How much Deco

Gobfish1 · 14th February 2008, 00:37

tasa i see you're in Warrington, give me a call whan you have you're unit
on order ,, i will meet up with you and give you the low down on the ccr black art bollox .. should take all of 20 mins ,,

if you read all this lot you will be giving ccr up be4 you even get one ..

you will get lots of bottom time , now worrys m8 ,,

Ambient Pressure Diving Ltd.

run v plan on air set point 1.4 for bottom part of dive , then at the 6m stop, set point is 1.6 just for fun not to dive on ,, (conservatism+3 whats that,) play with that later on m8,,, ZERO FOR NOW

pm me if you need to ,,

diverreb · 14th February 2008, 05:40

Reality is for dives between 25m and 50m the deco times are very similar to OC, and in some cases a bit longer.

You can run V-Planner at any conservancy you want to make times shorter, but that doesn't mean you won't get bent.

You can also run them at 1.4 set points, but no agency is recommending people dive at a 1.4.

Reality is most dives are done at a 1.2 or lower in that depth range.

A dive to 40.2m in OC is done at say 28%.... Which would be a 1.4 set point equivalent.

The same dive at a 1.2 is equivalent to 24%.

In your training you'll learn why you shouldn't dive at 1.4 with a CCR.

While the Constant Partial Pressure will add some credits to you ascent & descent, the majority of time on bottom at the above variance more than balances that out.

Stay on the conservative side and lower your risk of a potential negative outcome considerably.

Richie

Gobfish1 · 14th February 2008, 05:58

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb)

Reality is for dives between 25m and 50m the deco times are very similar to OC, and in some cases a bit longer.

You can run V-Planner at any conservancy you want to make times shorter, but that doesn't mean you won't get bent.

You can also run them at 1.4 set points, but no agency is recommending people dive at a 1.4.

Reality is most dives are done at a 1.2 or lower in that depth range.

A dive to 40.2m in OC is done at say 28%.... Which would be a 1.4 set point equivalent.

The same dive at a 1.2 is equivalent to 24%.

In your training you'll learn why you shouldn't dive at 1.4 with a CCR.

While the Constant Partial Pressure will add some credits to you ascent & descent, the majority of time on bottom at the above variance more than balances that out.

Stay on the conservative side and lower your risk of a potential negative outcome considerably.

Richie

think you will find you're only talking for divers over the pond ..
all the divers i know run with 1,45 max bottom OC and 1,6 deco

CCR run 1.3 or 1.4 and 1.5 1.6 deco on dives in less that 50m

all this crap about low ppo2 is just for the unwashed ,,
i have been diving nitrox and mix gas for 15 years ,,

never had a problem with my ppo2 s or my deco ..
IANTD used to teach the facts , but have had to throw in some bull shit to sell it's nitrox and mix bollox to the mass ,, just cos you were told by some guy it's so ,
dont make it fact ,,,

as for deco tables i have about 8 of them on my computer
plus a shit load.s of books with tables in

take your pick they all give you a dif frigging number for a said dive ,,,

i said play with the numbers for fun not to dive on in the other post ,,
and i said you will get longer bottom time , like to see you do 60min at 50m on a set of 12L twins
i never said a word about how much deco would be needed

the art of diving mixgas seems to get's more diluted as the years pass bye ;;;
knobs teaching knobs teaching knobs = BS Send three and four pence, we're going to a dance.

Gilles · 14th February 2008, 06:20

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb)

Reality is for dives between 25m and 50m the deco times are very similar to OC, and in some cases a bit longer...
Richie

The above applies only to the first dive of the day. If your diving with other OC'rs, you'll be doing multi-dive days, and it's on those 2nd and 3rd descents where there will be more difference in NST.

With Rebreather (and assuming you've mastered your bouyancy sufficiently), there's less issue with deco time. You don't have OC gas supply to worry about (with exception to adequate bailout).

NST is only a single advantage on Rebreather. There is so much more...but then this post would get too long. Suffice it to say, it is flying rather than diving

.

**nigelh** · 14th February 2008, 09:06

One of the nice things about an Rebreather is you don't end up caring about the deco provided you have enough bailout. It's not like you have to go get those rich mix tanks pumped for your next dive. We can dive more conservatively than OC divers and stay on pure O2 on the surface and it's still trivial usage.

Depth-junkie · 14th February 2008, 09:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gobfish1)

think you will find you're only talking for divers over the pond ..
all the divers i know run with 1,45 max bottom OC and 1,6 deco

CCR run 1.3 or 1.4 and 1.5 1.6 deco on dives in less that 50m

all this crap about low ppo2 is just for the unwashed ,,
i have been diving nitrox and mix gas for 15 years ,,

never had a problem with my ppo2 s or my deco ..
IANTD used to teach the facts , but have had to throw in some bull shit to sell it's nitrox and mix bollox to the mass ,, just cos you were told by some guy it's so ,
dont make it fact ,,,

as for deco tables i have about 8 of them on my computer
plus a shit load.s of books with tables in

take your pick they all give you a dif frigging number for a said dive ,,,

i said play with the numbers for fun not to dive on in the other post ,,
and i said you will get longer bottom time , like to see you do 60min at 50m on a set of 12L twins
i never said a word about how much deco would be needed

the art of diving mixgas seems to get's more diluted as the years pass bye ;;;
knobs teaching knobs teaching knobs = BS Send three and four pence, we're going to a dance.

best post i have seen for ages, spot on M8

As for the last 2 lines of the above post, could not have said it better myself

ATB
Gareth

Ben Field · 14th February 2008, 12:14

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gobfish1)

CCR run 1.3 or 1.4 and 1.5 1.6 deco on dives in less that 50m

all this crap about low ppo2 is just for the unwashed ,,
i have been diving nitrox and mix gas for 15 years ,,

never had a problem with my ppo2 s or my deco ..

Is there really any need to brag about your PPO2- this is not a Sport its a Hobby at most, there is no need to be competitive and it only leads to people getting hurt IMO.

Surely running 1.4 on the bottom doesn't give much if any advantage for deco, burns up your lungs and is much closer to 1.6/1.8 (wherever it is you start to Samb) more risk of overshoot etc.

Too much PPO2 for too long makes me abit deaf, can't help but think that deliberately overdoing it is just asking for a hit of some kind?

Scubascooby · 14th February 2008, 13:04

This is what some people don't get. You can dive at higher ppO2's but the likelihood of having a convulsion increases and the length of time before it happens decreases and both are exponential functions of the ppO2. It's not exact but based on empirical data and it varies from person to person and day to day, maybe even minute to minute.

It's like deco. You can ignore No Stop times if you wish and you might not get bent today but your likelihood of getting bent will be greatly increased. No one would suggest ignoring No Stop times so why ignore ppO2 limits ?

Gobfish1 · 14th February 2008, 19:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field)

Is there really any need to brag about your PPO2- this is not a Sport its a Hobby at most, there is no need to be competitive and it only leads to people getting hurt IMO.

Surely running 1.4 on the bottom doesn't give much if any advantage for deco, burns up your lungs and is much closer to 1.6/1.8 (wherever it is you start to Samb) more risk of overshoot etc.

Too much PPO2 for too long makes me abit deaf, can't help but think that deliberately overdoing it is just asking for a hit of some kind?

No braging m8 ,
just saying what i see with the divers i dive with .. IANTD and all the other outfits
only tell the great unwashed to dive with a low set point to keep them away from 02 at 6m ,, and i will tell you why ( they cant hold a stop that,s it ,,)
all well and good, but we end up with divers that are worried shitless about having o2 with a ppo2 of 1.6 in the ccr , maybe that,s why you see lots of ccr divers passing out in 6m or less ,, LOW ppo2 kills as well , so best we all dive some place in the middle , but you need infomation to know were the middle is

even ap say 1,3 for air dives on a ybod ,,

OC and ppo2

as for diving OC the numbers started at 1.5ppo2, less .5 for diving in cold water less, .5 for a hard work .. and 1.6 for deco , we all know it is the best ppo2 to be on ,, for deco , keep you're eye on the cns clock , i can do that on the fly as i dive, its not hard ,,, well it could be hard if you only got a book to look them up in ,,, cos you were never told how to work out your cns per min .. yes we have computers to work out are CNS, but they cant look a head as you dive ,

i see 100s of divers swimming round in 30 40m with a ali 80 of 50% , same dive could be done with a half full 3L cylinder of o2,
its not the divers fault that,s how he was told to do it ,,

ppo2 of 50% at 6m= useless, for deco ,,, but hay all the word love's it ,,,
its v safe if you cant hold a stop ,,, good for the mass ,
good for selling nitrox card, but its crap for deco,, you need twice as much deco gas .. all needs humping around = more shite hanging of a diver, more drag, more work, more gas used ,, and that,s be4 we even get to do the deco,,

just my 2p
i will stick with my ppo2 numbers, thank you ,,
ccr 1.3 and 1.6 for deco .
OC 1.4 / 1.45 max ppo2 on bottom deco 1.6ppo2
with well over a thousand dives on said numbers , i dont see why a should change now

dive safe,

tibby · 14th February 2008, 23:14

Taza, here's an example:
Megalodon Apecs
Set point: 1.3 but ran VR3 at 1.2
Max Depth: 145ft
Water temp: 48degF
Time at max depth 17min
Time at 90ft 45min
Time at 70ft 55min
Time on deco @20ft 5min (padded over 2min on VR3)
Time on deco @10ft 8min (padded over 6min on VR3)
Total run time 130min.
Conclusion: It's hard to do a dive on OC in cold water to 40m for 2hrs with 12min of deco and stay warm enough to enjoy it. Yes, if you can afford it, it's worth it

Tibby

14th February 2008, 00:37	#11 (permalink)
Gobfish1 RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 410	Re: How much Deco tasa i see you're in Warrington, give me a call whan you have you're unit on order ,, i will meet up with you and give you the low down on the ccr black art bollox .. should take all of 20 mins ,, if you read all this lot you will be giving ccr up be4 you even get one .. you will get lots of bottom time , now worrys m8 ,, Ambient Pressure Diving Ltd. run v plan on air set point 1.4 for bottom part of dive , then at the 6m stop, set point is 1.6 just for fun not to dive on ,, (conservatism+3 whats that,) play with that later on m8,,, ZERO FOR NOW pm me if you need to ,, __________________ Steve G Apparently not the only gay diver in the village http://drinkingliberally.org/blogs/o...nzee-glock.gif http://www.scubatunes.com/audio/vol01/mp3/HiTech.mp3 Last edited by Gobfish1 : 14th February 2008 at 02:34.
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14th February 2008, 05:40	#12 (permalink)
diverreb DE/MD/NJ Wreck Diver Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Dover, DE Posts: 672	Re: How much Deco Reality is for dives between 25m and 50m the deco times are very similar to OC, and in some cases a bit longer. You can run V-Planner at any conservancy you want to make times shorter, but that doesn't mean you won't get bent. You can also run them at 1.4 set points, but no agency is recommending people dive at a 1.4. Reality is most dives are done at a 1.2 or lower in that depth range. A dive to 40.2m in OC is done at say 28%.... Which would be a 1.4 set point equivalent. The same dive at a 1.2 is equivalent to 24%. In your training you'll learn why you shouldn't dive at 1.4 with a CCR. While the Constant Partial Pressure will add some credits to you ascent & descent, the majority of time on bottom at the above variance more than balances that out. Stay on the conservative side and lower your risk of a potential negative outcome considerably. Richie
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14th February 2008, 05:58	#13 (permalink)
Gobfish1 RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 410	Re: How much Deco Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb) Reality is for dives between 25m and 50m the deco times are very similar to OC, and in some cases a bit longer. You can run V-Planner at any conservancy you want to make times shorter, but that doesn't mean you won't get bent. You can also run them at 1.4 set points, but no agency is recommending people dive at a 1.4. Reality is most dives are done at a 1.2 or lower in that depth range. A dive to 40.2m in OC is done at say 28%.... Which would be a 1.4 set point equivalent. The same dive at a 1.2 is equivalent to 24%. In your training you'll learn why you shouldn't dive at 1.4 with a CCR. While the Constant Partial Pressure will add some credits to you ascent & descent, the majority of time on bottom at the above variance more than balances that out. Stay on the conservative side and lower your risk of a potential negative outcome considerably. Richie think you will find you're only talking for divers over the pond .. all the divers i know run with 1,45 max bottom OC and 1,6 deco CCR run 1.3 or 1.4 and 1.5 1.6 deco on dives in less that 50m all this crap about low ppo2 is just for the unwashed ,, i have been diving nitrox and mix gas for 15 years ,, never had a problem with my ppo2 s or my deco .. IANTD used to teach the facts , but have had to throw in some bull shit to sell it's nitrox and mix bollox to the mass ,, just cos you were told by some guy it's so , dont make it fact ,,, as for deco tables i have about 8 of them on my computer plus a shit load.s of books with tables in take your pick they all give you a dif frigging number for a said dive ,,, i said play with the numbers for fun not to dive on in the other post ,, and i said you will get longer bottom time , like to see you do 60min at 50m on a set of 12L twins i never said a word about how much deco would be needed the art of diving mixgas seems to get's more diluted as the years pass bye ;;; knobs teaching knobs teaching knobs = BS Send three and four pence, we're going to a dance. __________________ Steve G Apparently not the only gay diver in the village http://drinkingliberally.org/blogs/o...nzee-glock.gif http://www.scubatunes.com/audio/vol01/mp3/HiTech.mp3 Last edited by Gobfish1 : 14th February 2008 at 07:51.
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14th February 2008, 06:20	#14 (permalink)
Gilles Worship the feminine Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Den Haag (Netherlands) Posts: 762	Re: How much Deco Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb) Reality is for dives between 25m and 50m the deco times are very similar to OC, and in some cases a bit longer... Richie The above applies only to the first dive of the day. If your diving with other OC'rs, you'll be doing multi-dive days, and it's on those 2nd and 3rd descents where there will be more difference in NST. With Rebreather (and assuming you've mastered your bouyancy sufficiently), there's less issue with deco time. You don't have OC gas supply to worry about (with exception to adequate bailout). NST is only a single advantage on Rebreather. There is so much more...but then this post would get too long. Suffice it to say, it is flying rather than diving. __________________ Gilles http://www.dirrebreather.com
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14th February 2008, 09:06	#15 (permalink)
nigelh New member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brighton, Sussex, UK Posts: 883	Re: How much Deco One of the nice things about an Rebreather is you don't end up caring about the deco provided you have enough bailout. It's not like you have to go get those rich mix tanks pumped for your next dive. We can dive more conservatively than OC divers and stay on pure O2 on the surface and it's still trivial usage. __________________ nigelh
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14th February 2008, 09:38	#16 (permalink)
Depth-junkie 10/52 Psycho Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Wrexham Posts: 298	Re: How much Deco Quote: (Originally Posted by Gobfish1) think you will find you're only talking for divers over the pond .. all the divers i know run with 1,45 max bottom OC and 1,6 deco CCR run 1.3 or 1.4 and 1.5 1.6 deco on dives in less that 50m all this crap about low ppo2 is just for the unwashed ,, i have been diving nitrox and mix gas for 15 years ,, never had a problem with my ppo2 s or my deco .. IANTD used to teach the facts , but have had to throw in some bull shit to sell it's nitrox and mix bollox to the mass ,, just cos you were told by some guy it's so , dont make it fact ,,, as for deco tables i have about 8 of them on my computer plus a shit load.s of books with tables in take your pick they all give you a dif frigging number for a said dive ,,, i said play with the numbers for fun not to dive on in the other post ,, and i said you will get longer bottom time , like to see you do 60min at 50m on a set of 12L twins i never said a word about how much deco would be needed the art of diving mixgas seems to get's more diluted as the years pass bye ;;; knobs teaching knobs teaching knobs = BS Send three and four pence, we're going to a dance. best post i have seen for ages, spot on M8 As for the last 2 lines of the above post, could not have said it better myself ATB Gareth __________________ Alpine low rider of the P.D.D.T
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14th February 2008, 12:14	#17 (permalink)
Ben Field CK+Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 1,780	Re: How much Deco Quote: (Originally Posted by Gobfish1) CCR run 1.3 or 1.4 and 1.5 1.6 deco on dives in less that 50m all this crap about low ppo2 is just for the unwashed ,, i have been diving nitrox and mix gas for 15 years ,, never had a problem with my ppo2 s or my deco .. Is there really any need to brag about your PPO2- this is not a Sport its a Hobby at most, there is no need to be competitive and it only leads to people getting hurt IMO. Surely running 1.4 on the bottom doesn't give much if any advantage for deco, burns up your lungs and is much closer to 1.6/1.8 (wherever it is you start to Samb) more risk of overshoot etc. Too much PPO2 for too long makes me abit deaf, can't help but think that deliberately overdoing it is just asking for a hit of some kind? __________________ Know your PPO2, Pre-breath, Use checklists, Validate cells at 6mtrs, Use pure O2 at or near surface, Use a BOV, Don't dive Solo, Change Slime and Cells as recommended by Manufacturer and RTFM! www.hugsac.org.uk
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14th February 2008, 13:04	#18 (permalink)
Scubascooby Better Off Out of the EU Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Great Britain Posts: 419	Re: How much Deco This is what some people don't get. You can dive at higher ppO2's but the likelihood of having a convulsion increases and the length of time before it happens decreases and both are exponential functions of the ppO2. It's not exact but based on empirical data and it varies from person to person and day to day, maybe even minute to minute. It's like deco. You can ignore No Stop times if you wish and you might not get bent today but your likelihood of getting bent will be greatly increased. No one would suggest ignoring No Stop times so why ignore ppO2 limits ? __________________ "dove" is NOT the past tense of "dive" Better off OUT of the EU ! www.hugsac.org.uk
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14th February 2008, 19:50	#19 (permalink)
Gobfish1 RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 410	Re: How much Deco Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field) Is there really any need to brag about your PPO2- this is not a Sport its a Hobby at most, there is no need to be competitive and it only leads to people getting hurt IMO. Surely running 1.4 on the bottom doesn't give much if any advantage for deco, burns up your lungs and is much closer to 1.6/1.8 (wherever it is you start to Samb) more risk of overshoot etc. Too much PPO2 for too long makes me abit deaf, can't help but think that deliberately overdoing it is just asking for a hit of some kind? No braging m8 , just saying what i see with the divers i dive with .. IANTD and all the other outfits only tell the great unwashed to dive with a low set point to keep them away from 02 at 6m ,, and i will tell you why ( they cant hold a stop that,s it ,,) all well and good, but we end up with divers that are worried shitless about having o2 with a ppo2 of 1.6 in the ccr , maybe that,s why you see lots of ccr divers passing out in 6m or less ,, LOW ppo2 kills as well , so best we all dive some place in the middle , but you need infomation to know were the middle is even ap say 1,3 for air dives on a ybod ,, OC and ppo2 as for diving OC the numbers started at 1.5ppo2, less .5 for diving in cold water less, .5 for a hard work .. and 1.6 for deco , we all know it is the best ppo2 to be on ,, for deco , keep you're eye on the cns clock , i can do that on the fly as i dive, its not hard ,,, well it could be hard if you only got a book to look them up in ,,, cos you were never told how to work out your cns per min .. yes we have computers to work out are CNS, but they cant look a head as you dive , i see 100s of divers swimming round in 30 40m with a ali 80 of 50% , same dive could be done with a half full 3L cylinder of o2, its not the divers fault that,s how he was told to do it ,, ppo2 of 50% at 6m= useless, for deco ,,, but hay all the word love's it ,,, its v safe if you cant hold a stop ,,, good for the mass , good for selling nitrox card, but its crap for deco,, you need twice as much deco gas .. all needs humping around = more shite hanging of a diver, more drag, more work, more gas used ,, and that,s be4 we even get to do the deco,, just my 2p i will stick with my ppo2 numbers, thank you ,, ccr 1.3 and 1.6 for deco . OC 1.4 / 1.45 max ppo2 on bottom deco 1.6ppo2 with well over a thousand dives on said numbers , i dont see why a should change now dive safe, __________________ Steve G Apparently not the only gay diver in the village http://drinkingliberally.org/blogs/o...nzee-glock.gif http://www.scubatunes.com/audio/vol01/mp3/HiTech.mp3 Last edited by Gobfish1 : 14th February 2008 at 21:57.
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14th February 2008, 23:14	#20 (permalink)
tibby untitled Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2007 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 338	Re: How much Deco Taza, here's an example: Megalodon Apecs Set point: 1.3 but ran VR3 at 1.2 Max Depth: 145ft Water temp: 48degF Time at max depth 17min Time at 90ft 45min Time at 70ft 55min Time on deco @20ft 5min (padded over 2min on VR3) Time on deco @10ft 8min (padded over 6min on VR3) Total run time 130min. Conclusion: It's hard to do a dive on OC in cold water to 40m for 2hrs with 12min of deco and stay warm enough to enjoy it. Yes, if you can afford it, it's worth it Tibby __________________ Does the voice of reason change when you add helium to the mix?...hmm
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