Juergensen Marine - HAMMERHEAD

RichClark

Guys,

Here's a question for all the Hammerhead users...

Why did you choose to use the hammerhead instead of the existing Inspo electronics; and would you have made the same decision if the vision electronics had been available at the time of purchase?

Cheers

Rich

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caveseeker7

Rich, I have neither an Inspiration nor a Hammerhead to go with it, but since it's been almost 6 hours since you posted I figure you might want to read some reply ... so here my thoughts.

The main reason I'm not fond of the Inspiration is the electronics layout.
Having two setpoint controllers that communicate with one another rather than a single setpoint controller and independent pO2 monitor is something that worries me and makes me uneasy. This is, of course, a very personal issue, but I simply can't get comfortable with the idea of loosing pO2 monitoring when the electronics go t.u..

The rest of said layout isn't all the much better, really, keeping both batteries inside the head (on earlier units unsealed) and in a single compartment for example.

Another major item is the lack of a HUD, something I believe to be a safety factor. Other niggles, like magnet corrosion for example, are more in the inconvenience category ... just seems ridiculous that the owner is expected to disassemble tha handsets and coat them with nail polish.

The Hammerhead changes all that, providing the pO2 monitor, HUD (with DIVA), placing batteries are in the handset (double sealed these days at 1 ata)and using piezo switches (current issue HH).

In addition there is of course the deco ability, as well as the dive timer info from the pO2 monitor.

The Evo changes the balance a bit, having the HUD, offering deco, up- and download capabilities (if it all works as planned ) and most importantly offering the TempStick monitor. The latter is a good tool in the box, especially for the smaller Evo. Cell tracking is also a step forward, although having the electronics rely on a single sensor for O2 injection scares me bit.

But that basic dual setpoint controller discomfort still lingers deep down in my gut. The batteries are sealed in Vision heads, which is good, and I'm undecided if sharing their ouput is better or worse (given the dependent controllers).

If you add the rather high price of the Vision upgrade, the fact that it'll increase if you want to keep your original bits as backup, and the ongoing software problems (which I'm sure will be sorted eventually but should already have been) I think my scale tips in favor of Kevin's electronics.

The "normal" electronics layout, at about 2/3 the price, including deco and DIVA, your old head as a backup for those days you feel adventurous and well sorted hard- and software ... the Hammerhead would be my preference.

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Cheers
Stefan



"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority,
and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"

decoweenie

Am I right to assume that you meant that 2 other sensors have gone bad, and the unit is down to a single sensor which the controller is using to maintain set-point ?

• What would you like for any unit to handle this situation ?
• How would you like to handle this situation ?

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diverklondike

Rich,

Good question....

I originally bought my HH before the Vision electronics were made available. For what it's worth I think we would still be waiting for Vision electronics if the HH had not showed up in the market to push AP along.

I will not repeat Stefen's comments since I am in agreement with most of them...

My 2 cents is that the HH package is still a better option when packaged with a well maintained used YBOD than a new on with vision electronics.

If I were buying another unit today it would probably be a "meg" with HH electronics...

Just my two cents...

Mark

caveseeker7

Yes, two sensor fallout in close proximity, the sensor tracking/verification recognizes that and uses the remaining sensor to control the setpoint. Instead of voting the remaining sensor out due the bad cell's proximity and (since bad sensors usually loose output) adding O2 under the assumption the lack thereof is the reason for the low output.

The PRISM has cell cell tracking/verification, when two sensors are bad the HUD signals that and the solenoid shuts down. The diver has the option to either stay CC and control the setpoint manually or use the unit in SC mode with a pO2 monitor.

I would use the latter gas supply permitting. If I stayed CC I would probably want to periodically confirm the sensor with dil flushes anyway.

Running the setpoint controller on a single cell just seems a bit risky, I rather not dive that way. Haven't mulled over it a lot since I don't have Vision electronics, but I guess you don't have to stay on auto setpoint control? Can the Vision be used without it while keeping the pO2 monitor?

On the HH you have to catch the bad cells yourself (all other CCRs too, afaik), but the solenoid can be shut down in the menue somewhere and you keep the dual readouts and HUD.

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Cheers
Stefan



"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority,
and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"

Blomman

Another factor to consider is service and support. It took me 4 weeks to get my handsets repaired after I got water in them due to a crack. How long time will it take for Juergensen Marine to do a full service from the day I send the package till I get it back?


// Blomman

decoweenie

Unless 2 cells are current limited, this scenario is VERY unlikely.

Have you ever seen a failed sensor while diving ? If so, when it failed, did it stay within the "reasonable" range ?

I have had a few, and no, never in the "working" range.

The Vision will have all sort of alarms going off to get your attention that 1 or 2 sensors have been voted out. The diver will have the same option to stay on CC or OC-bail-out.

The most usual course of action is do a diluent flush immediately to check the validity of the remaining sensor if the diver wants to remain on CC.

S/he could then reduce the set-point to low and get out of the water in manual mode. This prevents the solenoid from activating.

Or simply bail out to OC.

In another word, I see no difference between any unit in this situation: Vision, HH, Prism, etc. So IMHO, not a valid concern.

I have had the HH on 2 different units, and you don't see me dive either (Sorry Kevin )

On the other hand, after having dived the Vision, I feel that it is the best electronic control system I have ever used.

What electronic control system do you have ? Sorry, can't resist...

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Nick uk.

I don't want to teach any grannies to suck eggs or any 'Gorrilas to peel bananas' but i think the handsets on the inspo are 'indipendant' and analyse seperately the po2, the slave taking over from the master in case of a failure.

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caveseeker7

A Powerbook.

I see your point, and with the operation you describe it makes sense.
I still think that having tracking/verification is a good feature, why not
if it is possible.

__________________
Cheers
Stefan



"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority,
and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"

decoweenie

Of course I agree with you there.

AFAIK, the Vision does keep track of the sensors during the calibration phase. I will have to read/ask more about during diving...

Could you expand more how the Prism is tracking the sensors during the dive ? Is it a moving average system to recognize any spiking when the sensor goes bad ?

__________________
"...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..."

- Rebreather World PM