Resolving Unit Height Differences for Two Divers

**PhilSiswick** · 9th October 2007, 13:57

Hi All,

Once again, I'm asking you all for help. Sorry in advance for the length, but I wanted to explain where I'd got to.

When I bought my Vision, the intent was that my wife and I would use the same unit, as we do not currently dive at the same time (risk mitigation, as we have young children). I had imagined that, by changing the lungs and the backplate, we could happily each use it.

What I had underestimated was that my wife is only about 5', while I am 6'4". It certainly looks as if the Vision will be simply too tall for my wife to be able to use comfortably. So, I'm exploring our options, which I think are as follows:

- By an Evo as a second unit. This has many benefits and is probably the ideal solution, but is going to cost at least 4.5k GBP to 5k GBP, depending on age, options and how cheaply I can get hold of a BOV and 4th cell setup etc. We certainly don't dive enough to justify a second unit and it wouldn't be an option for next year (house extension planned and I work in Investment Banking, so don't hold out much hope for my 07 bonus

). So, this one is out
- Build an Involution. This is option #2 and I like it very much, but cost is still relatively high, as we'd need to purchase pretty much everything except the loop, head and scrubber, to avoid spending a large amount of time pulling the manifold etc from one box to another. I'd guess that the cost of this must be in the 1k GBP to 1.5k GBP bracket. So, this is certainly a good option, but it may not be all that easy to source all the parts and leaves my wife limited to using 2l cylinders, which isn't ideal (we are a long way from O2 suppliers and I don't like decanting O2)
- Put the Vision in a frame that allows the height to be adjusted. This would mean that, apart from the lungs and backplate, we'd be diving exactly the same unit. Estimated cost is in the .5 to .6k GBP bracket, as I've already managed to get hold of some medium lungs. So, this is my preferred option

So, I need to find a frame that allows height to be adjusted. I'd guess that the easiest way to do this would be to choose a frame that has removable legs and buy two separate sets of legs. A search around the available frames has led me to the KT box or the Micheal Hearn Ali Box, as they seem to have removable bases. I already have a Decoweenie frame, but it isn't really suitable for this mod, as it has fixed feet.

Has anyone else tried this before? If so, how did you solve it? Does anyone else have any other suggestions?

Many thanks in advance,

Ben Field · 9th October 2007, 14:27

Hi Tango,

A couple of thoughts-

Seeing as you already have the TravelFrame why not modify that, I'm not sure how much height you need to lose but the "feet" look about 4" high?

A competant welding shop could shorten and re attach the side tubes to the base the scrubber sits on but is that shourt enough?
(Obviously you'll need to fix the lid you busted as well

)

I think you'd need to mount a couple of Dumpy 3ltrs on it to avoid the "rocket man" look and trim issues on Pony 3ltrs.

A second option, at least for the training phase is the superlight method, see- http://www.rebreatherworld.com/inspi...html#post60662 This has big potential size and weight reduction and for training the added protection of the case is perhaps less necessary than the diving we usually do?

colinicky · 9th October 2007, 16:14

I would speak to John at KT & explain what you are aiming for & see what he can come up with .He can normally come up with answers to most things ! If your going to the dive show he will be there .
How much of a height difference do you need ?

**PhilSiswick** · 9th October 2007, 16:20

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field)

Hi Tango,

A couple of thoughts-

Seeing as you already have the TravelFrame why not modify that, I'm not sure how much height you need to lose but the "feet" look about 4" high?

A competant welding shop could shorten and re attach the side tubes to the base the scrubber sits on but is that shourt enough?

Hi Ben,

The challenge is being able to change heights if Mayte or I are using the unit without having to move it from one frame to another, so this method wouldn't work.

Quote:

(Obviously you'll need to fix the lid you busted as well

)

Curses, I was hoping that you wouldn't divulge that. I must have had a screw loose that day....

Quote:

I think you'd need to mount a couple of Dumpy 3ltrs on it to avoid the "rocket man" look and trim issues on Pony 3ltrs.

That's an option. I'm not expecting to have to shorten the frame too much though, so will try to stay with the standard 3s to start with.

Quote:

A second option, at least for the training phase is the superlight method, see- http://www.rebreatherworld.com/inspi...html#post60662 This has big potential size and weight reduction and for training the added protection of the case is perhaps less necessary than the diving we usually do?

Good idea - certainly worth pursuing.

Thanks,

**PhilSiswick** · 9th October 2007, 16:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by colinicky)

I would speak to John at KT & explain what you are aiming for & see what he can come up with .He can normally come up with answers to most things ! If your going to the dive show he will be there .
How much of a height difference do you need ?

Hi Colin,

Thanks - I'll do that. Sadly, I'm not allowed to go to the Dive Show, as I'm off to Scapa the following weekend

.

Not sure how much of a height difference it requires - I'm going to do some measuring tonight, I hope.

Cheers,

***Beanie*** · 9th October 2007, 16:23

Quote: (Originally Posted by PhilSiswick)

Hi Colin,

Thanks - I'll do that. Sadly, I'm not allowed to go to the Dive Show, as I'm off to Scapa the following weekend

.

Not sure how much of a height difference it requires - I'm going to do some measuring tonight, I hope.

Cheers,

the inspo to evo is what 3-4 inches?

**PhilSiswick** · 9th October 2007, 16:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by Beanie)

the inspo to evo is what 3-4 inches?

That's what I thought - thanks for confirming. I now need to find out what the leg length on the KT and Alibox are.

Cheers,

colinicky · 9th October 2007, 16:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by PhilSiswick)

That's what I thought - thanks for confirming. I now need to find out what the leg length on the KT and Alibox are.

Cheers,

the legs on mine are approx 9" . I am 5'8" with a 31" inside leg .Mine were made longer so I can sit comfortable with the unit on but no weight on me while kitting up .John has about 4 different lengths as standard but can make any length .
The more important thing is that I have 5 inchs clear between the bottom of the first stages & the base of the frame ,which is relevent to the height difference you need to achieve .this is on a Vision .
The other thing to consider if you need to change counterlungs is divetheworld's quick release system ,so you would only need to pinch the clip rather than stripping everything to change lungs

Simon A · 9th October 2007, 17:57

Phil,
John at kent tooling does very nice (and reasonably priced) stainless work. It may well be worth contacting him and seeing if he can make an adjustable base for your travel frame. that way you get exactly what you want for minimum outlay.
HTH
Simon A

jkaterenchuk · 9th October 2007, 18:33

Quote: (Originally Posted by PhilSiswick)

Hi Ben,

The challenge is being able to change heights if Mayte or I are using the unit without having to move it from one frame to another, so this method wouldn't work.

What if you modified it so that one tube could telescope into the other thus allowing for height changes. See this thread with a travel frame with pictures from Kiwidiver that is of similar design.

I have a KT Frame and its a great piece of equipment but it is significantly heavier than the standard box. One word of caution would be to confirm the weight of the frame and if the difference is a significant issue to take into account between you and your wife. You would not want to solve one problem only to create another.

Hope this info is of value to you.

John

9th October 2007, 13:57	#1 (permalink)
PhilSiswick Phil Siswick, Tango Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 1,099	Resolving Unit Height Differences for Two Divers Hi All, Once again, I'm asking you all for help. Sorry in advance for the length, but I wanted to explain where I'd got to. When I bought my Vision, the intent was that my wife and I would use the same unit, as we do not currently dive at the same time (risk mitigation, as we have young children). I had imagined that, by changing the lungs and the backplate, we could happily each use it. What I had underestimated was that my wife is only about 5', while I am 6'4". It certainly looks as if the Vision will be simply too tall for my wife to be able to use comfortably. So, I'm exploring our options, which I think are as follows: - By an Evo as a second unit. This has many benefits and is probably the ideal solution, but is going to cost at least 4.5k GBP to 5k GBP, depending on age, options and how cheaply I can get hold of a BOV and 4th cell setup etc. We certainly don't dive enough to justify a second unit and it wouldn't be an option for next year (house extension planned and I work in Investment Banking, so don't hold out much hope for my 07 bonus ). So, this one is out - Build an Involution. This is option #2 and I like it very much, but cost is still relatively high, as we'd need to purchase pretty much everything except the loop, head and scrubber, to avoid spending a large amount of time pulling the manifold etc from one box to another. I'd guess that the cost of this must be in the 1k GBP to 1.5k GBP bracket. So, this is certainly a good option, but it may not be all that easy to source all the parts and leaves my wife limited to using 2l cylinders, which isn't ideal (we are a long way from O2 suppliers and I don't like decanting O2) - Put the Vision in a frame that allows the height to be adjusted. This would mean that, apart from the lungs and backplate, we'd be diving exactly the same unit. Estimated cost is in the .5 to .6k GBP bracket, as I've already managed to get hold of some medium lungs. So, this is my preferred option So, I need to find a frame that allows height to be adjusted. I'd guess that the easiest way to do this would be to choose a frame that has removable legs and buy two separate sets of legs. A search around the available frames has led me to the KT box or the Micheal Hearn Ali Box, as they seem to have removable bases. I already have a Decoweenie frame, but it isn't really suitable for this mod, as it has fixed feet. Has anyone else tried this before? If so, how did you solve it? Does anyone else have any other suggestions? Many thanks in advance, __________________ Phil (WSKD 0001) I have always felt that the dive I am on is not nearly important as the dives I plan to be on the rest of my life. Tom Rose, 2007 The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is willing to do and dare. The sure thing boat never gets far from shore. Charles A. Lindbergh www.hugsac.org.uk
(Offline)

9th October 2007, 14:27	#2 (permalink)
Ben Field CK+Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 1,780	Re: Resolving Unit Height Differences for Two Divers Hi Tango, A couple of thoughts- Seeing as you already have the TravelFrame why not modify that, I'm not sure how much height you need to lose but the "feet" look about 4" high? A competant welding shop could shorten and re attach the side tubes to the base the scrubber sits on but is that shourt enough? (Obviously you'll need to fix the lid you busted as well ) I think you'd need to mount a couple of Dumpy 3ltrs on it to avoid the "rocket man" look and trim issues on Pony 3ltrs. A second option, at least for the training phase is the superlight method, see- http://www.rebreatherworld.com/inspi...html#post60662 This has big potential size and weight reduction and for training the added protection of the case is perhaps less necessary than the diving we usually do? __________________ Know your PPO2, Pre-breath, Use checklists, Validate cells at 6mtrs, Use pure O2 at or near surface, Use a BOV, Don't dive Solo, Change Slime and Cells as recommended by Manufacturer and RTFM! www.hugsac.org.uk
(Offline)

9th October 2007, 16:14	#3 (permalink)
colinicky RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: uk Posts: 682	Re: Resolving Unit Height Differences for Two Divers I would speak to John at KT & explain what you are aiming for & see what he can come up with .He can normally come up with answers to most things ! If your going to the dive show he will be there . How much of a height difference do you need ? __________________ Colin I trust my rebreather completely , I just don't trust the user onwards & downwards
(Offline)

9th October 2007, 16:20	#4 (permalink)
PhilSiswick Phil Siswick, Tango Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 1,099	Re: Resolving Unit Height Differences for Two Divers Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field) Hi Tango, A couple of thoughts- Seeing as you already have the TravelFrame why not modify that, I'm not sure how much height you need to lose but the "feet" look about 4" high? A competant welding shop could shorten and re attach the side tubes to the base the scrubber sits on but is that shourt enough? Hi Ben, The challenge is being able to change heights if Mayte or I are using the unit without having to move it from one frame to another, so this method wouldn't work. Quote: (Obviously you'll need to fix the lid you busted as well ) Curses, I was hoping that you wouldn't divulge that. I must have had a screw loose that day.... Quote: I think you'd need to mount a couple of Dumpy 3ltrs on it to avoid the "rocket man" look and trim issues on Pony 3ltrs. That's an option. I'm not expecting to have to shorten the frame too much though, so will try to stay with the standard 3s to start with. Quote: A second option, at least for the training phase is the superlight method, see- http://www.rebreatherworld.com/inspi...html#post60662 This has big potential size and weight reduction and for training the added protection of the case is perhaps less necessary than the diving we usually do? Good idea - certainly worth pursuing. Thanks, __________________ Phil (WSKD 0001) I have always felt that the dive I am on is not nearly important as the dives I plan to be on the rest of my life. Tom Rose, 2007 The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is willing to do and dare. The sure thing boat never gets far from shore. Charles A. Lindbergh www.hugsac.org.uk
(Offline)

9th October 2007, 16:22	#5 (permalink)
PhilSiswick Phil Siswick, Tango Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 1,099	Re: Resolving Unit Height Differences for Two Divers Quote: (Originally Posted by colinicky) I would speak to John at KT & explain what you are aiming for & see what he can come up with .He can normally come up with answers to most things ! If your going to the dive show he will be there . How much of a height difference do you need ? Hi Colin, Thanks - I'll do that. Sadly, I'm not allowed to go to the Dive Show, as I'm off to Scapa the following weekend . Not sure how much of a height difference it requires - I'm going to do some measuring tonight, I hope. Cheers, __________________ Phil (WSKD 0001) I have always felt that the dive I am on is not nearly important as the dives I plan to be on the rest of my life. Tom Rose, 2007 The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is willing to do and dare. The sure thing boat never gets far from shore. Charles A. Lindbergh www.hugsac.org.uk
(Offline)

9th October 2007, 16:23	#6 (permalink)
*Beanie* Gallery Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In da house! yeah baby! Posts: 3,312	Re: Resolving Unit Height Differences for Two Divers Quote: (Originally Posted by PhilSiswick) Hi Colin, Thanks - I'll do that. Sadly, I'm not allowed to go to the Dive Show, as I'm off to Scapa the following weekend . Not sure how much of a height difference it requires - I'm going to do some measuring tonight, I hope. Cheers, the inspo to evo is what 3-4 inches? __________________ Beanie Gallery Admin & Library Assistant. www.outlawdivers.org.uk www.beandiving.co.uk www.beanengineering.co.uk
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9th October 2007, 16:36	#7 (permalink)
PhilSiswick Phil Siswick, Tango Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 1,099	Re: Resolving Unit Height Differences for Two Divers Quote: (Originally Posted by Beanie) the inspo to evo is what 3-4 inches? That's what I thought - thanks for confirming. I now need to find out what the leg length on the KT and Alibox are. Cheers, __________________ Phil (WSKD 0001) I have always felt that the dive I am on is not nearly important as the dives I plan to be on the rest of my life. Tom Rose, 2007 The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is willing to do and dare. The sure thing boat never gets far from shore. Charles A. Lindbergh www.hugsac.org.uk
(Offline)

9th October 2007, 16:54	#8 (permalink)
colinicky RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: uk Posts: 682	Re: Resolving Unit Height Differences for Two Divers Quote: (Originally Posted by PhilSiswick) That's what I thought - thanks for confirming. I now need to find out what the leg length on the KT and Alibox are. Cheers, the legs on mine are approx 9" . I am 5'8" with a 31" inside leg .Mine were made longer so I can sit comfortable with the unit on but no weight on me while kitting up .John has about 4 different lengths as standard but can make any length . The more important thing is that I have 5 inchs clear between the bottom of the first stages & the base of the frame ,which is relevent to the height difference you need to achieve .this is on a Vision . The other thing to consider if you need to change counterlungs is divetheworld's quick release system ,so you would only need to pinch the clip rather than stripping everything to change lungs __________________ Colin I trust my rebreather completely , I just don't trust the user onwards & downwards
(Offline)

9th October 2007, 17:57	#9 (permalink)
Simon A Escapee from DIY Rebreather's Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Reading, UK Posts: 346	Re: Resolving Unit Height Differences for Two Divers Phil, John at kent tooling does very nice (and reasonably priced) stainless work. It may well be worth contacting him and seeing if he can make an adjustable base for your travel frame. that way you get exactly what you want for minimum outlay. HTH Simon A
(Offline)

9th October 2007, 18:33	#10 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk . Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lititz, PA Posts: 1,100	Re: Resolving Unit Height Differences for Two Divers Quote: (Originally Posted by PhilSiswick) Hi Ben, The challenge is being able to change heights if Mayte or I are using the unit without having to move it from one frame to another, so this method wouldn't work. What if you modified it so that one tube could telescope into the other thus allowing for height changes. See this thread with a travel frame with pictures from Kiwidiver that is of similar design. I have a KT Frame and its a great piece of equipment but it is significantly heavier than the standard box. One word of caution would be to confirm the weight of the frame and if the difference is a significant issue to take into account between you and your wife. You would not want to solve one problem only to create another. Hope this info is of value to you. John
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