts?

19th May 2006, 07:04	#11 (permalink)
divetheworld Dive porn pimp Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Classic Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,630	Re: My head problems an update :( Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon) Simple Answer #1 - "An Evolution - you took payment and everything..." funny as fck. Lol. Brent __________________ Attitude and self praise is no reccomendation. Dont try to be a great man, just be a man and let history be the judge of you. *WWW.NARKEDAT90.CO.UK* *http://www.grpservices.com/pursuit/* Supporting Shearwater Research Products in Europe
(Offline)

19th May 2006, 09:14	#12 (permalink)
Mark Chase RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,821	Re: My head problems an update :( Quote: (Originally Posted by GuyW) And if I was AP and saw a third party HUD wired into the cells, that is the first thing I would remove if the unit was not working correctly. Be realistic. Why would they even consider buying into whether the HUD is working or not. What after I phoned them specificly to make sure it was OK and they said no problem they would just ignore it? And why create a fault with the HUD that two electrical enginears say can not be true? ATB Mark Chase __________________ See my "Doing It Chasey" video where I'm locked into a padded room, naked, with two ball bearings and within an Hour, I manage to lose one and break the other!!! Kevin Juergensen 16/11/08 [/quote]
(Offline)

19th May 2006, 10:19	#13 (permalink)
sven Blogs Admin / Forum Mod Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Posts: 551	Re: My head problems an update :( Quote: (Originally Posted by GuyW) Guys, you need to remember that when we fix things at home we scrape around trying to workout how to fix it with the minimum cost, and make absolutely certain we have a fault before we replace something When you are in the factory, you have piles of nice new parts, and you know that you get sued for NOT fixing things which subsequently fail and cause an accident, what are you going to do ? If something looks suspect, you replace it. In fact to me that is the value of getting something fixed by the factory, they don't mess around. Ever had you car serviced ? Do they always want to replace the brake pads ? Ever wondered why ? And if I was AP and saw a third party HUD wired into the cells, that is the first thing I would remove if the unit was not working correctly. Be realistic. Why would they even consider buying into whether the HUD is working or not. Guy, Yes, understand & support your point re: manufacturers rather replacing parts than waiting for an accident to happen. It's the niggly "little" things that are happening, which cost people unnecessarily and are highly frustrating: In my case, AP were instructed (in writing) to repair the handset, no further confirmation from the customer (me) required as I had already accepted a worst case A$1000 bill. One of the first emails after a couple of weeks explained the delay "...trying to contact Barry Hallett to confirm the customer wants them to go ahead with the repair (UKP 150.--) ..." They were instructed (in writing) which carrier and what service to use for posting it back. A further delay after another couple of weeks was explained by "... trying to get in touch with Barry Hallet to arrange the shipping back ..." They then decided to use another method of shipping (more costly). They were instructed (in writing) not to put more than one item into the package, as it would otherwise have a value of more than A$1000 and incur import duty. The parcel sent back to Bazza contained two heads, and me and ??? were hit with extra A$60 each for the import duty. Now that is listening to the customer ... The delays and acting against written instructions cost me extra money for no gain. I missed out on two diving weekends away, not to mention the normal diving. __________________ Regards, Sven The Sydney Project website: http://www.sydneyproject.com My Blog: http://sven.rebreatherworld.com "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain
(Offline)

20th May 2006, 02:17	#14 (permalink)
GuyW Old Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 61	Re: My head problems an update :( Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) And why create a fault with the HUD that two electrical enginears say can not be true? Mark - I am an electrical engineer and I can tell you that the presence of the HUD wired in in this manner is: 1. Extra impedance on the circuit; 2. Unreliable wiring So if you are APD, who has done a lot of testing and CE certification, what would your position be on this ? It is a no-brainer. Guy
(Offline)

20th May 2006, 09:39	#15 (permalink)
divetheworld Dive porn pimp Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Classic Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,630	Re: My head problems an update :( Quote: (Originally Posted by GuyW) Mark - I am an electrical engineer and I can tell you that the presence of the HUD wired in in this manner is: 1. Extra impedance on the circuit; 2. Unreliable wiring So if you are APD, who has done a lot of testing and CE certification, what would your position be on this ? It is a no-brainer. Guy The impedance is >10meg I understand. That right Uri? __________________ Attitude and self praise is no reccomendation. Dont try to be a great man, just be a man and let history be the judge of you. *WWW.NARKEDAT90.CO.UK* *http://www.grpservices.com/pursuit/* Supporting Shearwater Research Products in Europe
(Offline)

20th May 2006, 09:57	#16 (permalink)
DalesDiver New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK Cumbria/Yorkshire Posts: 10	Re: My head problems an update :( Mark, be vary wary when you get the head back, I bought a s/h unit last october, the head was at APD when I bought the box having it's second new handset in 6-8 months, I got the head straight from APD to me at the diveshow at Brum, did a few 80+ dives on it and it seemed to track ok. The following week teaching a mod 1 course I was showing what happens when you turn on the unit, then the same what happens with a cell unplugged, thats when I got the shock of my life, it still worked with cell one unplugged and calibrated, after a few tests it transpired that 1 & 3 where joined together internally in the loom so where running identical readings ( On the couple of test dives I thought stupidly that I must have two very good cells...) so they where kicking cell two out.. the unit was running on one cell.. I returned the head, yes they repaired it with a s/hand loom (it says so on the work ticket that was still attached) and have had no explanation at all. So the quality control and supposed testing is crap. I have it on video of the unit with the cell unplugged and switching it on, and it comes up dive now? No chance........ I sold the unit on, and with another 20 hours since its return it's done another handset and not through abuse.. I will try and upload the video to my site and put a link to it if succsefull. Andy Hayhurst PSAI Instructor Trainer Examiner #15
(Offline)

20th May 2006, 10:10	#17 (permalink)
Mark Chase RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,821	Re: My head problems an update :( Quote: (Originally Posted by GuyW) Mark - I am an electrical engineer and I can tell you that the presence of the HUD wired in in this manner is: 1. Extra impedance on the circuit; 2. Unreliable wiring So if you are APD, who has done a lot of testing and CE certification, what would your position be on this ? It is a no-brainer. Guy Tell me? how can a non crimping connector be any less reliable than the molex connectors? The molex are push in point of contact connectors relying on a leaf spring for contact. The non crimping connectors are screwed down and crush a gland of PB all around the two cables. I would have thought the latter was a more reliable fitting? I have also watched the HUD being switched on an off and shorted out whilst connected to the hand sets and the cell readings don't even flicker Uri and Andyp both independently and without prompting told me exactly the same thing. The voltage and the impedance was too low for this to be an issue. None of which is that important. The point is I was told the HUD was giving me erratic cell readings. And I have never suffered from erratic cell readings so this cant be true. ATB Mark Chase __________________ See my "Doing It Chasey" video where I'm locked into a padded room, naked, with two ball bearings and within an Hour, I manage to lose one and break the other!!! Kevin Juergensen 16/11/08 [/quote]
(Offline)

20th May 2006, 15:10	#18 (permalink)
divetheworld Dive porn pimp Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Classic Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,630	Re: My head problems an update :( Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) Uri and Andyp both independently and without prompting told me exactly the same thing. The voltage was too low and the impedance too high for this to be an issue. ATB Mark Chase Is what he means. And he is very right. And to Mr Hayhurst... Andy, thats fckin shocking. I'm speachless at the lethal incompetance of who-ever did that. Everyone needs that heads up. Brent. __________________ Attitude and self praise is no reccomendation. Dont try to be a great man, just be a man and let history be the judge of you. *WWW.NARKEDAT90.CO.UK* *http://www.grpservices.com/pursuit/* Supporting Shearwater Research Products in Europe Last edited by divetheworld : 20th May 2006 at 15:13.
(Offline)

20th May 2006, 16:42	#19 (permalink)
Scuba_Vixen e/mCCR Dolphin Pilot Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: St. Croix USVI Posts: 557	Re: My head problems an update :( Hearing some of these "manufacturer's service" horror tales, makes my DIY appoach seem better every day....... Darlene
(Offline)

20th May 2006, 21:57	#20 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,940	Re: My head problems an update :( Cracked handsets... Is there any value in putting a thin coating of Aquasure round the cable end/base? If a crack appears, at least there is a chance water won't get in until the crack gets noticed... Thoughts? __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "small minds talk about people, Average Minds Talk About Events, GREAT MINDS TALK ABOUT IDEAS!" The WRONG Attitude will get you killed. "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
(Offline)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode