Steel Bio Marine Ind. Tanks

Crazyduck · 8th September 2006, 19:44

I have been looking at some tanks from Bio Marine.
They were for the Biomarine 45 firefighting rebreather.

The tanks are green, size 4' x 13" with a valve that has a screwed in gauge and what looks like a ‘I’ valve for mounting the tank. The valve is opened by twisting the very small unit at the end of the valve.

I would be interested in the tanks but they will need new tank valves– can new tank valves be used or is this a tapered thread that screws into the tank?

Is this going to require a Tom Rose type solution?

Does anyone have any experience with tanks like this?

Thanks, Andrew

Yankee Rebel · 9th September 2006, 01:14

ive got some of these cylinders myself. i believe the valve thread is 1/2" tapered (NTP?), but i could well be wrong. best to check with someone else to be 100% sure. IIRC its the same standardized thread that was used on the old steel personal O2 cylinders for med o2.

Yankee Rebel

Skipbreather · 9th September 2006, 19:02

The early BP45 & BP60 O2 tanks – they’re interchangeable- did indeed use the standard ½ inch pipe thread that was used on early SCUBA tanks. Later cylinders used the same straight thread w/ O ring seal that is still used today on small medical O2 cylinders.

cool_hardware52 · 9th September 2006, 19:30

Quote: (Originally Posted by Crazyduck)

I have been looking at some tanks from Bio Marine.
They were for the Biomarine 45 firefighting rebreather.

The tanks are green, size 4' x 13" with a valve that has a screwed in gauge and what looks like a ‘I’ valve for mounting the tank. The valve is opened by twisting the very small unit at the end of the valve.

I would be interested in the tanks but they will need new tank valves– can new tank valves be used or is this a tapered thread that screws into the tank?

Hi Andrew,

The tank thread is NGT, National Gas Tight, looks like NPT National Pipe thread, but it is a little different, slower taper IIRC.

I might have a source for brand new "K" din valves with NGT threads, my PST VIP instuctor mentioned he had some NOS 1/2" valves, I'd have to track him down and get his contact info.

How old and how many hydro's? One reason the NGT threads were abondoned for scuba tanks was due to the valve setting protocol the neck threads can get worn beyond use. If the tanks are littered with hydro dates the valves have been reset alot.

Tobin

abowie · 10th September 2006, 03:05

Why not use the existing valves?

The gauge will come off ant the hole can be plugged easily enough. If the handwheel isn't big enough you can make bigger ones (or probably source something that will do the job).

I can't actually see the orifice that the gas comes out of but they seem to use a yoke fitting; betcha Biomarine can supply those for a pittance too.

koputai · 10th September 2006, 04:23

Quote: (Originally Posted by abowie)

Why not use the existing valves?

The gauge will come off ant the hole can be plugged easily enough. If the handwheel isn't big enough you can make bigger ones (or probably source something that will do the job).

There's nothing wrong with these valves, and the little knobs are fine. These regs are the same as used on Mk15/15.5 rebreathers, including the little knobs. Ok, no jokes about Mk divers having little knobs !

Cheers,
Jason.

decoweenie · 10th September 2006, 06:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by koputai)

Ok, no jokes about Mk divers having little knobs !

... but they have big stainless-steel balls to compensate...

Yankee Rebel · 10th September 2006, 16:35

my guess is that he wants to use them with a standard SCUBA type 1st stage. the valves on a Biopak cylinder wont take a standard scuba type 1st stage. they will need an o-ring groove machined/turned into the face fo the valve where the oriface is. the stock little tiny groove is too small for it to mate up with a SCUBA 1st stage. this is a thought that i had, having an o-ring groove put into the face by a machinist. the downside is the chrome coating on the valve will have exposed bras underneath, and will likely have to be rechromed. extra costs. also thered be the time and expense of locating a chrome shop, and all that. not sure about anyone else but the only chrome shop that i have in my area, that i am aware of, is the famed Stockton Wheel, and i believe they send their stuff out to be chromed. for the cost and hassles, if new valves can be found for a standard SCUBA reg, thatd likely be the cheapest and easiest option.

cool_hardware52 · 10th September 2006, 16:43

Quote: (Originally Posted by Yankee Rebel)

having an o-ring groove put into the face by a machinist. the downside is the chrome coating on the valve will have exposed bras underneath, and will likely have to be rechromed.

As an alternative, have them stripped and electroless nickel plated. EN plating can be found relatively easily, better corrossion protection too.

Plating shop minimums are the real impediment.

Tobin

Crazyduck · 10th September 2006, 22:54

First thanks for all the ideas I sincerely appreciate it.

A little calculation of cost verses benefit.
I can purchase a S19 with Genesis valves for $100.00.
The tanks are selling for $25.00 each which is a buy.

I tracked down the tanks specs through rebretherworld.nl and found the recommended tank pressure to be 2100.
Next Neutronics had the tanks listed with 60lbs of torque for reseating them with tape.
Getting them hydro’d and VIP’d and filled could be interesting.

I will talk to my local dive shop and see how they take it.
A lot can be said by just walking in and seeing the look in their face.

I will checkout the hydro stamps.
Plating is not a problem with me working for an Engineering business I live in black anodize, hard anodize with Teflon coat, E-nickel, and carbonizing.

Good news is there is great help and something about steel balls.

Thanks, I will keep after it.
Thanks, for the PM’s also.

Andrew

9th September 2006, 01:14	#2 (permalink)
Yankee Rebel Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: California Posts: 147	Re: Steel Bio Marine Ind. Tanks ive got some of these cylinders myself. i believe the valve thread is 1/2" tapered (NTP?), but i could well be wrong. best to check with someone else to be 100% sure. IIRC its the same standardized thread that was used on the old steel personal O2 cylinders for med o2. Yankee Rebel
(Offline)

9th September 2006, 19:02	#3 (permalink)
Skipbreather Reads the fine print Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet MK 15.X Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago, Illinois, USA Posts: 584	Re: Steel Bio Marine Ind. Tanks The early BP45 & BP60 O2 tanks – they’re interchangeable- did indeed use the standard ½ inch pipe thread that was used on early SCUBA tanks. Later cylinders used the same straight thread w/ O ring seal that is still used today on small medical O2 cylinders.
(Offline)

9th September 2006, 19:30	#4 (permalink)
cool_hardware52 RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: SoCal USA Posts: 399	Re: Steel Bio Marine Ind. Tanks Quote: (Originally Posted by Crazyduck) I have been looking at some tanks from Bio Marine. They were for the Biomarine 45 firefighting rebreather. The tanks are green, size 4' x 13" with a valve that has a screwed in gauge and what looks like a ‘I’ valve for mounting the tank. The valve is opened by twisting the very small unit at the end of the valve. I would be interested in the tanks but they will need new tank valves– can new tank valves be used or is this a tapered thread that screws into the tank? Hi Andrew, The tank thread is NGT, National Gas Tight, looks like NPT National Pipe thread, but it is a little different, slower taper IIRC. I might have a source for brand new "K" din valves with NGT threads, my PST VIP instuctor mentioned he had some NOS 1/2" valves, I'd have to track him down and get his contact info. How old and how many hydro's? One reason the NGT threads were abondoned for scuba tanks was due to the valve setting protocol the neck threads can get worn beyond use. If the tanks are littered with hydro dates the valves have been reset alot. Tobin __________________ www.deepseasupply.com
(Offline)

10th September 2006, 03:05	#5 (permalink)
abowie Fighting Girl Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Land of Oz Posts: 574	Re: Steel Bio Marine Ind. Tanks Why not use the existing valves? The gauge will come off ant the hole can be plugged easily enough. If the handwheel isn't big enough you can make bigger ones (or probably source something that will do the job). I can't actually see the orifice that the gas comes out of but they seem to use a yoke fitting; betcha Biomarine can supply those for a pittance too. __________________ Andrew Bowie Rebreather-friendly Buddy
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10th September 2006, 04:23	#6 (permalink)
koputai Subsea Systems Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other CCR Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other CCR Other SCR Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 350	Re: Steel Bio Marine Ind. Tanks Quote: (Originally Posted by abowie) Why not use the existing valves? The gauge will come off ant the hole can be plugged easily enough. If the handwheel isn't big enough you can make bigger ones (or probably source something that will do the job). There's nothing wrong with these valves, and the little knobs are fine. These regs are the same as used on Mk15/15.5 rebreathers, including the little knobs. Ok, no jokes about Mk divers having little knobs ! Cheers, Jason.
(Offline)

10th September 2006, 06:52	#7 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: Steel Bio Marine Ind. Tanks Quote: (Originally Posted by koputai) Ok, no jokes about Mk divers having little knobs ! ... but they have big stainless-steel balls to compensate... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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10th September 2006, 16:35	#8 (permalink)
Yankee Rebel Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: California Posts: 147	Re: Steel Bio Marine Ind. Tanks my guess is that he wants to use them with a standard SCUBA type 1st stage. the valves on a Biopak cylinder wont take a standard scuba type 1st stage. they will need an o-ring groove machined/turned into the face fo the valve where the oriface is. the stock little tiny groove is too small for it to mate up with a SCUBA 1st stage. this is a thought that i had, having an o-ring groove put into the face by a machinist. the downside is the chrome coating on the valve will have exposed bras underneath, and will likely have to be rechromed. extra costs. also thered be the time and expense of locating a chrome shop, and all that. not sure about anyone else but the only chrome shop that i have in my area, that i am aware of, is the famed Stockton Wheel, and i believe they send their stuff out to be chromed. for the cost and hassles, if new valves can be found for a standard SCUBA reg, thatd likely be the cheapest and easiest option.
(Offline)

10th September 2006, 16:43	#9 (permalink)
cool_hardware52 RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: SoCal USA Posts: 399	Re: Steel Bio Marine Ind. Tanks Quote: (Originally Posted by Yankee Rebel) having an o-ring groove put into the face by a machinist. the downside is the chrome coating on the valve will have exposed bras underneath, and will likely have to be rechromed. As an alternative, have them stripped and electroless nickel plated. EN plating can be found relatively easily, better corrossion protection too. Plating shop minimums are the real impediment. Tobin __________________ www.deepseasupply.com
(Offline)

10th September 2006, 22:54	#10 (permalink)
Crazyduck Underwater Mechanic Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TEXAS, Dallas/ Ft.Worth Posts: 720	Re: Steel Bio Marine Ind. Tanks First thanks for all the ideas I sincerely appreciate it. A little calculation of cost verses benefit. I can purchase a S19 with Genesis valves for $100.00. The tanks are selling for $25.00 each which is a buy. I tracked down the tanks specs through rebretherworld.nl and found the recommended tank pressure to be 2100. Next Neutronics had the tanks listed with 60lbs of torque for reseating them with tape. Getting them hydro’d and VIP’d and filled could be interesting. I will talk to my local dive shop and see how they take it. A lot can be said by just walking in and seeing the look in their face. I will checkout the hydro stamps. Plating is not a problem with me working for an Engineering business I live in black anodize, hard anodize with Teflon coat, E-nickel, and carbonizing. Good news is there is great help and something about steel balls. Thanks, I will keep after it. Thanks, for the PM’s also. Andrew __________________ Howdy Senor- What’s Happening! Rob Davie April 2005- Presently in a state of transition from Open Circuit to Closed Circuit. "You will not be punished for your anger; you will be punished by it." - Buddha.
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