Battery Test On Power Up

jptaylor9 · 19th July 2005, 19:44

The manual says that on power up of the handsets, after checking the cells the battery is tested for charge (voltage), please not I'm not an engineer so please treat me gently

If memory serves me well, you get a BATTERY WARNING at 5.1v which gives you option to continue dive & presents Yes/No option. You choose based on planned dive profile, personal risk acceptance ect. At 4.7v it says LOW BATTERY & the NO DIVE as you have to change battery.

I've had several occasions when no warning was given on power up, but had low battery on the dive? This happened last dive; if I start up the right hand controller now, one that gave warning on the dive (water temp. 14c), it now says battery OK, no warning!!!

My question is: Is the battery test on power up of any use???

From my experience it doesn't give sufficient warning.

As an aside, I forced failover by powering down RN controller, checked LH had become master & then powered up RH control to use as ppO2 monitor. As an alternative, I could have gone to low set point & run set point manually above controller set point to take load off battery.

PS. I'm using Energizer batteries purchased from 7DayShop.com

decoweenie · 19th July 2005, 20:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by jptaylor9)

My question is: Is the battery test on power up of any use?

Personally, I am having my doubt. Long story...

I am trying to pin-point a little problem that happened last week-end with my own unit...

I bought the used unit in May but didn't dive it until last week-end since I have been diving the Sport-KISS. As I wanted to test the new travel frame, I dug the unit out to dive it.

The unit calibrated fine, kept the low SP fine and display no battery warning/error. However, as soon as I descended to 3m, the solenoid will not fire forcing me to do 2 x 1-hour class training dives in manual-PO2 mode.

So I got some new batteries that evening, and the only brand available readily was Radio Shack CRP2. They measured 6.5 volt out of the box.

Again, unit calibrated fine and kept low SP fine on surface. Then same problem u/w forcing another 2 x 1-hour dives in manual-PO2 mode.

By this time, I am a little irked so sat down and spent some time testing more structurally:

Tried unsuccessfully to use the 2-hour old batteries to activate the solenoid with O2 pressure on.
Depressurized O2, batteries were able to activate solenoid.
Took out the 2-hour old batteries, measured w/o load to be 5.8 volt.
Another 2 new Radio Shack CRP2 batteries, measured w/o load to be 6.5 volt.
IP of O2 first stage verified at 7 bar with tank pressure at 80 bar
Calibrated fine
Kept low SP fine for 2-3 mins
Took these new batteries out of the unit, measured w/o load to be 5.9 volt.

Now, I still don't know if the problem is with the batteries or something in the controllers draining a lot of power in just a few minutes ?

But the controllers definitely didn't catch the capacity issue with these batteries independent of the problem.

Martin Parker just told to test the batteries under load (20 Ohms, 2 watt) to see the true voltage -- which I will do later to isolate the problem.

decoweenie · 19th July 2005, 21:10

Martin posted in December-2004 that if you do the battery rotation (slave battery to master, new battery to slave) it is expected to last ~17 hours. It might be sooner depending on backlight usage and battery make. It can be as soon as 12 hours.

IFAIK, 5.53 volt not under load is quite low.

***jradomski*** · 19th July 2005, 21:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Personally, I am having my doubt. Long story...

I am trying to pin-point a little problem that happened last week-end with my own unit...

I bought the used unit in May but didn't dive it until last week-end since I have been diving the Sport-KISS. As I wanted to test the new travel frame, I dug the unit out to dive it.

The unit calibrated fine, kept the low SP fine and display no battery warning/error. However, as soon as I descended to 3m, the solenoid will not fire forcing me to do 2 x 1-hour class training dives in manual-PO2 mode.

So I got some new batteries that evening, and the only brand available readily was Radio Shack CRP2. They measured 6.5 volt out of the box.

Again, unit calibrated fine and kept low SP fine on surface. Then same problem u/w forcing another 2 x 1-hour dives in manual-PO2 mode.

By this time, I am a little irked so sat down and spent some time testing more structurally:

Tried unsuccessfully to use the 2-hour old batteries to activate the solenoid with O2 pressure on.
Depressurized O2, batteries were able to activate solenoid.
Took out the 2-hour old batteries, measured w/o load to be 5.8 volt.
Another 2 new Radio Shack CRP2 batteries, measured w/o load to be 6.5 volt.
IP of O2 first stage verified at 7 bar with tank pressure at 80 bar
Calibrated fine
Kept low SP fine for 2-3 mins
Took these new batteries out of the unit, measured w/o load to be 5.9 volt.

Now, I still don't know if the problem is with the batteries or something in the controllers draining a lot of power in just a few minutes ?

But the controllers definitely didn't catch the capacity issue with these batteries independent of the problem.

Martin Parker just told to test the batteries under load (20 Ohms, 2 watt) to see the true voltage -- which I will do later to isolate the problem.

I have used radios hack brand cells many times (if they are RS branded they usually are energizers)..

The battery test on powerup is more accurate if you hvae the o2 cylinder opened before powering up the controller, with the oxygen valve being opened there is very little current required to operate the solenoid..

I would wonder how old the batteries are.. in general RS date codes all their cells.. if you get a good voltage with a 20ohm load the batteries definately are supplying some current... thats 300ma!!

I would definately would like to know the current draw your unit is producying at steady state and when operating the solenoid.. its pretty easy to make up a dummy battery to go though a meter...

pchanning · 20th July 2005, 13:29

Word is over here that if the batteries aren't lasting send the leccies back for a service. (about £35-40 for a check out + whatever needs replacing) A few people here are of that opinion/ had that experience.

I've suffered the same problem and typically at the bottom/ furthest part of the dive where a handset went down, the other went down on the shore when I surfaced not minutes afterward. No pre-warnings, nothing.

I'm yet to send it back (soon) but I change the batteries every 10-12 hours. Still, I cant complain, having just started gas diving the savings are already apparant.

Padowan · 20th July 2005, 13:48

I made a little set of flying leads that I can insert between the battery and the contacts. I can then test the voltage of the battery under no load, solenoid firing, and with the backlights on. In the past, when I have had battery alarms, is has been when the solenoid is firing AND I have had the backlight on, giving the highest load. In these occasions I just switch to the slave, but I could stop it alarming by just not turning the back light on...

Obviously, this is only a technique I can apply with the head off, the leads get removed for diving!

I've been using Panasonic and Energizer batteries from 7-day shop for quite a while now, without any unwarranted failures.

ROB DAVIE · 20th July 2005, 14:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

"I have used radioshack bran cells many times..."

Gee whiz, Joe, I am sure the roughage is great for your innards, but aren't they a little hard on your teeth??

***jradomski*** · 20th July 2005, 15:02

Quote: (Originally Posted by ROB DAVIE)

Gee whiz, Joe, I am sure the roughage is great for your innards, but aren't they a little hard on your teeth??

Yes they are

19th July 2005, 19:44	#1 (permalink)
jptaylor9 RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 316	Battery Test On Power Up The manual says that on power up of the handsets, after checking the cells the battery is tested for charge (voltage), please not I'm not an engineer so please treat me gently If memory serves me well, you get a BATTERY WARNING at 5.1v which gives you option to continue dive & presents Yes/No option. You choose based on planned dive profile, personal risk acceptance ect. At 4.7v it says LOW BATTERY & the NO DIVE as you have to change battery. I've had several occasions when no warning was given on power up, but had low battery on the dive? This happened last dive; if I start up the right hand controller now, one that gave warning on the dive (water temp. 14c), it now says battery OK, no warning!!! My question is: Is the battery test on power up of any use??? From my experience it doesn't give sufficient warning. As an aside, I forced failover by powering down RN controller, checked LH had become master & then powered up RH control to use as ppO2 monitor. As an alternative, I could have gone to low set point & run set point manually above controller set point to take load off battery. PS. I'm using Energizer batteries purchased from 7DayShop.com
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19th July 2005, 20:29	#2 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Quote: (Originally Posted by jptaylor9) My question is: Is the battery test on power up of any use? Personally, I am having my doubt. Long story... I am trying to pin-point a little problem that happened last week-end with my own unit... I bought the used unit in May but didn't dive it until last week-end since I have been diving the Sport-KISS. As I wanted to test the new travel frame, I dug the unit out to dive it. The unit calibrated fine, kept the low SP fine and display no battery warning/error. However, as soon as I descended to 3m, the solenoid will not fire forcing me to do 2 x 1-hour class training dives in manual-PO2 mode. So I got some new batteries that evening, and the only brand available readily was Radio Shack CRP2. They measured 6.5 volt out of the box. Again, unit calibrated fine and kept low SP fine on surface. Then same problem u/w forcing another 2 x 1-hour dives in manual-PO2 mode. By this time, I am a little irked so sat down and spent some time testing more structurally: Tried unsuccessfully to use the 2-hour old batteries to activate the solenoid with O2 pressure on. Depressurized O2, batteries were able to activate solenoid. Took out the 2-hour old batteries, measured w/o load to be 5.8 volt. Another 2 new Radio Shack CRP2 batteries, measured w/o load to be 6.5 volt. IP of O2 first stage verified at 7 bar with tank pressure at 80 bar Calibrated fine Kept low SP fine for 2-3 mins Took these new batteries out of the unit, measured w/o load to be 5.9 volt. Now, I still don't know if the problem is with the batteries or something in the controllers draining a lot of power in just a few minutes ? But the controllers definitely didn't catch the capacity issue with these batteries independent of the problem. Martin Parker just told to test the batteries under load (20 Ohms, 2 watt) to see the true voltage -- which I will do later to isolate the problem.
(Offline)

19th July 2005, 21:10	#3 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Martin posted in December-2004 that if you do the battery rotation (slave battery to master, new battery to slave) it is expected to last ~17 hours. It might be sooner depending on backlight usage and battery make. It can be as soon as 12 hours. IFAIK, 5.53 volt not under load is quite low.
(Offline)

19th July 2005, 21:39	#4 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,115	Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Personally, I am having my doubt. Long story... I am trying to pin-point a little problem that happened last week-end with my own unit... I bought the used unit in May but didn't dive it until last week-end since I have been diving the Sport-KISS. As I wanted to test the new travel frame, I dug the unit out to dive it. The unit calibrated fine, kept the low SP fine and display no battery warning/error. However, as soon as I descended to 3m, the solenoid will not fire forcing me to do 2 x 1-hour class training dives in manual-PO2 mode. So I got some new batteries that evening, and the only brand available readily was Radio Shack CRP2. They measured 6.5 volt out of the box. Again, unit calibrated fine and kept low SP fine on surface. Then same problem u/w forcing another 2 x 1-hour dives in manual-PO2 mode. By this time, I am a little irked so sat down and spent some time testing more structurally: Tried unsuccessfully to use the 2-hour old batteries to activate the solenoid with O2 pressure on. Depressurized O2, batteries were able to activate solenoid. Took out the 2-hour old batteries, measured w/o load to be 5.8 volt. Another 2 new Radio Shack CRP2 batteries, measured w/o load to be 6.5 volt. IP of O2 first stage verified at 7 bar with tank pressure at 80 bar Calibrated fine Kept low SP fine for 2-3 mins Took these new batteries out of the unit, measured w/o load to be 5.9 volt. Now, I still don't know if the problem is with the batteries or something in the controllers draining a lot of power in just a few minutes ? But the controllers definitely didn't catch the capacity issue with these batteries independent of the problem. Martin Parker just told to test the batteries under load (20 Ohms, 2 watt) to see the true voltage -- which I will do later to isolate the problem. I have used radios hack brand cells many times (if they are RS branded they usually are energizers).. The battery test on powerup is more accurate if you hvae the o2 cylinder opened before powering up the controller, with the oxygen valve being opened there is very little current required to operate the solenoid.. I would wonder how old the batteries are.. in general RS date codes all their cells.. if you get a good voltage with a 20ohm load the batteries definately are supplying some current... thats 300ma!! I would definately would like to know the current draw your unit is producying at steady state and when operating the solenoid.. its pretty easy to make up a dummy battery to go though a meter... __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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20th July 2005, 13:29	#5 (permalink)
pchanning PFO free :) Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: fixed! Posts: 454	Word is over here that if the batteries aren't lasting send the leccies back for a service. (about £35-40 for a check out + whatever needs replacing) A few people here are of that opinion/ had that experience. I've suffered the same problem and typically at the bottom/ furthest part of the dive where a handset went down, the other went down on the shore when I surfaced not minutes afterward. No pre-warnings, nothing. I'm yet to send it back (soon) but I change the batteries every 10-12 hours. Still, I cant complain, having just started gas diving the savings are already apparant.
(Offline)

20th July 2005, 13:48	#6 (permalink)
Padowan RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Exeter, UK. Posts: 526	I made a little set of flying leads that I can insert between the battery and the contacts. I can then test the voltage of the battery under no load, solenoid firing, and with the backlights on. In the past, when I have had battery alarms, is has been when the solenoid is firing AND I have had the backlight on, giving the highest load. In these occasions I just switch to the slave, but I could stop it alarming by just not turning the back light on... Obviously, this is only a technique I can apply with the head off, the leads get removed for diving! I've been using Panasonic and Energizer batteries from 7-day shop for quite a while now, without any unwarranted failures. __________________ Padowan The future's bright, the future's Yellow .....for now padowan.net - Latest Video: Scapa Flow Rebreather Diving
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20th July 2005, 14:38	#7 (permalink)
ROB DAVIE Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: HOUSTON, REPUBLIC OF TEJAS Posts: 1,120	Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) "I have used radioshack bran cells many times..." Gee whiz, Joe, I am sure the roughage is great for your innards, but aren't they a little hard on your teeth?? __________________ "CC Rebreathers will become a viable part of tech diving WHEN PIGS FLY!!"--GI3
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20th July 2005, 15:02	#8 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,115	Quote: (Originally Posted by ROB DAVIE) Gee whiz, Joe, I am sure the roughage is great for your innards, but aren't they a little hard on your teeth?? Yes they are __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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