Lemon Yellow

**fireman** · 24th June 2008, 18:59

Do friends let friends dive YBODs

What is the difference between the various models and updates.

Would adding an independent ppo2 monitor solve most objections, and which one would be best/more easy.

PCDiver · 25th June 2008, 07:16

I'm gonna bite.

There are two major versions. The basic functionality:

Classic - two handsets with a controller in each, control of PPO2, no deco, no logging, no hud, shared batteries (2)

Vision - one handset, two computers in the head, control of PPO2, depth sensor, deco (GF), one hud, logging, downloads/updates of firmware, shared batteries (2)

I don't dive a classic anymore because I didn't like the two handsets and it didn't have integrated deco.

I have added a 4th cell and connected it to my VR3. Why? Extra safety. But I must admit that I don't use on all of my dives.

Would I recommend a Vision to my friends? Absolutely, if they were looking for an ECCR. If they were looking for an mCCR I wouldn't make a recommendation. I only recommend stuff that I have personal experience with.

hex · 25th June 2008, 15:06

Personally I think you should head towards the new vision models. In my opinion there aren't any reasons left for buying a classic model. I have been diving with both units and prefer the vision over the classic. By the way as already stated out the classic doesn't come with integrated deco and uses two handsets.... If you are unshure which unit would be best for you, you should try both out.

**fireman** · 26th June 2008, 23:08

Come on Joe, I know you have something useful to say...

KeythL · 6th July 2008, 22:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by hex)

...In my opinion there aren't any reasons left for buying a classic model. I have been diving with both units and prefer the vision over the classic. By the way as already stated out the classic doesn't come with integrated deco and uses two handsets.... If you are unshure which unit would be best for you, you should try both out.

While I wouldn't buy a New Classic from AP, I see plenty of reasons to buy a used Classic(and did). The Classic is flexable. I like the fact that it's doesn't have an integrated deco computer; lots of aftermarket upgrades available (4/5th cell holder to computer of your choice). The only "twek" that I'm not aware of being sold aftermarket is a way to get the battery out of the breathing loop(I'd like that). Replacing the entire head with a HH upgrade isn't a "twek".

If one only wanted new, there are better options for the kind of money AP wants for their products.

tflaris · 9th July 2008, 15:53

Currently own a Evolution and chose this model over the Classic for the electronics and Deco software.

Enjoy the unit and its smal size for travel. I have had good luck both boat diving and cave diving with the unit.

I use the VR3 as backup but with cell monitor just running on a lower setpoint the what is set on my Vision Electronics.

I have removed the original harness and using tranplate harness with a Mark Meadows low profile backplate and Armadillo sidemount and buttplate. Very streamline positioning in the caves and have achieved very nice trim. I use soft weights on top of the cylinders to offset the lead in my butt and the weight of the first stages.

Dislike the case (but it works well and provides physical protection) and exploring building my own. Tried a couple of differnet models and would prefer a round cylinder style in which the scrubber would slide into with either tiger mounts to attach cylinders. Posible some attachment points with a means to attach hoses to keep unit clean.

I have explored making the counter lungs removeable but have not received that point and typically use a garden hose to rinse unit out.

I like my unit....she is as cruel as mistress as they come.

Mdemon · 9th July 2008, 19:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by fireman)

Do friends let friends dive YBODs

<snip>

Would adding an independent ppo2 monitor solve most objections, and which one would be best/more easy.

You can have a go on my Classic anytime mate.

The best solution I have found, which makes you bullet-proof to all but total loop flood, is getting a Beanie adapter from Narked@90 and then a rEvoDream from Paul.

There are many of us here who have done this and it ticks a lot of boxes:

Very easy cell adding/removal
Totally independant PO2 monitoring
Individual cells shown - and there are two, not one
Clear HUD
Additional LCD display showing accurate PO2 for linearity tests
No need to drill into your lid to fit it so can revert to factory spec

So, take your Classic diving and you have constant PO2 monitoring. Good, eh? If the rEvoDream goes mad, the Classic is still there keeping you alive - using one of the two handsets and the audible beep. If the Classic goes mad, you see it in the HUD and manually make your way home - no need to bail if you're happy with manual. If you get a zero-vis moment, unclip the HUD and push it right up to your mask. Push your lovely X1 next to it and you can fly home on Instruments only.

If a cell fails mid-dive, who cares?
If two cells fail, who cares?

Hope this helps.

PS The same is possible on a Vision, however I don't think the cell holder fits. However, Paul offers PPorted rEvoDreams so you can plumb one direct into a CL.

PCDiver · 9th July 2008, 20:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon)

The same is possible on a Vision, however I don't think the cell holder fits.

I'm using the Beanie adapter on my Vision with a Decoweenie travelframe. Works like a charm. I haven' tried it in the standard yellow box.

***Beanie*** · 10th July 2008, 08:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon)

PS The same is possible on a Vision, however I don't think the cell holder fits. However, Paul offers PPorted rEvoDreams so you can plumb one direct into a CL.

yes the cell holders are almost the same

Classic: 5 cells and two ports
Vision: 4 celss and one port

Have fitted my shearwater HUD to both classic and vision.

***jradomski*** · 10th July 2008, 11:03

Quote: (Originally Posted by PCDiver)

I'm gonna bite.

There are two major versions. The basic functionality:

Classic - two handsets with a controller in each, control of PPO2, no deco, no logging, no hud, shared batteries (2)

Vision - one handset, two computers in the head, control of PPO2, depth sensor, deco (GF), one hud, logging, downloads/updates of firmware, shared batteries (2)

I don't dive a classic anymore because I didn't like the two handsets and it didn't have integrated deco.

I have added a 4th cell and connected it to my VR3. Why? Extra safety. But I must admit that I don't use on all of my dives.

Would I recommend a Vision to my friends? Absolutely, if they were looking for an ECCR. If they were looking for an mCCR I wouldn't make a recommendation. I only recommend stuff that I have personal experience with.

The classic doesnt really have shared batteries, they share a holder but the batteries are independent.. The vision does share batteries which is the main reason I wount dive one.. Teh second thing I dislike about a vision is a single handset.. I want true independent readouts..

I would use a vision for recreational and small deco dives, but if I'm doing bigger dives, I'd choose a classic or better yet a classic with a HH, which adds build in deco but totally seperates the batteries and handsets...

The metal HH did have problems for some, the older acrylic units hvae been great as is the delrin units.. WIth all the constant updates that have been necessary it seems as if every diver has been a beta tester for life support gear... It seems a large percentage have centered around the power system.. They should just scrap it and go independent.. I also can't believe a piece of life support gear went out the door (and took along time to fix) that lost 17mins per hour.. That should have been caught well before it ever reacheded any divers hands..

The classic is simple and solid.. There are a few things to look out for but it generally works as designed...

24th June 2008, 18:59	#1 (permalink)
fireman rEvo combat swimmer Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: chicago Posts: 526	Lemon Yellow Do friends let friends dive YBODs What is the difference between the various models and updates. Would adding an independent ppo2 monitor solve most objections, and which one would be best/more easy. __________________ Heres to you Capt. Bill Never Forget, and stay safe everyone.
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25th June 2008, 07:16	#2 (permalink)
PCDiver Submerge Productions Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 962	Re: Lemon Yellow I'm gonna bite. There are two major versions. The basic functionality: Classic - two handsets with a controller in each, control of PPO2, no deco, no logging, no hud, shared batteries (2) Vision - one handset, two computers in the head, control of PPO2, depth sensor, deco (GF), one hud, logging, downloads/updates of firmware, shared batteries (2) I don't dive a classic anymore because I didn't like the two handsets and it didn't have integrated deco. I have added a 4th cell and connected it to my VR3. Why? Extra safety. But I must admit that I don't use on all of my dives. Would I recommend a Vision to my friends? Absolutely, if they were looking for an ECCR. If they were looking for an mCCR I wouldn't make a recommendation. I only recommend stuff that I have personal experience with. __________________ >>>>> www.submergeproductions.com dedicated to promoting technical diving >>>>> Check out our dive show video interviews and Wreck dive videos >>>>> Now also on iTunes and Zune
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25th June 2008, 15:06	#3 (permalink)
hex New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: germany Posts: 12	Re: Lemon Yellow Personally I think you should head towards the new vision models. In my opinion there aren't any reasons left for buying a classic model. I have been diving with both units and prefer the vision over the classic. By the way as already stated out the classic doesn't come with integrated deco and uses two handsets.... If you are unshure which unit would be best for you, you should try both out. __________________
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26th June 2008, 23:08	#4 (permalink)
fireman rEvo combat swimmer Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: chicago Posts: 526	Re: Lemon Yellow Come on Joe, I know you have something useful to say... __________________ Heres to you Capt. Bill Never Forget, and stay safe everyone.
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6th July 2008, 22:18	#5 (permalink)
KeythL New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: USA Posts: 14	Re: Lemon Yellow Quote: (Originally Posted by hex) ...In my opinion there aren't any reasons left for buying a classic model. I have been diving with both units and prefer the vision over the classic. By the way as already stated out the classic doesn't come with integrated deco and uses two handsets.... If you are unshure which unit would be best for you, you should try both out. While I wouldn't buy a New Classic from AP, I see plenty of reasons to buy a used Classic(and did). The Classic is flexable. I like the fact that it's doesn't have an integrated deco computer; lots of aftermarket upgrades available (4/5th cell holder to computer of your choice). The only "twek" that I'm not aware of being sold aftermarket is a way to get the battery out of the breathing loop(I'd like that). Replacing the entire head with a HH upgrade isn't a "twek". If one only wanted new, there are better options for the kind of money AP wants for their products.
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9th July 2008, 15:53	#6 (permalink)
tflaris God save the Queen Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Neptune Beach, Florida Posts: 247	Re: Lemon Yellow Currently own a Evolution and chose this model over the Classic for the electronics and Deco software. Enjoy the unit and its smal size for travel. I have had good luck both boat diving and cave diving with the unit. I use the VR3 as backup but with cell monitor just running on a lower setpoint the what is set on my Vision Electronics. I have removed the original harness and using tranplate harness with a Mark Meadows low profile backplate and Armadillo sidemount and buttplate. Very streamline positioning in the caves and have achieved very nice trim. I use soft weights on top of the cylinders to offset the lead in my butt and the weight of the first stages. Dislike the case (but it works well and provides physical protection) and exploring building my own. Tried a couple of differnet models and would prefer a round cylinder style in which the scrubber would slide into with either tiger mounts to attach cylinders. Posible some attachment points with a means to attach hoses to keep unit clean. I have explored making the counter lungs removeable but have not received that point and typically use a garden hose to rinse unit out. I like my unit....she is as cruel as mistress as they come. __________________ "Except for this one, I have come to the conclusion that all generalizations are false" -Jim Hayes
(Offline)

9th July 2008, 19:45	#7 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,931	Re: Lemon Yellow Quote: (Originally Posted by fireman) Do friends let friends dive YBODs <snip> Would adding an independent ppo2 monitor solve most objections, and which one would be best/more easy. You can have a go on my Classic anytime mate. The best solution I have found, which makes you bullet-proof to all but total loop flood, is getting a Beanie adapter from Narked@90 and then a rEvoDream from Paul. There are many of us here who have done this and it ticks a lot of boxes: Very easy cell adding/removal Totally independant PO2 monitoring Individual cells shown - and there are two, not one Clear HUD Additional LCD display showing accurate PO2 for linearity tests No need to drill into your lid to fit it so can revert to factory spec So, take your Classic diving and you have constant PO2 monitoring. Good, eh? If the rEvoDream goes mad, the Classic is still there keeping you alive - using one of the two handsets and the audible beep. If the Classic goes mad, you see it in the HUD and manually make your way home - no need to bail if you're happy with manual. If you get a zero-vis moment, unclip the HUD and push it right up to your mask. Push your lovely X1 next to it and you can fly home on Instruments only. If a cell fails mid-dive, who cares? If two cells fail, who cares? Hope this helps. PS The same is possible on a Vision, however I don't think the cell holder fits. However, Paul offers PPorted rEvoDreams so you can plumb one direct into a CL. __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "small minds talk about people, Average Minds Talk About Events, GREAT MINDS TALK ABOUT IDEAS!" The WRONG Attitude will get you killed. "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?" Last edited by Mdemon : 9th July 2008 at 19:51.
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9th July 2008, 20:25	#8 (permalink)
PCDiver Submerge Productions Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 962	Re: Lemon Yellow Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon) The same is possible on a Vision, however I don't think the cell holder fits. I'm using the Beanie adapter on my Vision with a Decoweenie travelframe. Works like a charm. I haven' tried it in the standard yellow box. __________________ >>>>> www.submergeproductions.com dedicated to promoting technical diving >>>>> Check out our dive show video interviews and Wreck dive videos >>>>> Now also on iTunes and Zune Last edited by PCDiver : 10th July 2008 at 09:32.
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10th July 2008, 08:51	#9 (permalink)
*Beanie* give a man an inch....... Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In da house! yeah baby! Posts: 3,247	Re: Lemon Yellow Quote: (Originally Posted by Mdemon) PS The same is possible on a Vision, however I don't think the cell holder fits. However, Paul offers PPorted rEvoDreams so you can plumb one direct into a CL. yes the cell holders are almost the same Classic: 5 cells and two ports Vision: 4 celss and one port Have fitted my shearwater HUD to both classic and vision. __________________ Beanie Gallery Admin & Library Assistant. www.outlawdivers.org.uk www.beandiving.co.uk www.beanengineering.co.uk 0871 242 7808
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10th July 2008, 11:03	#10 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,992	Re: Lemon Yellow Quote: (Originally Posted by PCDiver) I'm gonna bite. There are two major versions. The basic functionality: Classic - two handsets with a controller in each, control of PPO2, no deco, no logging, no hud, shared batteries (2) Vision - one handset, two computers in the head, control of PPO2, depth sensor, deco (GF), one hud, logging, downloads/updates of firmware, shared batteries (2) I don't dive a classic anymore because I didn't like the two handsets and it didn't have integrated deco. I have added a 4th cell and connected it to my VR3. Why? Extra safety. But I must admit that I don't use on all of my dives. Would I recommend a Vision to my friends? Absolutely, if they were looking for an ECCR. If they were looking for an mCCR I wouldn't make a recommendation. I only recommend stuff that I have personal experience with. The classic doesnt really have shared batteries, they share a holder but the batteries are independent.. The vision does share batteries which is the main reason I wount dive one.. Teh second thing I dislike about a vision is a single handset.. I want true independent readouts.. I would use a vision for recreational and small deco dives, but if I'm doing bigger dives, I'd choose a classic or better yet a classic with a HH, which adds build in deco but totally seperates the batteries and handsets... The metal HH did have problems for some, the older acrylic units hvae been great as is the delrin units.. WIth all the constant updates that have been necessary it seems as if every diver has been a beta tester for life support gear... It seems a large percentage have centered around the power system.. They should just scrap it and go independent.. I also can't believe a piece of life support gear went out the door (and took along time to fix) that lost 17mins per hour.. That should have been caught well before it ever reacheded any divers hands.. The classic is simple and solid.. There are a few things to look out for but it generally works as designed... __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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