Kip-8

whoizrob

Anyone ever play with one? Comments? Mr. Sutton? You made a brief mention of one on your tear down website but no details?

Rob

Dave Sutton

Yeah, I struggled with one for a while. Basically, you need to remove a lot of the pneumatics for the thing to work. The position of the demand regulator is placed so that it's damned near impossible to not have it freeflow continuously in the water. If cannot be adjusted to not freeflow and still be able to be used as a manual add valve. If you remove nearly all of the pneumatics and add your own stuff, it's actually an OK pure 02 rig. Counterlung is a little small but that's OK for pure 02. The chassis is neat. Hoses interchange with other Russian setups. It's a worthwhile project, far better than trying to get a Biopak to work, that's for sure. Just plan to use the chassis, lung, scrubber (neat scrubber too), and basic hardware, replace pneumatics, and all will be well. The cylinder has the same metric 02 thread on it as many other rigs so it can be adapted to feed a standard first stage for gas feed.

I carry one aboard my boat for an emergency 02 system. I have a hose to hook it to a larger cylinder and it's an 02 extender used for us to bed a diver down in a bunk on pure 02 while we wait for helicopter evacuation.


Dave

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"Silent Diving with No Bubbles and No Politics".... www.nobubblediving.com

jaap

Yes I can only agree that its a lot of work to get one to work properly as an O2 Rebreather for UW-use. I have a few and I have mostly used them as parts for other projects or for a very limited of numbers of O2 dives. The truth is my KIP-8's have only been collecting dust for the last years.

Since the unit is not made for UW-use most if not all of the penumatics have to go. The scrubber is fairly small and is not very corrosion resitant. So if you get your hand on a used KIP-8 make sure the scrubber is not too rusty. The original paint is not the best either so some form of rust proofing repainting is good. Also the mouthpice does not have a shut off so a proper DSV or some major modifications of it is required.

If one is really into it is possible to block the rather high CMF-O2 flow and detune the ADV so that it can be dived with the original regulator. But its a lot of finetuning and not 100% sure that it will work. I have been tinkering with a total of 6 KIP-8 units and I managed to detune two of them. But a lot of work. Also the manometers are not waterproof. Most of the tank valves on the units I have been tinkering with turned out to be in a very bad condition too.

Dave Sutton

Blocking thre CMF is easy (epoxy). You had better luck than me with detuning though... I never was able to do it. IDA-71 DSV and IDA-71 gauge (Manometer for you!) fit perfectly. Scrubber is "Interesting".

Come to think if it, mine lives in a dusty box under my bench too.... ;-)


Dave

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"Silent Diving with No Bubbles and No Politics".... www.nobubblediving.com

whoizrob

The idea was simply to use the unit as a donor for a homebuild KISS system, gutting the original unit and tossing the cylinders, hoses, and regs. Primarily I am just looking for a good chasis to play with, a scrubber and some decent CL's but don't wish to spend an arm and a leg on what is ultimately an exercise in mental masturbation. The rig would be dived well within rec dive limits, no deco, just a cruiser for shallow dives enjoying the silence, warm air and lack of bubbles.

I know the IDA-71 is the chasis of choice for KISS conversions but I simply can't justify spending that kind of cash until I *know* I'm going to use this as more than a diversion. This would be a jumping off point so to speak to test the waters.

Any chance either of you would part with your KIP-8 bits and pieces?

Sincerely,

Rob

Dave Sutton

I really don't think the KIP-8 is what you need or want.... it's really marginal for anything, and unsuitable for anything not within pure 02 limits. Scrubber is TINY. Frankly, you could do better with an hour spent at a large hardware store....

If you need a scrubber to play with, I have *tons* of spare IDA-71 scrubbers. Once you have a scrubber in hand, the rest of a homebuilt rig is easy to make. But I would not waste my money on a KIP-8. I'd buy a Biopak 240 instead if I were dedicated to the idea of a conversion, but you can do better with a straight homebuilt.


Dave

__________________
"Silent Diving with No Bubbles and No Politics".... www.nobubblediving.com

jaap

Yes for a KISS CCR a KIP-8 is really on the small side to start from. And for a simple O2 Rebreather its still a lot of work to get it going...

With the prices they go for and given that the cheapest ones comes from former USSR contries with rather expensive shipping & bank costs I would not buy one for shipping to the US.

If you look around a new IDA-71 can be had for about twice (or maybe 3 times) as much and is a proven homebuild starter.

Or if you find some hoses all the rest can be built from hardware items if you really want to. But its difficult to keep the costs down if you dig around to much in hardware stores... you almost never buy the right stuff the first time and you always find something better later on. I still occasionally buy Rebreather-things that could be handy in hardware stores even though I have >10 RB laying around.

whoizrob

Thanks for the replies Dave and Jaap. The scrubber is mostly for convenience as I planned on building a larger capacity one once I got all the leaks and issues straightened out. Honestly the biggest obstacle I have is manufacturing (or sourcing) a good CL. It seems that most homebuilds have used some non optimal material (motorcycle inner tubes, fabric sourced from McMaster Carr, etc) or are MSR based (which doesn't really fit the package I had in mind. As such I'd like to base my home build off of an existing scrubber and CL system and workout all the plumbing and hoses on my own. The nifty Ali Case the IDA/KIP comes in is just icing on the cake

I do like the IDA scrubbers I just can't figure out how to make an effective CL to work with the scrubbers. Which brought me to the KIP. It has a small scrubber which is less of an issue as I can build a larger capacity scrubber no problem. The CL, if I recall correctly, has a 9L capacity which should be adequate? And the case seems like it would have enough room to fit what I wanted in it.

Any hints/tips on how to accomplish this? Any ideas on counterlungs? Thanks!

Rob

Dave Sutton

Counterlungs: Buy thin wetsuit material, and glue them up. Lap the seams and tape them with neoprene glue-on tape. Make them any size and shape you like. I use P-Connectors for connecting to the balance of the loop components. Two counterlungs, one on each side of the inhale and exhale side of an IDA-71 scrubber is a good start. Use a T fitting at each entry and add the breathing hoses there. Attach the scrubber to the middle of a backplate and add two PVC pipe lengths parallel to the scrubber on either side as close to the backplate as possible. Stuff the neoprene counerlungs down them for protection. Use irrigation pipe for the PVC as it has a million holes in it. Attach a pair of small cylinders lain on the intersection of the PVC pipes and the scrubber on each side and band it all together with stainless steel hose clamps. You've just roughly replicated a KISS rebreather in form and layout. Add pneumatics. Substitute MSR bags if you don't want to glue your own counterlungs. DUI CF-200 fabric makes great counterlungs but if you shield mechanically from damage with PVC you can use normal thin neoprene sheets.


Only >10 rebreathers with our friend from Sweden? Hmmm..... you're only starting! ;-)

Dave

__________________
"Silent Diving with No Bubbles and No Politics".... www.nobubblediving.com

dz3866

I did up a kip-8 a few years ago, took out everything and kept only the shell and scrubber, i used a lung from a drager BG-174 ( same material as the LAR-V) nice. put a p-port on the top of the scrubber and one in the lung and used my Ray hoses and DSV, modified scubapro-109 for demand valve, small 6 cubic bottle in the housing, bolted on a BC and away I went, great little back mount 02 rebreather, very light, but i agree really only good for this purpose. Also there is not much more room in the case to fit a bigger scrubber, but if you still want to go for it, I have a shell and scrubber, and maybe a few other parts for $125.00.