Hammerhead's Delrin vs Vision Electronics

PCDiver · 5th September 2008, 11:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

The recommend cells (saft) are actually LiSOCl batteries and are pretty safe. The chemistry is not violent and the cells have built in protection mechanisms and the safts use a sealed stainless steel case... On an older HH I had a bad battery o-ring a the battery compartment flooded on its own..

It killed the battery but I just cleaned up the compartment with some vinegar (it was in salt water) and did the next dive..

Thanks. That's good to know.

***jradomski*** · 5th September 2008, 11:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino de Rijk)

This is really one for Joe to answer, as it is his "trick".... :-)

However, a while ago there was a long thread on the Inspo list about the effects of a Lithium battery submerged in salt water. Just out of curiousity, and to end the yes/no in that particular thread, I dropped a new CRP2 battery (also Lithium as you know) in a glass of very salt water. Result: some fizzing & bubbles, but certainly not an explosion or melting or so. Quite not-very-impressive all in all (with me silly sitting with a fire extinguisher ready next to it..).
However, the pressure build-up of the gas could ruin the electronics or housing I guess, but as Joe stated, these are ruined anyway in this scenario due to intentional flooding, and electronics ARE replaceable, a life is not.....

As the batteries are in the HH handset, it will not compromise the loop if it blows - which again is not very likely, given its quite structural strength. Opening it afterwards on the surface is another matter though.....

ciao,

Tino.

Lithium Managanese Dioxide (LiMnO2)
The CRP2 is in essence two 3V CR123A cells connected together in series to give a 6V battery. these cells are not hermetically sealed
from msds
Thermal degradation may produce hazardous fumes of
manganese and lithium; hydrofluoric acid; oxides of
carbon and sulfur and other toxic by-products.

wheras the saft cells are in hermetically sealed metallic (SS) container.. Only the c and d size cells can vent gas..

divetheworld · 5th September 2008, 12:05

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

Lithium Managanese Dioxide (LiMnO2)
The CRP2 is in essence two 3V CR123A cells connected together in series to give a 6V battery. these cells are not hermetically sealed
from msds
Thermal degradation may produce hazardous fumes of
manganese and lithium; hydrofluoric acid; oxides of
carbon and sulfur and other toxic by-products.

wheras the saft cells are in hermetically sealed metallic (SS) container.. Only the c and d size cells can vent gas..

The SAFT LS14500 is also instrinsicly safe to EN50020 which is the standard for electrical apparatus for potentially explosive atmosphere's.

Tino de Rijk · 5th September 2008, 12:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

Lithium Managanese Dioxide (LiMnO2)
The CRP2 is in essence two 3V CR123A cells connected together in series to give a 6V battery. these cells are not hermetically sealed
from msds
Thermal degradation may produce hazardous fumes of
manganese and lithium; hydrofluoric acid; oxides of
carbon and sulfur and other toxic by-products.

wheras the saft cells are in hermetically sealed metallic (SS) container.. Only the c and d size cells can vent gas..

Then again, they sit in the top of the scrubber, in a semi-sealed battery box.
If such an amount of salt water reaches those batteries to cause these effects, we're talking a MASSIVE flood which would drive you off the loop for obvious reasons anyway way before that time.
I also tried short-circuiting them the hard way. They seem to have an internal protection, because it just renders the battery inoperational.

These batteries are used for 10 years in Inspo's. Never heard about an explosion or toxic effects in operational use. But no doubt Alex will prove me wrong.....

Ciao,

Tino.

***jradomski*** · 5th September 2008, 16:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino de Rijk)

These batteries are used for 10 years in Inspo's. Never heard about an explosion or toxic effects in operational use. But no doubt Alex will prove me wrong.....

Ciao,

Tino.

There was a guy in grand cayman.. maybe 4 years ago that had a toxic loop because of the batteries.. It wasnt a massive flood but it was his fault.. from what I understand it was an original classic and he had the loop direction backwards.. salt water all over the batteries..

Norseman · 7th September 2008, 13:19

I heard about that one too. Wasn't he the same poor chap that was picked up in a water bucket by a chopper and dropped on a forest fire? A bad day all around for him.

Just kidding

***jradomski*** · 7th September 2008, 17:32

Quote: (Originally Posted by Norseman)

I heard about that one too. Wasn't he the same poor chap that was picked up in a water bucket by a chopper and dropped on a forest fire? A bad day all around for him.

Just kidding

I know it happened.. I talked to the guy sometime afterwards.. I'm pretty sure I remeber who it was but I'm not 100% sure..

5th September 2008, 11:38	#51 (permalink)
PCDiver Submerge Productions Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,003	Re: Hammerhead's Delrin vs Vision Electronics Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) The recommend cells (saft) are actually LiSOCl batteries and are pretty safe. The chemistry is not violent and the cells have built in protection mechanisms and the safts use a sealed stainless steel case... On an older HH I had a bad battery o-ring a the battery compartment flooded on its own.. It killed the battery but I just cleaned up the compartment with some vinegar (it was in salt water) and did the next dive.. Thanks. That's good to know. __________________ >>>>> www.submergeproductions.com dedicated to promoting technical diving >>>>> Check out our dive show video interviews and Wreck dive videos >>>>> Now also on iTunes and Zune
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5th September 2008, 11:56	#52 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,115	Re: Hammerhead's Delrin vs Vision Electronics Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino de Rijk) This is really one for Joe to answer, as it is his "trick".... :-) However, a while ago there was a long thread on the Inspo list about the effects of a Lithium battery submerged in salt water. Just out of curiousity, and to end the yes/no in that particular thread, I dropped a new CRP2 battery (also Lithium as you know) in a glass of very salt water. Result: some fizzing & bubbles, but certainly not an explosion or melting or so. Quite not-very-impressive all in all (with me silly sitting with a fire extinguisher ready next to it..). However, the pressure build-up of the gas could ruin the electronics or housing I guess, but as Joe stated, these are ruined anyway in this scenario due to intentional flooding, and electronics ARE replaceable, a life is not..... As the batteries are in the HH handset, it will not compromise the loop if it blows - which again is not very likely, given its quite structural strength. Opening it afterwards on the surface is another matter though..... ciao, Tino. Lithium Managanese Dioxide (LiMnO2) The CRP2 is in essence two 3V CR123A cells connected together in series to give a 6V battery. these cells are not hermetically sealed from msds Thermal degradation may produce hazardous fumes of manganese and lithium; hydrofluoric acid; oxides of carbon and sulfur and other toxic by-products. wheras the saft cells are in hermetically sealed metallic (SS) container.. Only the c and d size cells can vent gas.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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5th September 2008, 12:05	#53 (permalink)
divetheworld Dive porn pimp Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Classic Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,638	Re: Hammerhead's Delrin vs Vision Electronics Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) Lithium Managanese Dioxide (LiMnO2) The CRP2 is in essence two 3V CR123A cells connected together in series to give a 6V battery. these cells are not hermetically sealed from msds Thermal degradation may produce hazardous fumes of manganese and lithium; hydrofluoric acid; oxides of carbon and sulfur and other toxic by-products. wheras the saft cells are in hermetically sealed metallic (SS) container.. Only the c and d size cells can vent gas.. The SAFT LS14500 is also instrinsicly safe to EN50020 which is the standard for electrical apparatus for potentially explosive atmosphere's. __________________ Attitude and self praise is no reccomendation. Dont try to be a great man, just be a man and let history be the judge of you. *WWW.NARKEDAT90.CO.UK* *http://www.grpservices.com/pursuit/* Supporting Shearwater Research Products in Europe
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5th September 2008, 12:18	#54 (permalink)
Tino de Rijk Old, maybe one day wise Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 375	Re: Hammerhead's Delrin vs Vision Electronics Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) Lithium Managanese Dioxide (LiMnO2) The CRP2 is in essence two 3V CR123A cells connected together in series to give a 6V battery. these cells are not hermetically sealed from msds Thermal degradation may produce hazardous fumes of manganese and lithium; hydrofluoric acid; oxides of carbon and sulfur and other toxic by-products. wheras the saft cells are in hermetically sealed metallic (SS) container.. Only the c and d size cells can vent gas.. Then again, they sit in the top of the scrubber, in a semi-sealed battery box. If such an amount of salt water reaches those batteries to cause these effects, we're talking a MASSIVE flood which would drive you off the loop for obvious reasons anyway way before that time. I also tried short-circuiting them the hard way. They seem to have an internal protection, because it just renders the battery inoperational. These batteries are used for 10 years in Inspo's. Never heard about an explosion or toxic effects in operational use. But no doubt Alex will prove me wrong..... Ciao, Tino.
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5th September 2008, 16:45	#55 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,115	Re: Hammerhead's Delrin vs Vision Electronics Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino de Rijk) These batteries are used for 10 years in Inspo's. Never heard about an explosion or toxic effects in operational use. But no doubt Alex will prove me wrong..... Ciao, Tino. There was a guy in grand cayman.. maybe 4 years ago that had a toxic loop because of the batteries.. It wasnt a massive flood but it was his fault.. from what I understand it was an original classic and he had the loop direction backwards.. salt water all over the batteries.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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7th September 2008, 13:19	#56 (permalink)
Norseman New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Northeast US Posts: 14	Re: Hammerhead's Delrin vs Vision Electronics I heard about that one too. Wasn't he the same poor chap that was picked up in a water bucket by a chopper and dropped on a forest fire? A bad day all around for him. Just kidding __________________ "On the Plains of Hesitation lie the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the Dawn of Victory, lay down to rest, and in resting they died." Adlai E. Stevenson
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7th September 2008, 17:32	#57 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,115	Re: Hammerhead's Delrin vs Vision Electronics Quote: (Originally Posted by Norseman) I heard about that one too. Wasn't he the same poor chap that was picked up in a water bucket by a chopper and dropped on a forest fire? A bad day all around for him. Just kidding I know it happened.. I talked to the guy sometime afterwards.. I'm pretty sure I remeber who it was but I'm not 100% sure.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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