Flying your unit manually .

Batman · 28th August 2007, 21:12

Hi.
Can anyone tell me how you fly your unit manually using the electronics as a safety net. Also why you may want to do this

I understand that in the event the solenoid gets stuck open you can turn the o2 valve on and of keep to the set point but this seems a ot of work to do all the time.
Is it a case of keeping the handset on the low set point but using the manual O2 inflator to reach a higher set point?
I have an Inspiration Classic but am still to use it. I am doing my mod 1 next week so this will hopefully be covered during the course

Joe

KevDD · 28th August 2007, 21:35

Quote: (Originally Posted by Batman)

Hi.
Can anyone tell me how you fly your unit manually using the electronics as a safety net. Also why you may want to do this

I understand that in the event the solenoid gets stuck open you can turn the o2 valve on and of keep to the set point but this seems a ot of work to do all the time.
Is it a case of keeping the handset on the low set point but using the manual O2 inflator to reach a higher set point?
I have an Inspiration Classic but am still to use it. I am doing my mod 1 next week so this will hopefully be covered during the course

Joe

Hi Batman,

It should be covered in your course as it is a very important skill. It is done if a solenoid was locked closed then a way of staying on your loop would be to inject the oxygen manually via the manual add button.

David Pye · 28th August 2007, 21:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by Batman)

Hi.
Is it a case of keeping the handset on the low set point but using the manual O2 inflator to reach a higher set point?
Joe

Well, it doesn't have to be the low setpoint, but it involves, say, having the setpoint at 1.0 and driving the unit at 1.3.

One of the arguments for driving the ppO2 yourself is that it tends to encourage vigilance of keeping an eye on what's going on, whereas leaving the electronics to do it tends to breed complacency.

However, lots of people take issue with this idea.

Personally, I drive a KISS so I'm used to maintaining my own ppO2

Batman · 28th August 2007, 21:59

Cheers Kev

Thats not what I mean though.

I understand how and why in the event of a malfunction of some discription. What I can't see any reason for is using the unit in this manner all the time, using the electronics as a back up and how this is done.
I noticed this point in the recent article

Minimising Rebreather Fatalities
By Stuart Ford

10 – Fly your unit manually using the electronics as a safety net. I strongly believe that anything man made is not perfect – we can spend billions on developing electronics be they for space ships, airplanes, rockets or nuclear power stations and we all know they go wrong and cause fatalities – a fraction of development cash is spent on Rebreathers compared to the above so let’s use them as a safety net.
I was unable to identify a single fatality that occurred when a unit was being flown manually.

Batman · 28th August 2007, 22:09

Quote:

Well, it doesn't have to be the low setpoint, but it involves, say, having the setpoint at 1.0 and driving the unit at 1.3.

One of the arguments for driving the ppO2 yourself is that it tends to encourage vigilance of keeping an eye on what's going on, whereas leaving the electronics to do it tends to breed complacency.

Cheers David
I think I am getting the idea now.

tflaris · 28th August 2007, 22:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by Batman)

Cheers Kev

Thats not what I mean though.

I understand how and why in the event of a malfunction of some discription. What I can't see any reason for is using the unit in this manner all the time, using the electronics as a back up and how this is done.
I noticed this point in the recent article

Minimising Rebreather Fatalities
By Stuart Ford

10 – Fly your unit manually using the electronics as a safety net. I strongly believe that anything man made is not perfect – we can spend billions on developing electronics be they for space ships, airplanes, rockets or nuclear power stations and we all know they go wrong and cause fatalities – a fraction of development cash is spent on Rebreathers compared to the above so let’s use them as a safety net.
I was unable to identify a single fatality that occurred when a unit was being flown manually.

IMHO Rule #10 is the ultimate fail safe plan and by following this rule it would prevent problems expected or unexpected.

As stated in one of the earlier threads the exercises are to create muscle memory and constant awareness of your PO2.

I leave my evo in auto mode but have learn to constantly check it and on a regular basis I will set a low PO2 say .8 on a shallow dive but practice running the unit on a slightly higher PO2 say 1.0 just to stay in practice.

Good luck on your class and you will learn alot from the experience. Who is your instructor?

David Pye · 28th August 2007, 22:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by Batman)

Cheers David
I think I am getting the idea now.

Oh, and I forgot to mention, if you're flying the unit manually, the sound of the solenoid firing is a wake-up call that you weren't paying attention to the po2 and let it fall to the unit's setpoint.

Depth-junkie · 28th August 2007, 22:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by KevDD)

Hi Batman,

It should be covered in your course as it is a very important skill. It is done if a solenoid was locked closed then a way of staying on your loop would be to inject the oxygen manually via the manual add button.

Yes it's a very hard skill to master, you push a button give a few good breaths to work the 02 through the loop. Watch the no.s rise, 02 still a bit low push the button again and repeat the process

I honestly cant see why anyone with a ECCR would run it manual all the time, once in a while for a few mins to make sure you can still do this very hard important skill

The Kiss boys it is obviously a different ball game as they have no choice, but for ECCR Why?????

Its like pushing your car up the road yourself, rather than letting the engine do its thing.

ATB
Gareth

PCDiver · 28th August 2007, 22:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by Depth-junkie)

I honestly cant see why anyone with a ECCR would run it manual all the time, once in a while for a few mins to make sure you can still do this very hard important skill

The Kiss boys it is obviously a different ball game as they have no choice, but for ECCR Why?????

Its like pushing your car up the road yourself, rather than letting the engine do its thing.

Exactly my idea as well. Why would you spend the money on a controller if you are not going to use it?

DepthCharge · 29th August 2007, 00:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by David Pye)

Oh, and I forgot to mention, if you're flying the unit manually, the sound of the solenoid firing is a wake-up call that you weren't paying attention to the po2 and let it fall to the unit's setpoint.

Unless the solenoid fails to fire.......................

28th August 2007, 21:12	#1 (permalink)
Batman New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Norwich UK Posts: 10	Flying your unit manually . Hi. Can anyone tell me how you fly your unit manually using the electronics as a safety net. Also why you may want to do this I understand that in the event the solenoid gets stuck open you can turn the o2 valve on and of keep to the set point but this seems a ot of work to do all the time. Is it a case of keeping the handset on the low set point but using the manual O2 inflator to reach a higher set point? I have an Inspiration Classic but am still to use it. I am doing my mod 1 next week so this will hopefully be covered during the course Joe __________________ It has been said the deeper you dive the better it feels...... Personally, I think it's more about the size of the hole you can squeeze into!!!!!! www.norwichscuba.co.uk
(Offline)

28th August 2007, 21:35	#2 (permalink)
KevDD Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 99	Re: Flying your unit manually . Quote: (Originally Posted by Batman) Hi. Can anyone tell me how you fly your unit manually using the electronics as a safety net. Also why you may want to do this I understand that in the event the solenoid gets stuck open you can turn the o2 valve on and of keep to the set point but this seems a ot of work to do all the time. Is it a case of keeping the handset on the low set point but using the manual O2 inflator to reach a higher set point? I have an Inspiration Classic but am still to use it. I am doing my mod 1 next week so this will hopefully be covered during the course Joe Hi Batman, It should be covered in your course as it is a very important skill. It is done if a solenoid was locked closed then a way of staying on your loop would be to inject the oxygen manually via the manual add button.
(Offline)

28th August 2007, 21:54	#3 (permalink)
David Pye CK#69 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 271	Re: Flying your unit manually . Quote: (Originally Posted by Batman) Hi. Is it a case of keeping the handset on the low set point but using the manual O2 inflator to reach a higher set point? Joe Well, it doesn't have to be the low setpoint, but it involves, say, having the setpoint at 1.0 and driving the unit at 1.3. One of the arguments for driving the ppO2 yourself is that it tends to encourage vigilance of keeping an eye on what's going on, whereas leaving the electronics to do it tends to breed complacency. However, lots of people take issue with this idea. Personally, I drive a KISS so I'm used to maintaining my own ppO2
(Offline)

28th August 2007, 21:59	#4 (permalink)
Batman New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Norwich UK Posts: 10	Re: Flying your unit manually . Cheers Kev Thats not what I mean though. I understand how and why in the event of a malfunction of some discription. What I can't see any reason for is using the unit in this manner all the time, using the electronics as a back up and how this is done. I noticed this point in the recent article Minimising Rebreather Fatalities By Stuart Ford 10 – Fly your unit manually using the electronics as a safety net. I strongly believe that anything man made is not perfect – we can spend billions on developing electronics be they for space ships, airplanes, rockets or nuclear power stations and we all know they go wrong and cause fatalities – a fraction of development cash is spent on Rebreathers compared to the above so let’s use them as a safety net. I was unable to identify a single fatality that occurred when a unit was being flown manually. __________________ It has been said the deeper you dive the better it feels...... Personally, I think it's more about the size of the hole you can squeeze into!!!!!! www.norwichscuba.co.uk
(Offline)

28th August 2007, 22:09	#5 (permalink)
Batman New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Norwich UK Posts: 10	Re: Flying your unit manually . Quote: Well, it doesn't have to be the low setpoint, but it involves, say, having the setpoint at 1.0 and driving the unit at 1.3. One of the arguments for driving the ppO2 yourself is that it tends to encourage vigilance of keeping an eye on what's going on, whereas leaving the electronics to do it tends to breed complacency. Cheers David I think I am getting the idea now. __________________ It has been said the deeper you dive the better it feels...... Personally, I think it's more about the size of the hole you can squeeze into!!!!!! www.norwichscuba.co.uk
(Offline)

28th August 2007, 22:12	#6 (permalink)
tflaris God save the Queen Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Neptune Beach, Florida Posts: 274	Re: Flying your unit manually . Quote: (Originally Posted by Batman) Cheers Kev Thats not what I mean though. I understand how and why in the event of a malfunction of some discription. What I can't see any reason for is using the unit in this manner all the time, using the electronics as a back up and how this is done. I noticed this point in the recent article Minimising Rebreather Fatalities By Stuart Ford 10 – Fly your unit manually using the electronics as a safety net. I strongly believe that anything man made is not perfect – we can spend billions on developing electronics be they for space ships, airplanes, rockets or nuclear power stations and we all know they go wrong and cause fatalities – a fraction of development cash is spent on Rebreathers compared to the above so let’s use them as a safety net. I was unable to identify a single fatality that occurred when a unit was being flown manually. IMHO Rule #10 is the ultimate fail safe plan and by following this rule it would prevent problems expected or unexpected. As stated in one of the earlier threads the exercises are to create muscle memory and constant awareness of your PO2. I leave my evo in auto mode but have learn to constantly check it and on a regular basis I will set a low PO2 say .8 on a shallow dive but practice running the unit on a slightly higher PO2 say 1.0 just to stay in practice. Good luck on your class and you will learn alot from the experience. Who is your instructor? __________________ "Except for this one, I have come to the conclusion that all generalizations are false" -Jim Hayes
(Offline)

28th August 2007, 22:22	#7 (permalink)
David Pye CK#69 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 271	Re: Flying your unit manually . Quote: (Originally Posted by Batman) Cheers David I think I am getting the idea now. Oh, and I forgot to mention, if you're flying the unit manually, the sound of the solenoid firing is a wake-up call that you weren't paying attention to the po2 and let it fall to the unit's setpoint.
(Offline)

28th August 2007, 22:28	#8 (permalink)
Depth-junkie 10/52 Psycho Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Wrexham Posts: 298	Re: Flying your unit manually . Quote: (Originally Posted by KevDD) Hi Batman, It should be covered in your course as it is a very important skill. It is done if a solenoid was locked closed then a way of staying on your loop would be to inject the oxygen manually via the manual add button. Yes it's a very hard skill to master, you push a button give a few good breaths to work the 02 through the loop. Watch the no.s rise, 02 still a bit low push the button again and repeat the process I honestly cant see why anyone with a ECCR would run it manual all the time, once in a while for a few mins to make sure you can still do this very hard important skill The Kiss boys it is obviously a different ball game as they have no choice, but for ECCR Why????? Its like pushing your car up the road yourself, rather than letting the engine do its thing. ATB Gareth
(Offline)

28th August 2007, 22:52	#9 (permalink)
PCDiver Submerge Productions Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,003	Re: Flying your unit manually . Quote: (Originally Posted by Depth-junkie) I honestly cant see why anyone with a ECCR would run it manual all the time, once in a while for a few mins to make sure you can still do this very hard important skill The Kiss boys it is obviously a different ball game as they have no choice, but for ECCR Why????? Its like pushing your car up the road yourself, rather than letting the engine do its thing. Exactly my idea as well. Why would you spend the money on a controller if you are not going to use it?
(Offline)

29th August 2007, 00:51	#10 (permalink)
DepthCharge New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: upstate NY Posts: 234	Re: Flying your unit manually . Quote: (Originally Posted by David Pye) Oh, and I forgot to mention, if you're flying the unit manually, the sound of the solenoid firing is a wake-up call that you weren't paying attention to the po2 and let it fall to the unit's setpoint. Unless the solenoid fails to fire....................... __________________ Later, John It's better to beg forgiveness than ask permission
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