ADV freeflow

naeco · 5th July 2007, 17:25

My boss was diving a vision inspiration and engaged the ADV at about 10ft. The ADV engaged and stuck open... He shut down the dil valve to stop it. He opened the dil valve at the surface and the ADV did not free flow. Then he breathed on the loop to get the ADV to engage - and it began to freeflow again. 1st stage intermediate pressure is within spec, and there does not appear to be any debris present. Now that we have the unit out of the water, we cannot get the ADV to freeflow... The lever arm does seem to be a bit "loose" - to have more play in it than the lever arm on our other unit's ADV. Any thoughts???

what2be · 27th July 2007, 03:06

Quote: (Originally Posted by naeco)

My boss was diving a vision inspiration and engaged the ADV at about 10ft. The ADV engaged and stuck open... He shut down the dil valve to stop it. He opened the dil valve at the surface and the ADV did not free flow. Then he breathed on the loop to get the ADV to engage - and it began to freeflow again. 1st stage intermediate pressure is within spec, and there does not appear to be any debris present. Now that we have the unit out of the water, we cannot get the ADV to freeflow... The lever arm does seem to be a bit "loose" - to have more play in it than the lever arm on our other unit's ADV. Any thoughts???

Mine did this on my last trip to turks & caicos. Only it was a slow leak. I couldnt figure out why my loop kept filling up and becoming positive. Finally I shut off the dil and went the rest of the dive without the loop filling up. I took apart the LP line going to the ADV and saw some debris on the screen. I cleaned it out and put it together, manually activated the ADV and then went diving again and all was well. After that, I installed a flow stop on the ADV in case this happens again. I am curious, did you try to activate the adv manually to see if you could blow it out? Then maybe go back in the water and try it again. Im sure by now you had it serviced, but something to think about in the future.

Tino de Rijk · 29th July 2007, 11:53

Scan this forum for "ADV" and "leaks" because there have already been many discussions on the causes & solutions of the leaks, and it would be a waste to repeat them all again...

The most likely candidate for the slow (air) leaks is the sealing O-ring deep inside that acts as valveseat. It has a hard life, and only needs a tiny bit of dirt or chalk (due to e.g. rinsing) to cause a small leak. It should be replaced yearly.
It is easy to replace - if you have the right tools. You need two special tools, and the maintenance manual. This can all be bought from APD or SDS, together with the sparepart kit (all O-rings). It's not very expensive.
Make sure you get the right O-rings, i.e. not just the same size, but also the correct material and stiffness (degrees Shore). APD uses varies grades of stiffness, bepending on the role of the O-ring. This particular O-ring is quite stiff as is acts as valveseat (90 degrees Shore, while 60 or 70 is used for most "rotating" rings). So best to get them from APD or SDS.

If you don't have experience with servicing: don't. Outsource it. But get it done, because small leaks can turn into big leaks, and why have an ADV it you keep it shut off....?

ciao,

Tino.

Quote: (Originally Posted by what2be)

Mine did this on my last trip to turks & caicos. Only it was a slow leak. I couldnt figure out why my loop kept filling up and becoming positive. Finally I shut off the dil and went the rest of the dive without the loop filling up. I took apart the LP line going to the ADV and saw some debris on the screen. I cleaned it out and put it together, manually activated the ADV and then went diving again and all was well. After that, I installed a flow stop on the ADV in case this happens again. I am curious, did you try to activate the adv manually to see if you could blow it out? Then maybe go back in the water and try it again. Im sure by now you had it serviced, but something to think about in the future.

**Gill Envy** · 29th July 2007, 18:45

listen to tino, he's very knowledgable about these things.

If it's a slow leak to the inside of the counter lung then it's probably one of the three "O" inside the banjo fitting, just replace it... Tino has put together a great manual on the ADV that you can get from him or AP. If it's actually the regulator, the fix will be more involved.

good luck

devilgas · 29th July 2007, 20:14

Quote: (Originally Posted by naeco)

My boss was diving a vision inspiration and engaged the ADV at about 10ft. The ADV engaged and stuck open... He shut down the dil valve to stop it. He opened the dil valve at the surface and the ADV did not free flow. Then he breathed on the loop to get the ADV to engage - and it began to freeflow again. 1st stage intermediate pressure is within spec, and there does not appear to be any debris present. Now that we have the unit out of the water, we cannot get the ADV to freeflow... The lever arm does seem to be a bit "loose" - to have more play in it than the lever arm on our other unit's ADV. Any thoughts???

Installing a flow stop inline just before the ADV feed connection will prevent this from becoming as issue during the dive. This is much easier than shutting down the Diluent tank valve.

BGC · 29th July 2007, 21:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino de Rijk)

Scan this forum for "ADV" and "leaks" because there have already been many discussions on the causes & solutions of the leaks, and it would be a waste to repeat them all again...

The most likely candidate for the slow (air) leaks is the sealing O-ring deep inside that acts as valveseat. It has a hard life, and only needs a tiny bit of dirt or chalk (due to e.g. rinsing) to cause a small leak. It should be replaced yearly.
It is easy to replace - if you have the right tools. You need two special tools, and the maintenance manual. This can all be bought from APD or SDS, together with the sparepart kit (all O-rings). It's not very expensive.
Make sure you get the right O-rings, i.e. not just the same size, but also the correct material and stiffness (degrees Shore). APD uses varies grades of stiffness, bepending on the role of the O-ring. This particular O-ring is quite stiff as is acts as valveseat (90 degrees Shore, while 60 or 70 is used for most "rotating" rings). So best to get them from APD or SDS.

If you don't have experience with servicing: don't. Outsource it. But get it done, because small leaks can turn into big leaks, and why have an ADV it you keep it shut off....?

ciao,

Tino.

Hello,

Since 2006 june, the APD ADV has been modified and apparently a new o-ring has been added. Why?

thks

Bernard

Eoin · 30th July 2007, 10:15

I had a leak in my ADV last month and it turned out to be the O ring not seating properly. I sent the ADV back to AP and they serviced it for me (about £30), I also bought a flowstop, very handy!

naeco · 30th July 2007, 15:22

Thanks for the advice everyone! Tino, how can I go about getting your ADV manual?

**Gill Envy** · 30th July 2007, 16:24

oh, and one more thing, taking the hoses off the ADV "T" piece and submergine the ADV under water while pressureized can help you see inside if the leak is comming from the regulator end of the ADV or the banjo fitting end of the ADV.

replacing the three "O" rings inside the banjo fitting solved the problem for me. I've seen two kinds of leaks from these "O" rings, one from the outermost "O" ring not seating upon pressurizing, leaking profusely to the ouside and the other type I've seen came from the middle "O" ring, causing a slow leak through the housing to the inside of the loop (po2 kept dropping precipetiously). It seams that they get flattened and don't seat properly after a while...they are in a high wear area.

If you are a registered owner, AP will email the manual to you FOC... Drop Nicky a line, she's very helpful.

g

Tino de Rijk · 31st July 2007, 16:22

Okeedokee, took a few days, but checked back with "the powers that be" at APD.
They indeed added an extra O-ring during 2006, sitting in the T-piece house, sealing against the banjo (the metal rotating part where the MP hose comes in). Its size is BS109N70. (BS109 = "Britsh Standard" size; N70 = hardness: 70 degrees Shore).

The reason is that this allows them a slightly easier way of producing the T-piece (the black "plastic" body), as it eliminates an extra machining round in the factory.
It has nothing to do with solving a leak-problem or something; most leaks are caused by other parts anyway: either the small O-rings inside the banjo (2 x BS012N70), or the O-ring acting as valveseat (BS006N90), or chalk/salt buildup on the tilt axle or tilt boss due to rinsing with "hard" water.

Over time APD is even contemplating leaving the big-ish O-ring on the outside of the banjo out (the BS014N70 one), as its role has effectively been taken over by the new extra O-ring. But it doesn't hurt to leave it in either; they both seal on the same surface.

Hope this helps. The recent version of the manual has updated to reflect this change. I can't supply the manual, but APD or SDS will on request.

Ciao,

Tino.

Quote: (Originally Posted by BGC)

Hello,

Since 2006 june, the APD ADV has been modified and apparently a new o-ring has been added. Why?

thks

Bernard

5th July 2007, 17:25	#1 (permalink)
naeco New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Washington North Carolina Posts: 2	ADV freeflow My boss was diving a vision inspiration and engaged the ADV at about 10ft. The ADV engaged and stuck open... He shut down the dil valve to stop it. He opened the dil valve at the surface and the ADV did not free flow. Then he breathed on the loop to get the ADV to engage - and it began to freeflow again. 1st stage intermediate pressure is within spec, and there does not appear to be any debris present. Now that we have the unit out of the water, we cannot get the ADV to freeflow... The lever arm does seem to be a bit "loose" - to have more play in it than the lever arm on our other unit's ADV. Any thoughts???
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27th July 2007, 03:06	#2 (permalink)
what2be New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Eureka, Ca Posts: 94	Re: ADV freeflow Quote: (Originally Posted by naeco) My boss was diving a vision inspiration and engaged the ADV at about 10ft. The ADV engaged and stuck open... He shut down the dil valve to stop it. He opened the dil valve at the surface and the ADV did not free flow. Then he breathed on the loop to get the ADV to engage - and it began to freeflow again. 1st stage intermediate pressure is within spec, and there does not appear to be any debris present. Now that we have the unit out of the water, we cannot get the ADV to freeflow... The lever arm does seem to be a bit "loose" - to have more play in it than the lever arm on our other unit's ADV. Any thoughts??? Mine did this on my last trip to turks & caicos. Only it was a slow leak. I couldnt figure out why my loop kept filling up and becoming positive. Finally I shut off the dil and went the rest of the dive without the loop filling up. I took apart the LP line going to the ADV and saw some debris on the screen. I cleaned it out and put it together, manually activated the ADV and then went diving again and all was well. After that, I installed a flow stop on the ADV in case this happens again. I am curious, did you try to activate the adv manually to see if you could blow it out? Then maybe go back in the water and try it again. Im sure by now you had it serviced, but something to think about in the future. __________________ "If I die with any money at all in my bank account I know I miscalculated"
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29th July 2007, 11:53	#3 (permalink)
Tino de Rijk Old, maybe one day wise Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 375	Re: ADV freeflow Scan this forum for "ADV" and "leaks" because there have already been many discussions on the causes & solutions of the leaks, and it would be a waste to repeat them all again... The most likely candidate for the slow (air) leaks is the sealing O-ring deep inside that acts as valveseat. It has a hard life, and only needs a tiny bit of dirt or chalk (due to e.g. rinsing) to cause a small leak. It should be replaced yearly. It is easy to replace - if you have the right tools. You need two special tools, and the maintenance manual. This can all be bought from APD or SDS, together with the sparepart kit (all O-rings). It's not very expensive. Make sure you get the right O-rings, i.e. not just the same size, but also the correct material and stiffness (degrees Shore). APD uses varies grades of stiffness, bepending on the role of the O-ring. This particular O-ring is quite stiff as is acts as valveseat (90 degrees Shore, while 60 or 70 is used for most "rotating" rings). So best to get them from APD or SDS. If you don't have experience with servicing: don't. Outsource it. But get it done, because small leaks can turn into big leaks, and why have an ADV it you keep it shut off....? ciao, Tino. Quote: (Originally Posted by what2be) Mine did this on my last trip to turks & caicos. Only it was a slow leak. I couldnt figure out why my loop kept filling up and becoming positive. Finally I shut off the dil and went the rest of the dive without the loop filling up. I took apart the LP line going to the ADV and saw some debris on the screen. I cleaned it out and put it together, manually activated the ADV and then went diving again and all was well. After that, I installed a flow stop on the ADV in case this happens again. I am curious, did you try to activate the adv manually to see if you could blow it out? Then maybe go back in the water and try it again. Im sure by now you had it serviced, but something to think about in the future.
(Offline)

29th July 2007, 18:45	#4 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Divers Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,348	Re: ADV freeflow listen to tino, he's very knowledgable about these things. If it's a slow leak to the inside of the counter lung then it's probably one of the three "O" inside the banjo fitting, just replace it... Tino has put together a great manual on the ADV that you can get from him or AP. If it's actually the regulator, the fix will be more involved. good luck __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>
(Online)

29th July 2007, 20:14	#5 (permalink)
devilgas CCR Instructor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Optima Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: FL, USA Posts: 201	Re: ADV freeflow Quote: (Originally Posted by naeco) My boss was diving a vision inspiration and engaged the ADV at about 10ft. The ADV engaged and stuck open... He shut down the dil valve to stop it. He opened the dil valve at the surface and the ADV did not free flow. Then he breathed on the loop to get the ADV to engage - and it began to freeflow again. 1st stage intermediate pressure is within spec, and there does not appear to be any debris present. Now that we have the unit out of the water, we cannot get the ADV to freeflow... The lever arm does seem to be a bit "loose" - to have more play in it than the lever arm on our other unit's ADV. Any thoughts??? Installing a flow stop inline just before the ADV feed connection will prevent this from becoming as issue during the dive. This is much easier than shutting down the Diluent tank valve. __________________ Inspiration / Evolution, O2ptima Instructor
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29th July 2007, 21:47	#6 (permalink)
BGC RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mouans-Sartoux, FRANCE Posts: 19	Re: ADV freeflow Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino de Rijk) Scan this forum for "ADV" and "leaks" because there have already been many discussions on the causes & solutions of the leaks, and it would be a waste to repeat them all again... The most likely candidate for the slow (air) leaks is the sealing O-ring deep inside that acts as valveseat. It has a hard life, and only needs a tiny bit of dirt or chalk (due to e.g. rinsing) to cause a small leak. It should be replaced yearly. It is easy to replace - if you have the right tools. You need two special tools, and the maintenance manual. This can all be bought from APD or SDS, together with the sparepart kit (all O-rings). It's not very expensive. Make sure you get the right O-rings, i.e. not just the same size, but also the correct material and stiffness (degrees Shore). APD uses varies grades of stiffness, bepending on the role of the O-ring. This particular O-ring is quite stiff as is acts as valveseat (90 degrees Shore, while 60 or 70 is used for most "rotating" rings). So best to get them from APD or SDS. If you don't have experience with servicing: don't. Outsource it. But get it done, because small leaks can turn into big leaks, and why have an ADV it you keep it shut off....? ciao, Tino. Hello, Since 2006 june, the APD ADV has been modified and apparently a new o-ring has been added. Why? thks Bernard
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30th July 2007, 10:15	#7 (permalink)
Eoin New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ireland Posts: 57	Re: ADV freeflow I had a leak in my ADV last month and it turned out to be the O ring not seating properly. I sent the ADV back to AP and they serviced it for me (about £30), I also bought a flowstop, very handy! __________________ Ta, Eoin ~~~~~~~~~ www.scuba.ie www.technicaldiving.ie
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30th July 2007, 15:22	#8 (permalink)
naeco New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Washington North Carolina Posts: 2	Re: ADV freeflow Thanks for the advice everyone! Tino, how can I go about getting your ADV manual?
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30th July 2007, 16:24	#9 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Divers Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,348	Re: ADV freeflow oh, and one more thing, taking the hoses off the ADV "T" piece and submergine the ADV under water while pressureized can help you see inside if the leak is comming from the regulator end of the ADV or the banjo fitting end of the ADV. replacing the three "O" rings inside the banjo fitting solved the problem for me. I've seen two kinds of leaks from these "O" rings, one from the outermost "O" ring not seating upon pressurizing, leaking profusely to the ouside and the other type I've seen came from the middle "O" ring, causing a slow leak through the housing to the inside of the loop (po2 kept dropping precipetiously). It seams that they get flattened and don't seat properly after a while...they are in a high wear area. If you are a registered owner, AP will email the manual to you FOC... Drop Nicky a line, she's very helpful. g __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°> Last edited by Gill Envy : 30th July 2007 at 16:26.
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31st July 2007, 16:22	#10 (permalink)
Tino de Rijk Old, maybe one day wise Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 375	Re: ADV freeflow Okeedokee, took a few days, but checked back with "the powers that be" at APD. They indeed added an extra O-ring during 2006, sitting in the T-piece house, sealing against the banjo (the metal rotating part where the MP hose comes in). Its size is BS109N70. (BS109 = "Britsh Standard" size; N70 = hardness: 70 degrees Shore). The reason is that this allows them a slightly easier way of producing the T-piece (the black "plastic" body), as it eliminates an extra machining round in the factory. It has nothing to do with solving a leak-problem or something; most leaks are caused by other parts anyway: either the small O-rings inside the banjo (2 x BS012N70), or the O-ring acting as valveseat (BS006N90), or chalk/salt buildup on the tilt axle or tilt boss due to rinsing with "hard" water. Over time APD is even contemplating leaving the big-ish O-ring on the outside of the banjo out (the BS014N70 one), as its role has effectively been taken over by the new extra O-ring. But it doesn't hurt to leave it in either; they both seal on the same surface. Hope this helps. The recent version of the manual has updated to reflect this change. I can't supply the manual, but APD or SDS will on request. Ciao, Tino. Quote: (Originally Posted by BGC) Hello, Since 2006 june, the APD ADV has been modified and apparently a new o-ring has been added. Why? thks Bernard
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