Bad Timekeeping!

***EBT*** · 14th September 2005, 09:52

As an outsider, this one is scary. AP may be copping flack for late release, but personally I'd rather see late release with robust code.

Now they've got the worst of all worlds.... I dont envy them.

dave t · 14th September 2005, 15:21

Oh Crap! I am just off to Sardinia for some deep wreck diving!! hoped it was fixed. Are you getting anything else apart from a time discrepency?

***Beanie*** · 14th September 2005, 15:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t)

Oh Crap! I am just off to Sardinia for some deep wreck diving!! hoped it was fixed. Are you getting anything else apart from a time discrepency?

not ot my knowledge but then I only did the one dive on them, was just having a play as Lou was out with squiffy ears.
The PPO2 controller was operating as expected.

I would make sure you have an independant timer, if I was you.

***Louby Lou*** · 14th September 2005, 16:23

Had an email from Nicky asking me to send over the CCX file from the download for the dive so they can look into it.

Unfortunately I'm in the office at the moment and my laptop is sat at home

So I don't expect any news on it till late tomorrow or even Friday

I'm off on holiday for a long weekend tomorrow evening

but if I hear anything before then, I'll let you know

AD_ward9 · 14th September 2005, 19:25

Gram

Quote: (Originally Posted by Louby Lou)

Whatever it is, I don't like

Its also not something that you'd notice straight off, so I was glad that it was only on a short and sweet bimble and not a more 'serious' dive that Beanie noticed it. Although either way its not good. Hopefully it should be sorted soon, and another software update should be winging its way shortly

What it means is there is no formal or structured software QA. Quite a revelation.

In creating software of this type, any professional software house uses specialist QA tools that would pick up bugs like this in an instant. To do this the code is run on a test harness, and then on a simulator. The simulator links in a Windows or X GUI instead of the text display (even taking the same display commands), and drives the sensors to produce a large number of profiles (we run millions of profiles). In each case, the Software QA Tool then checks the bitmap on the screen against a database of what it should be and reports all differences. This QA software is a standard product used by all decent organisations I know who put out critical software. As I said, it would pick up anything like this clock bug immediately.

The whole process is repeated a few times. For example if one is using the HiTide compiler with one of the automated code verification packages, then the package is run with the QA software in the background, which checks everything that goes to the Virtual IO. Once that is right, the Windows GUI is linked in instead of the Virtual IO, and literally millions of profiles are run using a processor farm again with the QA tool running. Even a 1 pixel difference is picked up. Other software checks the data that is displayed is within limits.

It normally takes about 4 times more engineering effort to develop the test harnesses and verification of a piece of life critical software, than it takes to write it in the first place.

If Martin wants to give us a call, we can give the names of the QA software that does this stuff, or are happy to create the automatic testing scripts and run them for him under normal commercial terms.

This time it is just the clock. Next time it could be something more serious.

Cheers,
Alex

TechBlue · 14th September 2005, 20:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by wreckweasel)

As an outsider, this one is scary. AP may be copping flack for late release, but personally I'd rather see late release with robust code.

Now they've got the worst of all worlds.... I dont envy them.

Let me try this one again, I have heard that AP is not currently shipping any Vision electronics at all, I have heard it from two different sources but it could also just be a rumor, has anybody else heard anything?

decoweenie · 14th September 2005, 20:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by TechBlue)

Let me try this one again, I have heard that AP is not currently shipping any Vision electronics at all, I have heard it from two different sources but it could also just be a rumor, has anybody else heard anything?

Long answer... My Evolution was "shipped" 3 weeks ago (15-Aug), but Fed-Ex lost export paperwork so it has been sitting in UK Customs for the duration. Now, the paperwork has been redone so it is on its way again...

Short answer... If the rumor is true, it must be less than 3 weeks.

TechBlue · 14th September 2005, 22:19

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Long answer... My Evolution was "shipped" 3 weeks ago (15-Aug), but Fed-Ex lost export paperwork so it has been sitting in UK Customs for the duration. Now, the paperwork has been redone so it is on its way again...

Short answer... If the rumor is true, it must be less than 3 weeks.

I just heard from a friend who has the skinny and I was told that the units are shipping as fast as they can make them.

decoweenie · 15th September 2005, 05:02

Quote: (Originally Posted by TechBlue)

...the units are shipping as fast as they can make them.

That's what I thought as well with the long waiting list and so many orders from existing Inspiration owners as well as new.

Underwaterbear · 15th September 2005, 06:35

Quote:

This time it is just the clock. Next time it could be something more serious.

Is it just the clock, as in, is it just the display of elapsed time while the internal computations and decompression info are based on an internal clock that might be okay.

Or are deco calcs being affected too?

If the latter, maybe this time is the serious next time!

(best not to trust it...for the time being...guess all will be revealed in good time.)
Hmm sorry about that, couldn't help myself.

14th September 2005, 09:52	#11 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 2,115	As an outsider, this one is scary. AP may be copping flack for late release, but personally I'd rather see late release with robust code. Now they've got the worst of all worlds.... I dont envy them. __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! RBW Terms of service
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14th September 2005, 15:21	#12 (permalink)
dave t RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts: 674	Oh Crap! I am just off to Sardinia for some deep wreck diving!! hoped it was fixed. Are you getting anything else apart from a time discrepency?
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14th September 2005, 15:59	#13 (permalink)
*Beanie* Gallery Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In da house! yeah baby! Posts: 3,312	Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t) Oh Crap! I am just off to Sardinia for some deep wreck diving!! hoped it was fixed. Are you getting anything else apart from a time discrepency? not ot my knowledge but then I only did the one dive on them, was just having a play as Lou was out with squiffy ears. The PPO2 controller was operating as expected. I would make sure you have an independant timer, if I was you. __________________ Beanie Gallery Admin & Library Assistant. www.outlawdivers.org.uk www.beandiving.co.uk www.beanengineering.co.uk
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14th September 2005, 16:23	#14 (permalink)
*Louby Lou* XLVI WC! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Roman Corinium! Posts: 1,049	Had an email from Nicky asking me to send over the CCX file from the download for the dive so they can look into it. Unfortunately I'm in the office at the moment and my laptop is sat at home So I don't expect any news on it till late tomorrow or even Friday I'm off on holiday for a long weekend tomorrow evening but if I hear anything before then, I'll let you know __________________ Miss Lou x Use of RBW is subject to the Rebreatherworld Terms and Conditions - Please read! Outlaw Divers - Sssh we're diving! You heff vays uff dealink vis zem, oh Miss RBW Admin! - Rob Davie Feb 06
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14th September 2005, 19:25	#15 (permalink)
AD_ward9 RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 2,016	Gram Quote: (Originally Posted by Louby Lou) Whatever it is, I don't like Its also not something that you'd notice straight off, so I was glad that it was only on a short and sweet bimble and not a more 'serious' dive that Beanie noticed it. Although either way its not good. Hopefully it should be sorted soon, and another software update should be winging its way shortly What it means is there is no formal or structured software QA. Quite a revelation. In creating software of this type, any professional software house uses specialist QA tools that would pick up bugs like this in an instant. To do this the code is run on a test harness, and then on a simulator. The simulator links in a Windows or X GUI instead of the text display (even taking the same display commands), and drives the sensors to produce a large number of profiles (we run millions of profiles). In each case, the Software QA Tool then checks the bitmap on the screen against a database of what it should be and reports all differences. This QA software is a standard product used by all decent organisations I know who put out critical software. As I said, it would pick up anything like this clock bug immediately. The whole process is repeated a few times. For example if one is using the HiTide compiler with one of the automated code verification packages, then the package is run with the QA software in the background, which checks everything that goes to the Virtual IO. Once that is right, the Windows GUI is linked in instead of the Virtual IO, and literally millions of profiles are run using a processor farm again with the QA tool running. Even a 1 pixel difference is picked up. Other software checks the data that is displayed is within limits. It normally takes about 4 times more engineering effort to develop the test harnesses and verification of a piece of life critical software, than it takes to write it in the first place. If Martin wants to give us a call, we can give the names of the QA software that does this stuff, or are happy to create the automatic testing scripts and run them for him under normal commercial terms. This time it is just the clock. Next time it could be something more serious. Cheers, Alex
(Offline)

14th September 2005, 20:51	#16 (permalink)
TechBlue RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Classic Kiss Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Optima Other CCR Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Costa del Sol, Spain Posts: 212	Quote: (Originally Posted by wreckweasel) As an outsider, this one is scary. AP may be copping flack for late release, but personally I'd rather see late release with robust code. Now they've got the worst of all worlds.... I dont envy them. Let me try this one again, I have heard that AP is not currently shipping any Vision electronics at all, I have heard it from two different sources but it could also just be a rumor, has anybody else heard anything? __________________ Cheers, Chris www.tech-blue.com The site dedicated to Rebreather and Technical diving "We only sell what we dive"
(Offline)

14th September 2005, 20:56	#17 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Quote: (Originally Posted by TechBlue) Let me try this one again, I have heard that AP is not currently shipping any Vision electronics at all, I have heard it from two different sources but it could also just be a rumor, has anybody else heard anything? Long answer... My Evolution was "shipped" 3 weeks ago (15-Aug), but Fed-Ex lost export paperwork so it has been sitting in UK Customs for the duration. Now, the paperwork has been redone so it is on its way again... Short answer... If the rumor is true, it must be less than 3 weeks.
(Offline)

14th September 2005, 22:19	#18 (permalink)
TechBlue RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Classic Kiss Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Optima Other CCR Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Costa del Sol, Spain Posts: 212	Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Long answer... My Evolution was "shipped" 3 weeks ago (15-Aug), but Fed-Ex lost export paperwork so it has been sitting in UK Customs for the duration. Now, the paperwork has been redone so it is on its way again... Short answer... If the rumor is true, it must be less than 3 weeks. I just heard from a friend who has the skinny and I was told that the units are shipping as fast as they can make them. __________________ Cheers, Chris www.tech-blue.com The site dedicated to Rebreather and Technical diving "We only sell what we dive"
(Offline)

15th September 2005, 05:02	#19 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Quote: (Originally Posted by TechBlue) ...the units are shipping as fast as they can make them. That's what I thought as well with the long waiting list and so many orders from existing Inspiration owners as well as new.
(Offline)

15th September 2005, 06:35	#20 (permalink)
Underwaterbear A Prismer in Megland Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 200	Quote: This time it is just the clock. Next time it could be something more serious. Is it just the clock, as in, is it just the display of elapsed time while the internal computations and decompression info are based on an internal clock that might be okay. Or are deco calcs being affected too? If the latter, maybe this time is the serious next time! (best not to trust it...for the time being...guess all will be revealed in good time.) Hmm sorry about that, couldn't help myself.
(Offline)

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