Who has used rechargeable batteries

Barjumpa · 10th June 2008, 08:03

Who has used rechargeable batteries in their Inspirations.

I have an Inspiration Vision and seem to be churning through batteries regularly and the cost for batteries here in Australia is getting annoying. I did a search this afternoon and saw that there were available an identical version but rechargeable..! and the cost of each battery is only AU$9 and a charger and battery is Au$21

So the big questions I have when put into one place are these..

1. Are these rechargeable batteries up to scratch?
2. Do they work as well as the Panasonic or Energizer batteries which are costing AU$25 each.... and lasting about 6 dives..?

3. Is there any operational issue (other than bullsh*t scaremongering)that I should be aware of using these rechargeables?

Cheers

Simon A · 10th June 2008, 08:11

the discharge curve on the rechargeables means they go from good voltage to nothing without warning so the battery monitoring would be useless.
You would use them at your own risk. I would sugest that if you did try them you should charge them every time you change the scrubber and should replace them every year.

JD White · 10th June 2008, 09:00

Hi Barjumpa,
I was using Duracells from Olympic batteries at $15ea and was going through a few. Dive Rite express has Fujitsu's at US$8.95 ea, or 10 for $65. With our exchange rate, this seems to be the best option.
The software update I installed seems to have reduced the consumption a bit.
Hope this helps.
JD

matt crane · 10th June 2008, 09:41

TBH at the rate that rechargeable batteries loose a charge there is no way in hell I would even consider putting them in my vision.

AD_ward9 · 10th June 2008, 10:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by Simon A)

the discharge curve on the rechargeables means they go from good voltage to nothing without warning so the battery monitoring would be useless.

This is simply incorrect. How do you think the battery life monitor on your mobile phone works? Mine (a Nokia), works extremely well.

The details of how to predict battery life on a suitable rechargeable cell for a rebreather ("Safe" Saphion Lithium Phosphate Gel cells) is published on http://www.deeplife.co.uk/or_files/D...lls_080415.pdf

It gives the formulae etc showing how the life remaining can be predicted to an accuracy of 10% with a full charge, increasing during the discharge cycle to an accuracy of 2% for the bottom end of the discharge cycle.

Primary cells (i.e. not rechargeable) are entirely unsuitable for driving a rebreather, for many different reasons. They are not predictable because they come from many different sources, and the manufacturer does not check each batch, which they can do with secondary (rechargeable) cells. With rechargeable cells, there are no contact problems to worry about, because they can be soldered in.

Alex

dave t · 10th June 2008, 13:55

Thats true Alex but the point is the vision battery meters are not "mated" to rechargable cells so they may not show the correct prediction.

Dave

Simon A · 10th June 2008, 21:56

Alex,
I know that it's not rocket science to predict battery life on a rechargeable. However the OP was asking specificaly about using them in his Inspiration Vision. For that case the battery monitoring is not going to work reliably with rechargeables.
I would much rather use hard soldered rechargeables on my inspo classic, but I haven't the skills to build my own charging/battery capacity left electronics.
Simon A

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9)

This is simply incorrect. How do you think the battery life monitor on your mobile phone works? Mine (a Nokia), works extremely well.

The details of how to predict battery life on a suitable rechargeable cell for a rebreather ("Safe" Saphion Lithium Phosphate Gel cells) is published on http://www.deeplife.co.uk/or_files/D...lls_080415.pdf

It gives the formulae etc showing how the life remaining can be predicted to an accuracy of 10% with a full charge, increasing during the discharge cycle to an accuracy of 2% for the bottom end of the discharge cycle.

Primary cells (i.e. not rechargeable) are entirely unsuitable for driving a rebreather, for many different reasons. They are not predictable because they come from many different sources, and the manufacturer does not check each batch, which they can do with secondary (rechargeable) cells. With rechargeable cells, there are no contact problems to worry about, because they can be soldered in.

Alex

AD_ward9 · 10th June 2008, 22:06

Quote: (Originally Posted by Simon A)

Alex,
I know that it's not rocket science to predict battery life on a rechargeable. However the OP was asking specificaly about using them in his Inspiration Vision. For that case the battery monitoring is not going to work reliably with rechargeables.
I would much rather use hard soldered rechargeables on my inspo classic, but I haven't the skills to build my own charging/battery capacity left electronics.
Simon A

Thanks for bringing me back to context. I misread it slightly.

As you know, changing anything electronic on a rebreather involves a lot more than may meet the eye. For example, brownout circuits need to trip at the right voltage etc. Replacing a power supply generally obliges one to go the whole hog.

I replaced the batteries on my Inspo with rechargeables about 7 years ago, and quickly went from there to replacing the controller. Too many things are inter-related.

Cheers,

Alex

Humuhumu · 11th June 2008, 12:12

Hi,

APD says very clearly what is suitable and what is not: stay alive and follow the rules, that's my philosophy. It makes no sense to spend such a huge amount of money to have a very nice unit and try to save money on batteries. I would try to find a cheaper provider for certified batteries or maybe try to buy a bigger quantity and resale what I don't need on Ebay (with a small profit for me, of course :-).

My instructor (1400 hours, Trimix, Cave, etc) told me the same, rechargeable batteries are breaking down too fast and are dangerous.

Cheers

Humuhumu

UKSteve · 11th June 2008, 12:30

If you are worried about battery consumption get the new solenoid!

Steve

10th June 2008, 08:03	#1 (permalink)
Barjumpa New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 10	Who has used rechargeable batteries Who has used rechargeable batteries in their Inspirations. I have an Inspiration Vision and seem to be churning through batteries regularly and the cost for batteries here in Australia is getting annoying. I did a search this afternoon and saw that there were available an identical version but rechargeable..! and the cost of each battery is only AU$9 and a charger and battery is Au$21 So the big questions I have when put into one place are these.. 1. Are these rechargeable batteries up to scratch? 2. Do they work as well as the Panasonic or Energizer batteries which are costing AU$25 each.... and lasting about 6 dives..? 3. Is there any operational issue (other than bullsht scaremongering)that I should be aware of using these rechargeables? Cheers __________________ Leave No Bubbles...!And if it is down there I'm bringing it back up...!*
(Offline)

10th June 2008, 08:11	#2 (permalink)
Simon A Escapee from DIY Rebreather's Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Reading, UK Posts: 303	Re: Who has used rechargeable batteries the discharge curve on the rechargeables means they go from good voltage to nothing without warning so the battery monitoring would be useless. You would use them at your own risk. I would sugest that if you did try them you should charge them every time you change the scrubber and should replace them every year.
(Offline)

10th June 2008, 09:00	#3 (permalink)
JD White New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Adelaide Posts: 44	Re: Who has used rechargeable batteries Hi Barjumpa, I was using Duracells from Olympic batteries at $15ea and was going through a few. Dive Rite express has Fujitsu's at US$8.95 ea, or 10 for $65. With our exchange rate, this seems to be the best option. The software update I installed seems to have reduced the consumption a bit. Hope this helps. JD __________________ Drilling holes is just boring.....
(Offline)

10th June 2008, 09:41	#4 (permalink)
matt crane New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Cornwall Posts: 79	Re: Who has used rechargeable batteries TBH at the rate that rechargeable batteries loose a charge there is no way in hell I would even consider putting them in my vision.
(Offline)

10th June 2008, 10:54	#5 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,732	Re: Who has used rechargeable batteries Quote: (Originally Posted by Simon A) the discharge curve on the rechargeables means they go from good voltage to nothing without warning so the battery monitoring would be useless. This is simply incorrect. How do you think the battery life monitor on your mobile phone works? Mine (a Nokia), works extremely well. The details of how to predict battery life on a suitable rechargeable cell for a rebreather ("Safe" Saphion Lithium Phosphate Gel cells) is published on http://www.deeplife.co.uk/or_files/D...lls_080415.pdf It gives the formulae etc showing how the life remaining can be predicted to an accuracy of 10% with a full charge, increasing during the discharge cycle to an accuracy of 2% for the bottom end of the discharge cycle. Primary cells (i.e. not rechargeable) are entirely unsuitable for driving a rebreather, for many different reasons. They are not predictable because they come from many different sources, and the manufacturer does not check each batch, which they can do with secondary (rechargeable) cells. With rechargeable cells, there are no contact problems to worry about, because they can be soldered in. Alex
(Offline)

10th June 2008, 13:55	#6 (permalink)
dave t Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts: 654	Re: Who has used rechargeable batteries Thats true Alex but the point is the vision battery meters are not "mated" to rechargable cells so they may not show the correct prediction. Dave
(Offline)

10th June 2008, 21:56	#7 (permalink)
Simon A Escapee from DIY Rebreather's Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Reading, UK Posts: 303	Re: Who has used rechargeable batteries Alex, I know that it's not rocket science to predict battery life on a rechargeable. However the OP was asking specificaly about using them in his Inspiration Vision. For that case the battery monitoring is not going to work reliably with rechargeables. I would much rather use hard soldered rechargeables on my inspo classic, but I haven't the skills to build my own charging/battery capacity left electronics. Simon A Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9) This is simply incorrect. How do you think the battery life monitor on your mobile phone works? Mine (a Nokia), works extremely well. The details of how to predict battery life on a suitable rechargeable cell for a rebreather ("Safe" Saphion Lithium Phosphate Gel cells) is published on http://www.deeplife.co.uk/or_files/D...lls_080415.pdf It gives the formulae etc showing how the life remaining can be predicted to an accuracy of 10% with a full charge, increasing during the discharge cycle to an accuracy of 2% for the bottom end of the discharge cycle. Primary cells (i.e. not rechargeable) are entirely unsuitable for driving a rebreather, for many different reasons. They are not predictable because they come from many different sources, and the manufacturer does not check each batch, which they can do with secondary (rechargeable) cells. With rechargeable cells, there are no contact problems to worry about, because they can be soldered in. Alex
(Offline)

10th June 2008, 22:06	#8 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,732	Re: Who has used rechargeable batteries Quote: (Originally Posted by Simon A) Alex, I know that it's not rocket science to predict battery life on a rechargeable. However the OP was asking specificaly about using them in his Inspiration Vision. For that case the battery monitoring is not going to work reliably with rechargeables. I would much rather use hard soldered rechargeables on my inspo classic, but I haven't the skills to build my own charging/battery capacity left electronics. Simon A Thanks for bringing me back to context. I misread it slightly. As you know, changing anything electronic on a rebreather involves a lot more than may meet the eye. For example, brownout circuits need to trip at the right voltage etc. Replacing a power supply generally obliges one to go the whole hog. I replaced the batteries on my Inspo with rechargeables about 7 years ago, and quickly went from there to replacing the controller. Too many things are inter-related. Cheers, Alex
(Offline)

11th June 2008, 12:12	#9 (permalink)
Humuhumu New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Blue Planet Posts: 87	Re: Who has used rechargeable batteries Hi, APD says very clearly what is suitable and what is not: stay alive and follow the rules, that's my philosophy. It makes no sense to spend such a huge amount of money to have a very nice unit and try to save money on batteries. I would try to find a cheaper provider for certified batteries or maybe try to buy a bigger quantity and resale what I don't need on Ebay (with a small profit for me, of course :-). My instructor (1400 hours, Trimix, Cave, etc) told me the same, rechargeable batteries are breaking down too fast and are dangerous. Cheers Humuhumu __________________ Humuhumu Nukunuku Apua'a
(Offline)

11th June 2008, 12:30	#10 (permalink)
UKSteve Still a novice... Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Weymouth, UK Posts: 577	Re: Who has used rechargeable batteries If you are worried about battery consumption get the new solenoid! Steve
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