Inspiration Risk Assessment

scrunkhorn · 26th November 2005, 12:43

Hi all,

I need your assistance in a University project that I am working on. I have e-mailed a couple of Inspiration rebreather divers and they suggested that I put a post on Rebreather world for some assistance.

The project concerns theories of technology management and specifically Models that we all use to manage risk. To set it in the context of a real world situation I am considering this in terms of recreational use of the APD Inspiration.

I appreciate that not everyone will feel that they either should or could contribute to this and rather than send a detailed questionnaire I have posed only a few simple questions now. I would like to be able to post further if the need arises.

Your responses are not attributable to you in any way in the final report so you can remain anonymous. If you feel you would like to pass this request onto other inspiration users this is also OK. If you would prefer to e-mail your response rather than post it here that is also OK.

The questions:

In terms of your personal approach to Inspiration diving do you use formal methods, techniques to identify and manage risk?

Are these in any way specific to the APD Inspiration?

If you are subject to the Health and Safety at Work Act do you feel your approach fully meets the obligation you have to managing Inspiration related risk?

Does the training agency who sanctions your specific training mandate any specific risk management models and are they Inspiration specific?

If specific Inspiration risk management tools were available would you use them?

In your view what are the most significant Inspiration specific risks and how are these mitigated through dive planning?

I realise that we'd all rather be diving than posting answers to the above questions so all responses are greatly appreciated.

If you would like any further information before replying, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Regards,

Stephen

Mark Chase · 26th November 2005, 13:00

[quote=scrunkhorn]Hi all,

I need your assistance in a University project that I am working on. I have e-mailed a couple of Inspiration rebreather divers and they suggested that I put a post on Rebreather world for some assistance.

The questions:

Quote:

In terms of your personal approach to Inspiration diving do you use formal methods, techniques to identify and manage risk?

If my undersatnding of formal is corect: No... Formal to me involves result logging error reports and entrys inot safety and equipment maintinance manuals as i have to do for work and No I dont do this for recreational diving.

However if the question relates to a specific range of pre flight tests: Yes

Quote:

Are these in any way specific to the APD Inspiration?

Yes. There are of corse some prefliget checks that are the same for all units but each unit has its own little quirks.

Quote:

If you are subject to the Health and Safety at Work Act do you feel your approach fully meets the obligation you have to managing Inspiration related risk?

I am at work but not for recreational diving.

No my cheks wouldent pass muster at work. As Healthand safety manager and inspector I for example dont memo my self informing my self of a problem and the action taken by errrrrr ME as i have to do to comply with the crazey system at work.

Quote:

Does the training agency who sanctions your specific training mandate any specific risk management models and are they Inspiration specific?

APD provide a preflight check list and insist that all users of their units are properly trained to implimnet it.

Quote:

If specific Inspiration risk management tools were available would you use them?

I think I do but in an informal way

Quote:

In your view what are the most significant Inspiration specific risks and how are these mitigated through dive planning?

CO2 breakthrough

Following accepted guidlines on scrubber usage and packing

Failure of 02 cells

Following guidlines on usage and replacement of cells.

ATB

Mark Chase

CCR-Wrecker · 26th November 2005, 21:00

University project? sounds like a EBT.
Stephen, is this a law school project?
Sorry for feeling so paranoid, I dive the same way

Andy

CCR900 · 26th November 2005, 21:52

People's approach to risk when it comes to CCR is, in my opinion, defined by their profession.

I can only speak for myself, my risk assessment for anything involving CCR is based in VAR or (as you are aware) is Value at Risk. In other words; what will I get for taking risk?

APD and training agencies identify known risks and publish do and don'ts. A diver will choose to adhered to these parameters or not. I may break these rules only if I feel the value of taking that risk justifies the achievement. Even when the rules are adhered to there are no absolutes (sh*t happens), there are so many variables.

I work within the financial markets where management works tirelessly to identify risk as products become more exotic. There are two risks that they can never predict; the human factor & X factor (the one single event that no one knew existed). I would love to see them try and write up rules on CCR.

F

scrunkhorn · 2nd December 2005, 19:21

The University Project is not law based. It forms part of an MBA in Technology Management. The hyopthesis concerns formalised and theoretical approaches to risk management and is associated with the belief that the approaches to risk that we take as recreational divers is not sufficient for the demands of CCR diving. I am looking especially for feedback about how divers approach risk mitigation in terms of inspiration, especially where tools or specific techniques are employed.

I approeciate that all sounds a bit pompus so in a less technical sense:

I have reviewed the various coroners reports associated with Inspiration deaths and have formed the conclusion that in the bulk of cases these sad losses have little to do with Inspirations per se but with preventable human error.

Feel free to agree/disagee.

scrunkhorn · 2nd December 2005, 19:29

I have incidentaly no idea what EBT is.

scrunkhorn · 2nd December 2005, 19:34

Thanks Mark for your response.

CCR-Wrecker · 2nd December 2005, 19:37

Quote: (Originally Posted by scrunkhorn)

. The hyopthesis concerns formalised and theoretical approaches to risk management and is associated with the belief that the approaches to risk that we take as recreational divers is not sufficient for the demands of CCR diving.

Well, that's a scary sentence. The way I see it is: humans were not designed to survive underwater,CCR is just one way of "flying in the face of logic". Everytime I strap on my Inspiration I KNOW I'm dependant on it to keep me alive. I also know that if I don't use it properly it WILL result in my demise. That's the risk, if one can't accept it then another hobby is probably in order.
My$.02
Andy

kllr1876 · 11th April 2006, 14:26

personaly, i feel the risk is part of the alure of rebreathers, unlike oc divers that check there gauges rarely, we are forced to check ours every ffew minutes, and unlike oc divers a computer glicht is a major isue, if they have a computeer glitch they just call there dive a little sooner then normal, with us, the dive is over and makes thing 20 times harder on us if it doesnt kill us.

but in my mind the risk is worth the reward.

diverklondike · 11th April 2006, 14:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by kllr1876)

personaly, i feel the risk is part of the alure of rebreathers, unlike oc divers that check there gauges rarely, we are forced to check ours every ffew minutes, and unlike oc divers a computer glicht is a major isue, if they have a computeer glitch they just call there dive a little sooner then normal, with us, the dive is over and makes thing 20 times harder on us if it doesnt kill us.

but in my mind the risk is worth the reward.

Not sure if I agree with the checking guages part...

My 2 cents is that OC divers are always concerned about how much gas they have and it is a VERY FINAL limiting factor....

With the proper knowledge and bailout planning most things are much more managable CCR. For example... If both my primary and secondary electronics bite the dust.... My VR3 and fourth cell will get my a#*$( to the surface safely...

The one CCR reality is that it does provide many more ways for me to kill myself through pure stupidity and user error....

Dive Safe...

Mark

26th November 2005, 12:43	#1 (permalink)
scrunkhorn New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 5	Inspiration Risk Assessment Hi all, I need your assistance in a University project that I am working on. I have e-mailed a couple of Inspiration rebreather divers and they suggested that I put a post on Rebreather world for some assistance. The project concerns theories of technology management and specifically Models that we all use to manage risk. To set it in the context of a real world situation I am considering this in terms of recreational use of the APD Inspiration. I appreciate that not everyone will feel that they either should or could contribute to this and rather than send a detailed questionnaire I have posed only a few simple questions now. I would like to be able to post further if the need arises. Your responses are not attributable to you in any way in the final report so you can remain anonymous. If you feel you would like to pass this request onto other inspiration users this is also OK. If you would prefer to e-mail your response rather than post it here that is also OK. The questions: In terms of your personal approach to Inspiration diving do you use formal methods, techniques to identify and manage risk? Are these in any way specific to the APD Inspiration? If you are subject to the Health and Safety at Work Act do you feel your approach fully meets the obligation you have to managing Inspiration related risk? Does the training agency who sanctions your specific training mandate any specific risk management models and are they Inspiration specific? If specific Inspiration risk management tools were available would you use them? In your view what are the most significant Inspiration specific risks and how are these mitigated through dive planning? I realise that we'd all rather be diving than posting answers to the above questions so all responses are greatly appreciated. If you would like any further information before replying, please do not hesitate to contact me. Regards, Stephen
(Offline)

26th November 2005, 13:00	#2 (permalink)
Mark Chase RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,821	Re: Inspiration Risk Assessment [quote=scrunkhorn]Hi all, I need your assistance in a University project that I am working on. I have e-mailed a couple of Inspiration rebreather divers and they suggested that I put a post on Rebreather world for some assistance. The questions: Quote: In terms of your personal approach to Inspiration diving do you use formal methods, techniques to identify and manage risk? If my undersatnding of formal is corect: No... Formal to me involves result logging error reports and entrys inot safety and equipment maintinance manuals as i have to do for work and No I dont do this for recreational diving. However if the question relates to a specific range of pre flight tests: Yes Quote: Are these in any way specific to the APD Inspiration? Yes. There are of corse some prefliget checks that are the same for all units but each unit has its own little quirks. Quote: If you are subject to the Health and Safety at Work Act do you feel your approach fully meets the obligation you have to managing Inspiration related risk? I am at work but not for recreational diving. No my cheks wouldent pass muster at work. As Healthand safety manager and inspector I for example dont memo my self informing my self of a problem and the action taken by errrrrr ME as i have to do to comply with the crazey system at work. Quote: Does the training agency who sanctions your specific training mandate any specific risk management models and are they Inspiration specific? APD provide a preflight check list and insist that all users of their units are properly trained to implimnet it. Quote: If specific Inspiration risk management tools were available would you use them? I think I do but in an informal way Quote: In your view what are the most significant Inspiration specific risks and how are these mitigated through dive planning? CO2 breakthrough Following accepted guidlines on scrubber usage and packing Failure of 02 cells Following guidlines on usage and replacement of cells. ATB Mark Chase __________________ See my "Doing It Chasey" video where I'm locked into a padded room, naked, with two ball bearings and within an Hour, I manage to lose one and break the other!!! Kevin Juergensen 16/11/08 [/quote]
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26th November 2005, 21:00	#3 (permalink)
CCR-Wrecker aka NY-Andy Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New York Posts: 226	Re: Inspiration Risk Assessment University project? sounds like a EBT. Stephen, is this a law school project? Sorry for feeling so paranoid, I dive the same way Andy
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26th November 2005, 21:52	#4 (permalink)
CCR900 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: England Posts: 333	Re: Inspiration Risk Assessment People's approach to risk when it comes to CCR is, in my opinion, defined by their profession. I can only speak for myself, my risk assessment for anything involving CCR is based in VAR or (as you are aware) is Value at Risk. In other words; what will I get for taking risk? APD and training agencies identify known risks and publish do and don'ts. A diver will choose to adhered to these parameters or not. I may break these rules only if I feel the value of taking that risk justifies the achievement. Even when the rules are adhered to there are no absolutes (sh*t happens), there are so many variables. I work within the financial markets where management works tirelessly to identify risk as products become more exotic. There are two risks that they can never predict; the human factor & X factor (the one single event that no one knew existed). I would love to see them try and write up rules on CCR. F
(Offline)

2nd December 2005, 19:21	#5 (permalink)
scrunkhorn New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 5	Re: Inspiration Risk Assessment The University Project is not law based. It forms part of an MBA in Technology Management. The hyopthesis concerns formalised and theoretical approaches to risk management and is associated with the belief that the approaches to risk that we take as recreational divers is not sufficient for the demands of CCR diving. I am looking especially for feedback about how divers approach risk mitigation in terms of inspiration, especially where tools or specific techniques are employed. I approeciate that all sounds a bit pompus so in a less technical sense: I have reviewed the various coroners reports associated with Inspiration deaths and have formed the conclusion that in the bulk of cases these sad losses have little to do with Inspirations per se but with preventable human error. Feel free to agree/disagee.
(Offline)

2nd December 2005, 19:29	#6 (permalink)
scrunkhorn New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 5	Re: Inspiration Risk Assessment I have incidentaly no idea what EBT is.
(Offline)

2nd December 2005, 19:34	#7 (permalink)
scrunkhorn New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 5	Re: Inspiration Risk Assessment Thanks Mark for your response.
(Offline)

2nd December 2005, 19:37	#8 (permalink)
CCR-Wrecker aka NY-Andy Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New York Posts: 226	Re: Inspiration Risk Assessment Quote: (Originally Posted by scrunkhorn) . The hyopthesis concerns formalised and theoretical approaches to risk management and is associated with the belief that the approaches to risk that we take as recreational divers is not sufficient for the demands of CCR diving. Well, that's a scary sentence. The way I see it is: humans were not designed to survive underwater,CCR is just one way of "flying in the face of logic". Everytime I strap on my Inspiration I KNOW I'm dependant on it to keep me alive. I also know that if I don't use it properly it WILL result in my demise. That's the risk, if one can't accept it then another hobby is probably in order. My$.02 Andy
(Offline)

11th April 2006, 14:26	#9 (permalink)
kllr1876 New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: belleville ontario Posts: 15	Re: Inspiration Risk Assessment personaly, i feel the risk is part of the alure of rebreathers, unlike oc divers that check there gauges rarely, we are forced to check ours every ffew minutes, and unlike oc divers a computer glicht is a major isue, if they have a computeer glitch they just call there dive a little sooner then normal, with us, the dive is over and makes thing 20 times harder on us if it doesnt kill us. but in my mind the risk is worth the reward.
(Offline)

11th April 2006, 14:47	#10 (permalink)
diverklondike RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 1,699	Re: Inspiration Risk Assessment Quote: (Originally Posted by kllr1876) personaly, i feel the risk is part of the alure of rebreathers, unlike oc divers that check there gauges rarely, we are forced to check ours every ffew minutes, and unlike oc divers a computer glicht is a major isue, if they have a computeer glitch they just call there dive a little sooner then normal, with us, the dive is over and makes thing 20 times harder on us if it doesnt kill us. but in my mind the risk is worth the reward. Not sure if I agree with the checking guages part... My 2 cents is that OC divers are always concerned about how much gas they have and it is a VERY FINAL limiting factor.... With the proper knowledge and bailout planning most things are much more managable CCR. For example... If both my primary and secondary electronics bite the dust.... My VR3 and fourth cell will get my a#*$( to the surface safely... The one CCR reality is that it does provide many more ways for me to kill myself through pure stupidity and user error.... Dive Safe... Mark
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