Bad Timekeeping!

wizbang · 29th December 2005, 00:08

Sorry Westwind didn't know about the "timer" option.

I did ass-u-me that you received your Evo with the Nitrox as "regular".
Might want to fill in some more of your profile so we can see how much we should or shouldn't blab on. I did check there before posting.

But on the upside, Louby Lou, that could be your answer to go diving safely, with piece of wind for your Red Sea trip.

Turn it back into the timer mode and take a nitrox computer and away you go. (air computer will also do as will a std timer and tables but hey)

Westwinds · 29th December 2005, 05:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by wizbang)

Might want to fill in some more of your profile so we can see how much we should or shouldn't blab on. I did check there before posting.

Sorry about that. I have corrected this. Below is a link to an intro page which I just added to the site.

http://www.rebreatherworld.com/showt...&referrerid=17

UKSteve · 29th December 2005, 06:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by wizbang)

But on the upside, Louby Lou, that could be your answer to go diving safely, with piece of wind for your Red Sea trip.

Turn it back into the timer mode and take a nitrox computer and away you go. (air computer will also do as will a std timer and tables but hey)

Even in timer mode the timer is faulty! The only version of the software that seems not to have a timer problem is the Trimix version (perhaps we are being encouraged to buy that one!!).

When underwater the dive time shown on the hand set is typically 30-40% less than the real dive time. Looking at a number of recent dives:

52 min dive: D/T 34 mins
30 min dive: D/T 23 mins
41 min dive: D/T 27 mins
41 min dive: D/T 33 mins
70 min dive: D/T 47 mins
52 min dive: D/T 34 mins

The odd thing is that in the header of the dive logs the correct dive time is displayed however the graph shows the same incorrect dive time as seen on the handset during the dive. The unit does, however, callibrate ok and seems to hold a valid set point / display accurate ppO2 data under water (based on dil flushes and O2 flushes at various depths during dives).

I am a little puzzled that an update for the software is still unavalaible - and think it rather dissapointing that there is no information coming from APD about the status of a rewrite. Sadly, it certainly seems to be doing their credibility harm - which is a shame because, otherwise, I am delighted with my Inspiration / Vision.

Steve

***jradomski*** · 29th December 2005, 07:15

Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis)

That sort of error is VERY scary.

As a guy who writes code for a living and has for close to three decades, this sort of "error" generally means one of the following is happening:

An internal storage location is being scribbled on by some piece of code.
An interrupt is being left disabled when it shouldn't be, and thus internal timer "ticks" are being missed entirely by the software.

Both of these are very, very bad news as they would be expected to impact any other computations made using those time values, and in case (1) if that's being scribbled on the obvious next question is "what ELSE might be scribbled on?"

I would NOT dive a unit showing this sort of fault until it is corrected, as if the fault is #1 above there is absolutely no way to be certain that the PO2 settings or readings, or O2 injection parameters are also not being scrambled internally.

If the problem is due to missing ticks you could also have bad injection timing, as that same timebase is almost certainly involved in that process as well.

Simply put, you cannot have any assurance that this problem is limited to internal timekeeping!

I agree with you.. You can also add the interrupt priority is incorrect and something else is preempting it, and sometimes it doesnt get serviced, and over time the amount of "missed" interrupts add up..

jknights · 30th December 2005, 15:17

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

then the other Inspiration users should be encouraged here

it is a far nicer place than the list...

Yes, I have unsubscribed to that list as I can't stand the constant drip of drivel mixed with the odd gem.
I think that the Drogon Inspiration list needs to go for a daily digest rather than individual email contributions being bounced to all.
It would cut down the traffic through their servers as well. !!

jknights · 30th December 2005, 15:20

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

I agree with you.. You can also add the interrupt priority is incorrect and something else is preempting it, and sometimes it doesnt get serviced, and over time the amount of "missed" interrupts add up..

Any which way I'm so glad I didn't order the Vision electronics for my Classic.
I feel a HH from Jeugensen Marine calling.

***Louby Lou*** · 3rd January 2006, 10:59

5 minutes of AP's time is all my customer service is worth to be repeatedly fobbed off with the excuse that the software is STILL being tested etc etc - release is immenient.

Apparently the unit is safe to dive; and we will be receiving this by email. I will copy and paste the email in when it arrives - however any other details etc about the problem they are keeping their lips tightly sealed.

To say that I am annoyed at being constantly fobbed of with the same excuse for almost 5 months now is doing it no justice! I am seriously p*****d off and that is no language for a lady

EDIT - Please for your own peace of mind, contact AP and ask for confirmation - I do not advise that the unit is safe - merely this is what I have been told... However we are still waiting for confirmation!

***Louby Lou*** · 3rd January 2006, 21:42

Just to let you know...

We were advised that something would be through via email today and have asked for this to be followed up in writing; however, as we have come to expect over the last couple of months...

Nicht, Nada, Nothing

We chased this late afternoon but still nothing. You may think I am been a bit hasty in wanting something today... however this software issue has been going on just shy of 5 months now...

Anyway tomorrow is a new day so we shall see what it brings....

**RichClark** · 4th January 2006, 09:55

I don't think that you're being hasty in bringing APD's appalling customer service to our attention; as a potential buyer, this is something that i want to be aware of. This sort of service is not acceptable under any circumstances, particularly where there is any question of doubt over life support equipment.

I briefly considered an APD unit, but am soooo glad I went for a CK - have you ever heard a bad story about Gordon and Kim's customer service.

I'd be demanding a refund, and go for another unit or at the very minimum a full replacement with the trimix software FOC.

Cheers

Rich

***Beanie*** · 4th January 2006, 10:01

Quote: (Originally Posted by RichClark)

I'd be demanding a refund, and go for another unit or at the very minimum a full replacement with the trimix software FOC.

This would be great however we're going on holiday in 25 days, so a different unit isn't an option we need this one fixed.

29th December 2005, 00:08	#71 (permalink)
wizbang WEB MERMEN Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Vision Evolution Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth Australia Posts: 386	Re: Bad Timekeeping! Sorry Westwind didn't know about the "timer" option. I did ass-u-me that you received your Evo with the Nitrox as "regular". Might want to fill in some more of your profile so we can see how much we should or shouldn't blab on. I did check there before posting. But on the upside, Louby Lou, that could be your answer to go diving safely, with piece of wind for your Red Sea trip. Turn it back into the timer mode and take a nitrox computer and away you go. (air computer will also do as will a std timer and tables but hey)
(Offline)

29th December 2005, 05:08	#72 (permalink)
Westwinds Supporting Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 89	Introduction. Quote: (Originally Posted by wizbang) Might want to fill in some more of your profile so we can see how much we should or shouldn't blab on. I did check there before posting. Sorry about that. I have corrected this. Below is a link to an intro page which I just added to the site. http://www.rebreatherworld.com/showt...&referrerid=17 __________________ Located in Canada
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29th December 2005, 06:22	#73 (permalink)
UKSteve Steve Collard Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Weymouth, UK Posts: 601	Re: Bad Timekeeping! Quote: (Originally Posted by wizbang) But on the upside, Louby Lou, that could be your answer to go diving safely, with piece of wind for your Red Sea trip. Turn it back into the timer mode and take a nitrox computer and away you go. (air computer will also do as will a std timer and tables but hey) Even in timer mode the timer is faulty! The only version of the software that seems not to have a timer problem is the Trimix version (perhaps we are being encouraged to buy that one!!). When underwater the dive time shown on the hand set is typically 30-40% less than the real dive time. Looking at a number of recent dives: 52 min dive: D/T 34 mins 30 min dive: D/T 23 mins 41 min dive: D/T 27 mins 41 min dive: D/T 33 mins 70 min dive: D/T 47 mins 52 min dive: D/T 34 mins The odd thing is that in the header of the dive logs the correct dive time is displayed however the graph shows the same incorrect dive time as seen on the handset during the dive. The unit does, however, callibrate ok and seems to hold a valid set point / display accurate ppO2 data under water (based on dil flushes and O2 flushes at various depths during dives). I am a little puzzled that an update for the software is still unavalaible - and think it rather dissapointing that there is no information coming from APD about the status of a rewrite. Sadly, it certainly seems to be doing their credibility harm - which is a shame because, otherwise, I am delighted with my Inspiration / Vision. Steve
(Offline)

29th December 2005, 07:15	#74 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,115	Re: Bad Timekeeping! Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis) That sort of error is VERY scary. As a guy who writes code for a living and has for close to three decades, this sort of "error" generally means one of the following is happening: An internal storage location is being scribbled on by some piece of code. An interrupt is being left disabled when it shouldn't be, and thus internal timer "ticks" are being missed entirely by the software. Both of these are very, very bad news as they would be expected to impact any other computations made using those time values, and in case (1) if that's being scribbled on the obvious next question is "what ELSE might be scribbled on?" I would NOT dive a unit showing this sort of fault until it is corrected, as if the fault is #1 above there is absolutely no way to be certain that the PO2 settings or readings, or O2 injection parameters are also not being scrambled internally. If the problem is due to missing ticks you could also have bad injection timing, as that same timebase is almost certainly involved in that process as well. Simply put, you cannot have any assurance that this problem is limited to internal timekeeping! I agree with you.. You can also add the interrupt priority is incorrect and something else is preempting it, and sometimes it doesnt get serviced, and over time the amount of "missed" interrupts add up.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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30th December 2005, 15:17	#75 (permalink)
jknights New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oliva, Valencia, Spain. Posts: 121	Re: Bad Timekeeping! Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) then the other Inspiration users should be encouraged here it is a far nicer place than the list... Yes, I have unsubscribed to that list as I can't stand the constant drip of drivel mixed with the odd gem. I think that the Drogon Inspiration list needs to go for a daily digest rather than individual email contributions being bounced to all. It would cut down the traffic through their servers as well. !!
(Offline)

30th December 2005, 15:20	#76 (permalink)
jknights New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oliva, Valencia, Spain. Posts: 121	Re: Bad Timekeeping! Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) I agree with you.. You can also add the interrupt priority is incorrect and something else is preempting it, and sometimes it doesnt get serviced, and over time the amount of "missed" interrupts add up.. Any which way I'm so glad I didn't order the Vision electronics for my Classic. I feel a HH from Jeugensen Marine calling.
(Offline)

3rd January 2006, 10:59	#77 (permalink)
*Louby Lou* XLVI WC! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Roman Corinium! Posts: 1,049	Re: Bad Timekeeping! 5 minutes of AP's time is all my customer service is worth to be repeatedly fobbed off with the excuse that the software is STILL being tested etc etc - release is immenient. Apparently the unit is safe to dive; and we will be receiving this by email. I will copy and paste the email in when it arrives - however any other details etc about the problem they are keeping their lips tightly sealed. To say that I am annoyed at being constantly fobbed of with the same excuse for almost 5 months now is doing it no justice! I am seriously p***d off and that is no language for a lady EDIT - Please for your own peace of mind, contact AP and ask for confirmation - I do not advise that the unit is safe - merely this is what I have been told... However we are still waiting for confirmation! __________________ Miss Lou x Use of RBW is subject to the Rebreatherworld Terms and Conditions - Please read! Outlaw Divers** - Sssh we're diving! You heff vays uff dealink vis zem, oh Miss RBW Admin! - Rob Davie Feb 06 Last edited by Louby Lou : 3rd January 2006 at 13:51.
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3rd January 2006, 21:42	#78 (permalink)
*Louby Lou* XLVI WC! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Roman Corinium! Posts: 1,049	Re: Bad Timekeeping! Just to let you know... We were advised that something would be through via email today and have asked for this to be followed up in writing; however, as we have come to expect over the last couple of months... Nicht, Nada, Nothing We chased this late afternoon but still nothing. You may think I am been a bit hasty in wanting something today... however this software issue has been going on just shy of 5 months now... Anyway tomorrow is a new day so we shall see what it brings.... __________________ Miss Lou x Use of RBW is subject to the Rebreatherworld Terms and Conditions - Please read! Outlaw Divers - Sssh we're diving! You heff vays uff dealink vis zem, oh Miss RBW Admin! - Rob Davie Feb 06
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4th January 2006, 09:55	#79 (permalink)
RichClark Classic KISS No. 226 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hove, UK Posts: 793	Re: Bad Timekeeping! I don't think that you're being hasty in bringing APD's appalling customer service to our attention; as a potential buyer, this is something that i want to be aware of. This sort of service is not acceptable under any circumstances, particularly where there is any question of doubt over life support equipment. I briefly considered an APD unit, but am soooo glad I went for a CK - have you ever heard a bad story about Gordon and Kim's customer service. I'd be demanding a refund, and go for another unit or at the very minimum a full replacement with the trimix software FOC. Cheers Rich __________________ The more I learn about women, the more I want to go diving... just don't tell my wife I said that To taste something a little different, try http://www.thechillikitchen.co.uk
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4th January 2006, 10:01	#80 (permalink)
*Beanie* Gallery Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In da house! yeah baby! Posts: 3,312	Re: Bad Timekeeping! Quote: (Originally Posted by RichClark) I'd be demanding a refund, and go for another unit or at the very minimum a full replacement with the trimix software FOC. This would be great however we're going on holiday in 25 days, so a different unit isn't an option we need this one fixed. __________________ Beanie Gallery Admin & Library Assistant. www.outlawdivers.org.uk www.beandiving.co.uk www.beanengineering.co.uk
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