Possible quick fix for a Leaky ADV

**Gill Envy** · 23rd February 2007, 02:18

I've been a little frustrated as some of you know, about the tendency of my and my wife's ADV to leak. As tino directed me to do, I asked AP for the manual to service the ADV and have been looking it over, poised to order the tools and jump in...I've been a little reluctant and have been putting it off because it's a bit more of a complex endeovre than i've taken on before.

In any case the recurrence of leaks has been a real drain on our confidence in our units but I learned a valuable solution today that could resolve many of the ADV woes out there that I wanted to pass on just in case others were making the same oversight as me.

Today I was doing the usual preparations for diving and decided to soak the ADV in filtered water to see if I could desolve any plaque to get it to stop leaking, per one of tino's suggestions.

I removed the loop hoses and placed the unit face down with a small bowl of water under the ADV. I slowly turned othe dilluent and could see where the leak was comming from now that it was under water and with the loop hoses off. Normally I could just hear it coming from the inside but couldn't see it...It was not comming from the regulator as I had thought but rather the banjo fitting end, where it came through the housing, leaking to the inside of the loop. I took the banjo fitting apart and took a much harder study of it's design, as I couldn't really get my head around how it was possible for it to leak to the inside of the loop when the banjo fitting is on the outside. This time I realized that there were three "O" rings to consider, not the obvious one, that I have focussed on in cleaning in the past, the one the that has trouble seating on occasion when first turning on the dilluent and free flowes to the outside of the loop. So, I did a more thorough cleaning, both inside the tube and the complete stem.

I fully cleaned the stem, removing all plaque and used a dowell wrapped in paper with some lube on it to more forcibly clean and lube the inside of the fitting...there was some build up of plaque visible. Then I put it back together and violla, no more leaking. Then I applied the same technique to our other unit which also had a small internal leak and it also solved the problem...for now.

I feel a bit like a tool for not getting this earlier and just thought I'd pass this experience along hoping to save others some frustration. It woud be such a shame for folks to send their units in or go through the trouble of getting the tools to service the regulator if this is actually the more common cause of a leaky ADV. Rulling out the banjo fitting as the source of the leak before you go throught the trouble of sending in your unit or sevicing the regulator could save you some time and hastle.
hope that helps,
__________________

Tino de Rijk · 24th February 2007, 07:21

See....? "If All Fails, RTFM (read the f... manual)".
I would though really recommend replacing the three O-rings - and especially the 2 inside. Do it every time you service or inspect it, e.g. once a year or so. Costs: a few cents for O-rings.
APD is cheap in their spare parts. They will also supply you with the proper sizing & hardness, if you want to get them from your local O-ring supplier.
For those interested in self-sourcing:
- the 2 internal O-rings in the banjo are of type & size BS012N70,
- the external one on the banjo is type & size BS014N70.
Your O-ring supplier should know what size this is with this info.

Just cleaning the channel & relubricating it will not tell you if the O-rings may in fact haver some damage. Greasing might disguise that for a while, but the costs do not outweight the potential sorrow.

These particular O-rings have a hard life, exposed to the environment and rotating all the time.
It may look hard to replace them, but it really is not. You have the manual, so you can see how to do it.
A tip: remove the old ones, and then use them as "crash test dummies", trying to get them back in again in a proper way. Make sure you do not use a too sharp device to remove them, as you might damage the holding groove. I use a deliberately made blunt dentist pick, but a wooden toothpick will do fine as well. Test if you did a good job by seeing if it still seals under pressure & under rotation after replacement.
Once you have done that a few times, finally replace them with new ones with your newly mastered skills.
I always try my new tricks on old, to-be-thrown-away stuff.

ciao,

Tino.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy)

I fully cleaned the stem, removing all plaque and used a dowell wrapped in paper with some lube on it to more forcibly clean and lube the inside of the fitting...there was some build up visible. Then I put it back together and violla, no more leaking. Then I applied the same technique to our other unit which also had a small internal leak and it also solved the problem...for now.

**Gill Envy** · 25th February 2007, 18:38

Once again Tino, you've been helpful and I will RTFM... I think i'm do for a replacement of those "O" rings as even after my latest cleaning, there was an internal leak. I wouldn't be so apt to complain about it if it weren't for the fact that this problem started just a few months after buying the evolution. The ADV seems to be the main thing that still has some "evolving" to do. I'm very much looking forward to the BOV that will replace it, hopefully it will not have the swivel and will have fewer "O" rings to cause greef.

I have a dental tool for just such occasions and yes was a bit leeary of damaging the channels...i'll see if a tooth pick will suffice.

Anyway, thanks for the extra tips!

g

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino de Rijk)

See....? "If All Fails, RTFM (read the f... manual)".
I would though really recommend replacing the three O-rings - and especially the 2 inside. Do it every time you service or inspect it, e.g. once a year or so. Costs: a few cents for O-rings.
APD is cheap in their spare parts. They will also supply you with the proper sizing & hardness, if you want to get them from your local O-ring supplier.
For those interested in self-sourcing:
- the 2 internal O-rings in the banjo are of type & size BS012N70,
- the external one on the banjo is type & size BS014N70.
Your O-ring supplier should know what size this is with this info.

Just cleaning the channel & relubricating it will not tell you if the O-rings may in fact haver some damage. Greasing might disguise that for a while, but the costs do not outweight the potential sorrow.

These particular O-rings have a hard life, exposed to the environment and rotating all the time.
It may look hard to replace them, but it really is not. You have the manual, so you can see how to do it.
A tip: remove the old ones, and then use them as "crash test dummies", trying to get them back in again in a proper way. Make sure you do not use a too sharp device to remove them, as you might damage the holding groove. I use a deliberately made blunt dentist pick, but a wooden toothpick will do fine as well. Test if you did a good job by seeing if it still seals under pressure & under rotation after replacement.
Once you have done that a few times, finally replace them with new ones with your newly mastered skills.
I always try my new tricks on old, to-be-thrown-away stuff.

ciao,

Tino.

Tino de Rijk · 28th February 2007, 10:18

Both on my previous Classics and my current (two) Visions, I never had problems with the ADV. But then again I service them twice a year or so, and replace O-rings each year. It's a 10-minute job if you know how to do it, and as discussed before, the ADV can stay in place on the counterlungs while doing it, so why safe on it? Packing a scrubber costs more time (although Martin's new "system" safes a few minutes....).

If I service without replacing O-rings (let's call it an intermediate service :-) ), I still remove the O-rings, clean & relubricate them & place them back. You would be surprised at the amount of salt & chalk (e.g. due to rinsing) that builds up on them....

Ciao,

Tino.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy)

Once again Tino, you've been helpful and I will RTFM... I think i'm do for a replacement of those "O" rings as even after my latest cleaning, there was an internal leak. I wouldn't be so apt to complain about it if it weren't for the fact that this problem started just a few months after buying the evolution. The ADV seems to be the main thing that still has some "evolving" to do. I'm very much looking forward to the BOV that will replace it, hopefully it will not have the swivel and will have fewer "O" rings to cause greef.

I have a dental tool for just such occasions and yes was a bit leeary of damaging the channels...i'll see if a tooth pick will suffice.

Anyway, thanks for the extra tips!

g

**Gill Envy** · 28th February 2007, 19:28

replacement "o" rings are on the way. I'll let you know if that solves the issues. The next step may be replacement...Ed Price and I agreed that one should not have to buy a flow stop as a band aid to control leaking. His explanation for the flow stop was that it's more for buoency/gas efficiency when changing depths temporarily.

I'm looking forward to a trustable fix one way or another.

23rd February 2007, 02:18	#1 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Divers Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,348	Possible quick fix for a Leaky ADV I've been a little frustrated as some of you know, about the tendency of my and my wife's ADV to leak. As tino directed me to do, I asked AP for the manual to service the ADV and have been looking it over, poised to order the tools and jump in...I've been a little reluctant and have been putting it off because it's a bit more of a complex endeovre than i've taken on before. In any case the recurrence of leaks has been a real drain on our confidence in our units but I learned a valuable solution today that could resolve many of the ADV woes out there that I wanted to pass on just in case others were making the same oversight as me. Today I was doing the usual preparations for diving and decided to soak the ADV in filtered water to see if I could desolve any plaque to get it to stop leaking, per one of tino's suggestions. I removed the loop hoses and placed the unit face down with a small bowl of water under the ADV. I slowly turned othe dilluent and could see where the leak was comming from now that it was under water and with the loop hoses off. Normally I could just hear it coming from the inside but couldn't see it...It was not comming from the regulator as I had thought but rather the banjo fitting end, where it came through the housing, leaking to the inside of the loop. I took the banjo fitting apart and took a much harder study of it's design, as I couldn't really get my head around how it was possible for it to leak to the inside of the loop when the banjo fitting is on the outside. This time I realized that there were three "O" rings to consider, not the obvious one, that I have focussed on in cleaning in the past, the one the that has trouble seating on occasion when first turning on the dilluent and free flowes to the outside of the loop. So, I did a more thorough cleaning, both inside the tube and the complete stem. I fully cleaned the stem, removing all plaque and used a dowell wrapped in paper with some lube on it to more forcibly clean and lube the inside of the fitting...there was some build up of plaque visible. Then I put it back together and violla, no more leaking. Then I applied the same technique to our other unit which also had a small internal leak and it also solved the problem...for now. I feel a bit like a tool for not getting this earlier and just thought I'd pass this experience along hoping to save others some frustration. It woud be such a shame for folks to send their units in or go through the trouble of getting the tools to service the regulator if this is actually the more common cause of a leaky ADV. Rulling out the banjo fitting as the source of the leak before you go throught the trouble of sending in your unit or sevicing the regulator could save you some time and hastle. hope that helps, __________________ __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°> Last edited by Gill Envy : 24th February 2007 at 23:06.
(Online)

24th February 2007, 07:21	#2 (permalink)
Tino de Rijk Old, maybe one day wise Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 375	Re: Possible quick fix for a Leaky ADV See....? "If All Fails, RTFM (read the f... manual)". I would though really recommend replacing the three O-rings - and especially the 2 inside. Do it every time you service or inspect it, e.g. once a year or so. Costs: a few cents for O-rings. APD is cheap in their spare parts. They will also supply you with the proper sizing & hardness, if you want to get them from your local O-ring supplier. For those interested in self-sourcing: - the 2 internal O-rings in the banjo are of type & size BS012N70, - the external one on the banjo is type & size BS014N70. Your O-ring supplier should know what size this is with this info. Just cleaning the channel & relubricating it will not tell you if the O-rings may in fact haver some damage. Greasing might disguise that for a while, but the costs do not outweight the potential sorrow. These particular O-rings have a hard life, exposed to the environment and rotating all the time. It may look hard to replace them, but it really is not. You have the manual, so you can see how to do it. A tip: remove the old ones, and then use them as "crash test dummies", trying to get them back in again in a proper way. Make sure you do not use a too sharp device to remove them, as you might damage the holding groove. I use a deliberately made blunt dentist pick, but a wooden toothpick will do fine as well. Test if you did a good job by seeing if it still seals under pressure & under rotation after replacement. Once you have done that a few times, finally replace them with new ones with your newly mastered skills. I always try my new tricks on old, to-be-thrown-away stuff. ciao, Tino. Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy) I fully cleaned the stem, removing all plaque and used a dowell wrapped in paper with some lube on it to more forcibly clean and lube the inside of the fitting...there was some build up visible. Then I put it back together and violla, no more leaking. Then I applied the same technique to our other unit which also had a small internal leak and it also solved the problem...for now. Last edited by Tino de Rijk : 24th February 2007 at 07:29.
(Offline)

25th February 2007, 18:38	#3 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Divers Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,348	Re: Possible quick fix for a Leaky ADV Once again Tino, you've been helpful and I will RTFM... I think i'm do for a replacement of those "O" rings as even after my latest cleaning, there was an internal leak. I wouldn't be so apt to complain about it if it weren't for the fact that this problem started just a few months after buying the evolution. The ADV seems to be the main thing that still has some "evolving" to do. I'm very much looking forward to the BOV that will replace it, hopefully it will not have the swivel and will have fewer "O" rings to cause greef. I have a dental tool for just such occasions and yes was a bit leeary of damaging the channels...i'll see if a tooth pick will suffice. Anyway, thanks for the extra tips! g Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino de Rijk) See....? "If All Fails, RTFM (read the f... manual)". I would though really recommend replacing the three O-rings - and especially the 2 inside. Do it every time you service or inspect it, e.g. once a year or so. Costs: a few cents for O-rings. APD is cheap in their spare parts. They will also supply you with the proper sizing & hardness, if you want to get them from your local O-ring supplier. For those interested in self-sourcing: - the 2 internal O-rings in the banjo are of type & size BS012N70, - the external one on the banjo is type & size BS014N70. Your O-ring supplier should know what size this is with this info. Just cleaning the channel & relubricating it will not tell you if the O-rings may in fact haver some damage. Greasing might disguise that for a while, but the costs do not outweight the potential sorrow. These particular O-rings have a hard life, exposed to the environment and rotating all the time. It may look hard to replace them, but it really is not. You have the manual, so you can see how to do it. A tip: remove the old ones, and then use them as "crash test dummies", trying to get them back in again in a proper way. Make sure you do not use a too sharp device to remove them, as you might damage the holding groove. I use a deliberately made blunt dentist pick, but a wooden toothpick will do fine as well. Test if you did a good job by seeing if it still seals under pressure & under rotation after replacement. Once you have done that a few times, finally replace them with new ones with your newly mastered skills. I always try my new tricks on old, to-be-thrown-away stuff. ciao, Tino. __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>
(Online)

28th February 2007, 10:18	#4 (permalink)
Tino de Rijk Old, maybe one day wise Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 375	Re: Possible quick fix for a Leaky ADV Both on my previous Classics and my current (two) Visions, I never had problems with the ADV. But then again I service them twice a year or so, and replace O-rings each year. It's a 10-minute job if you know how to do it, and as discussed before, the ADV can stay in place on the counterlungs while doing it, so why safe on it? Packing a scrubber costs more time (although Martin's new "system" safes a few minutes....). If I service without replacing O-rings (let's call it an intermediate service :-) ), I still remove the O-rings, clean & relubricate them & place them back. You would be surprised at the amount of salt & chalk (e.g. due to rinsing) that builds up on them.... Ciao, Tino. Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy) Once again Tino, you've been helpful and I will RTFM... I think i'm do for a replacement of those "O" rings as even after my latest cleaning, there was an internal leak. I wouldn't be so apt to complain about it if it weren't for the fact that this problem started just a few months after buying the evolution. The ADV seems to be the main thing that still has some "evolving" to do. I'm very much looking forward to the BOV that will replace it, hopefully it will not have the swivel and will have fewer "O" rings to cause greef. I have a dental tool for just such occasions and yes was a bit leeary of damaging the channels...i'll see if a tooth pick will suffice. Anyway, thanks for the extra tips! g
(Offline)

28th February 2007, 19:28	#5 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Divers Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,348	Re: Possible quick fix for a Leaky ADV replacement "o" rings are on the way. I'll let you know if that solves the issues. The next step may be replacement...Ed Price and I agreed that one should not have to buy a flow stop as a band aid to control leaking. His explanation for the flow stop was that it's more for buoency/gas efficiency when changing depths temporarily. I'm looking forward to a trustable fix one way or another. __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>
(Online)

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