Strange but true

Steve · 3rd August 2007, 02:46

Now now baz, don't throw dolly out of the pram just because you are getting a bit of stick. Have you heard the expression 'ye shall reap what ye sows'?

I can explain your issue pretty easily actually as this is a well known issue amongst piezo buttons, touch screens and access card readers.

In short, this type of piezo button works by pressure being applied to a crystal creates a dab of electrickery to tell the controller what to do. It isn't working in your chaps case as AP have used a switch that isn't suitable for all people. You get what you pay for in the world of piezo switches. The person in question is providing an interference electric signal to the circuit that is buggering up the one intended to be provided by the piezo.

Lets assume that AP arent going to change to a better switch any time soon there are a few things your unfortunate student can do to help things along.

Things that affect this are;

Moisture level in the persons skin (dry non moisturised skin makes it worse. not just his hands either.)
Wearing Stockings (I suppose some undersuits would be bad as well)
Drinking highly carbonated soft drinks. Acidic skin can make it worse. A simple litmus test will tell you this.
Eating highly acidic food. Dito on the analysis

Things to do to help.

Wear cotton or wool only.
Use his car keys in one hand to ground himself to a decent ground before pressing the button
Change unit

I hope this helps

heyydude · 3rd August 2007, 04:40

Quote: (Originally Posted by Bazza)

....snip

Anyone had the same problem with the HH ???

We had a couple of switches fail, but we caught them early, and made engineering changes to prevent them.

Our switches are built to our own specs, and do not require any "cushion" to allow them to work.

Kevin Juergensen
Juergensen Marine, Inc.

Tino de Rijk · 3rd August 2007, 18:18

Interesting theory, but not a lot of proof, as this is the very first time this issue popped up (either here or in the Inspo mailing list), with quite a lot of Visions in the field now...
Let's assume your theory is right: in that case it should disappear (or rather: work o.k.) while diving the unit, i.e. in water. Or even with the handset submerged in a bucket of water.

Is that the case, Baz..? Did you try?

Ciao,

Tino.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve)

Now now baz, don't throw dolly out of the pram just because you are getting a bit of stick. Have you heard the expression 'ye shall reap what ye sows'?

I can explain your issue pretty easily actually as this is a well known issue amongst piezo buttons, touch screens and access card readers.

In short, this type of piezo button works by pressure being applied to a crystal creates a dab of electrickery to tell the controller what to do. It isn't working in your chaps case as AP have used a switch that isn't suitable for all people. You get what you pay for in the world of piezo switches. The person in question is providing an interference electric signal to the circuit that is buggering up the one intended to be provided by the piezo.

Lets assume that AP arent going to change to a better switch any time soon there are a few things your unfortunate student can do to help things along.

Things that affect this are;

Moisture level in the persons skin (dry non moisturised skin makes it worse. not just his hands either.)
Wearing Stockings (I suppose some undersuits would be bad as well)
Drinking highly carbonated soft drinks. Acidic skin can make it worse. A simple litmus test will tell you this.
Eating highly acidic food. Dito on the analysis

Things to do to help.

Wear cotton or wool only.
Use his car keys in one hand to ground himself to a decent ground before pressing the button
Change unit

I hope this helps

Bazza · 3rd August 2007, 23:26

Tino .... the problem is better in the water but he still has major hassles trying to make the buttons work.

As I said the problem is going away slowly but it has me intrigued as to what is going on.

Once again thanks for your sensible help, I have passed this onto Martin for his views.

regards Baz

Tino de Rijk · 5th August 2007, 20:52

Okeedokee. It persisting in the water kicks the "other electric current generated by user" theory out of the water then IMHO, especially assuming it is salt water (I remember your shop in Sydney right by the water of the bay).
Keep us posted as to Martin's opion: always curious, and never too old to learn...

Ciao,

Tino.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Bazza)

Tino .... the problem is better in the water but he still has major hassles trying to make the buttons work.

As I said the problem is going away slowly but it has me intrigued as to what is going on.

Once again thanks for your sensible help, I have passed this onto Martin for his views.

regards Baz

opimoby · 6th August 2007, 05:18

Hey Baz
I am back in Port Douglas. The problem with control unit seems to have gone away now. The controller works every time although I have yet to start using in the ocean environment. Thanks to all for feed back...most are really helpful.
cheers
Ross

SteveL · 6th August 2007, 12:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by Bazza)

Every time he touches the buttons nothing happens but as soon as I grab the controller and touch the buttons she fires up.

regards Baz

the inverse of the fairer sex hey Baz

.........

opimoby · 26th August 2007, 16:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by Bazza)

Tino .... the problem is better in the water but he still has major hassles trying to make the buttons work.

As I said the problem is going away slowly but it has me intrigued as to what is going on.

Once again thanks for your sensible help, I have passed this onto Martin for his views.

regards Baz

Hi all
I finally got a chance to dive my new Evo on the outer Barrier Reef this week. The problem with the controler buttons on the Vision hand set seems to have gone away. The Evo is a dream to dive and I will be putting it through some wild country soon as I am going out to dive the 3,000 foot verticle walls at Osprey Reef in the Coral Sea. If anyone is interested Undersea Explorer out of Port Douglas runs regular trips to Osprey and are rebreather friendly. They go to some extraordinary locations.
cheers
Ross

teomannaskali · 26th August 2007, 17:55

Piezos work with a pressure difference. So maby he was pressing them hard enough but not fast enough. Or there was some oil or other cushionning substance inside the buttons that got worn out or displaced once the unit was used a bit more. I think that he might just have gotten used to pushing them faster and harder.

Just my thoughts...
Teoman

3rd August 2007, 02:46	#21 (permalink)
Steve Ladies bring a plate Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth - Australia Posts: 1,127	Re: Strange but true Now now baz, don't throw dolly out of the pram just because you are getting a bit of stick. Have you heard the expression 'ye shall reap what ye sows'? I can explain your issue pretty easily actually as this is a well known issue amongst piezo buttons, touch screens and access card readers. In short, this type of piezo button works by pressure being applied to a crystal creates a dab of electrickery to tell the controller what to do. It isn't working in your chaps case as AP have used a switch that isn't suitable for all people. You get what you pay for in the world of piezo switches. The person in question is providing an interference electric signal to the circuit that is buggering up the one intended to be provided by the piezo. Lets assume that AP arent going to change to a better switch any time soon there are a few things your unfortunate student can do to help things along. Things that affect this are; Moisture level in the persons skin (dry non moisturised skin makes it worse. not just his hands either.) Wearing Stockings (I suppose some undersuits would be bad as well) Drinking highly carbonated soft drinks. Acidic skin can make it worse. A simple litmus test will tell you this. Eating highly acidic food. Dito on the analysis Things to do to help. Wear cotton or wool only. Use his car keys in one hand to ground himself to a decent ground before pressing the button Change unit I hope this helps __________________ WARNING: I contain occasional coarse language, extreme sexual references, nudity, and adult themes, which may offend some people - Usually churchy types. Last edited by Steve : 3rd August 2007 at 04:03. Reason: spullink
(Online)

3rd August 2007, 04:40	#22 (permalink)
heyydude King of the Geeks Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Optima Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Addison, Pennsylvania Posts: 380	Re: Strange but true Quote: (Originally Posted by Bazza) ....snip Anyone had the same problem with the HH ??? We had a couple of switches fail, but we caught them early, and made engineering changes to prevent them. Our switches are built to our own specs, and do not require any "cushion" to allow them to work. Kevin Juergensen Juergensen Marine, Inc.
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3rd August 2007, 18:18	#23 (permalink)
Tino de Rijk Old, maybe one day wise Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 375	Re: Strange but true Interesting theory, but not a lot of proof, as this is the very first time this issue popped up (either here or in the Inspo mailing list), with quite a lot of Visions in the field now... Let's assume your theory is right: in that case it should disappear (or rather: work o.k.) while diving the unit, i.e. in water. Or even with the handset submerged in a bucket of water. Is that the case, Baz..? Did you try? Ciao, Tino. Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve) Now now baz, don't throw dolly out of the pram just because you are getting a bit of stick. Have you heard the expression 'ye shall reap what ye sows'? I can explain your issue pretty easily actually as this is a well known issue amongst piezo buttons, touch screens and access card readers. In short, this type of piezo button works by pressure being applied to a crystal creates a dab of electrickery to tell the controller what to do. It isn't working in your chaps case as AP have used a switch that isn't suitable for all people. You get what you pay for in the world of piezo switches. The person in question is providing an interference electric signal to the circuit that is buggering up the one intended to be provided by the piezo. Lets assume that AP arent going to change to a better switch any time soon there are a few things your unfortunate student can do to help things along. Things that affect this are; Moisture level in the persons skin (dry non moisturised skin makes it worse. not just his hands either.) Wearing Stockings (I suppose some undersuits would be bad as well) Drinking highly carbonated soft drinks. Acidic skin can make it worse. A simple litmus test will tell you this. Eating highly acidic food. Dito on the analysis Things to do to help. Wear cotton or wool only. Use his car keys in one hand to ground himself to a decent ground before pressing the button Change unit I hope this helps
(Offline)

3rd August 2007, 23:26	#24 (permalink)
Bazza New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution rEvo Other CCR Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Dolphin Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 174	Re: Strange but true Tino .... the problem is better in the water but he still has major hassles trying to make the buttons work. As I said the problem is going away slowly but it has me intrigued as to what is going on. Once again thanks for your sensible help, I have passed this onto Martin for his views. regards Baz
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5th August 2007, 20:52	#25 (permalink)
Tino de Rijk Old, maybe one day wise Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 375	Re: Strange but true Okeedokee. It persisting in the water kicks the "other electric current generated by user" theory out of the water then IMHO, especially assuming it is salt water (I remember your shop in Sydney right by the water of the bay). Keep us posted as to Martin's opion: always curious, and never too old to learn... Ciao, Tino. Quote: (Originally Posted by Bazza) Tino .... the problem is better in the water but he still has major hassles trying to make the buttons work. As I said the problem is going away slowly but it has me intrigued as to what is going on. Once again thanks for your sensible help, I have passed this onto Martin for his views. regards Baz
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6th August 2007, 05:18	#26 (permalink)
opimoby New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Port Douglas, Australia Posts: 68	Re: Strange but true Hey Baz I am back in Port Douglas. The problem with control unit seems to have gone away now. The controller works every time although I have yet to start using in the ocean environment. Thanks to all for feed back...most are really helpful. cheers Ross
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6th August 2007, 12:22	#27 (permalink)
SteveL RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 224	Re: Strange but true Quote: (Originally Posted by Bazza) Every time he touches the buttons nothing happens but as soon as I grab the controller and touch the buttons she fires up. regards Baz the inverse of the fairer sex hey Baz .........
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26th August 2007, 16:18	#28 (permalink)
opimoby New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Port Douglas, Australia Posts: 68	Re: Strange but true Quote: (Originally Posted by Bazza) Tino .... the problem is better in the water but he still has major hassles trying to make the buttons work. As I said the problem is going away slowly but it has me intrigued as to what is going on. Once again thanks for your sensible help, I have passed this onto Martin for his views. regards Baz Hi all I finally got a chance to dive my new Evo on the outer Barrier Reef this week. The problem with the controler buttons on the Vision hand set seems to have gone away. The Evo is a dream to dive and I will be putting it through some wild country soon as I am going out to dive the 3,000 foot verticle walls at Osprey Reef in the Coral Sea. If anyone is interested Undersea Explorer out of Port Douglas runs regular trips to Osprey and are rebreather friendly. They go to some extraordinary locations. cheers Ross
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26th August 2007, 17:55	#29 (permalink)
teomannaskali RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Home Build Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Istanbul TR Posts: 421	Re: Strange but true Piezos work with a pressure difference. So maby he was pressing them hard enough but not fast enough. Or there was some oil or other cushionning substance inside the buttons that got worn out or displaced once the unit was used a bit more. I think that he might just have gotten used to pushing them faster and harder. Just my thoughts... Teoman
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