conversion costs?

whoizrob · 24th June 2006, 09:07

New thread has been started =)

P6017 · 24th June 2006, 16:41

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

Or ask me directly! ... ;-)

Dave Sutton

(yes, still alive and slaving over a lathe and milling machine in the little diveshop of horrors.... torturing rebreathers since 1977....)

Hi Dave,
good to hear from you.
Pete

jasondrake · 25th June 2006, 04:11

Thanks very much to all. I'll ask some more specifics once I've played with the new toy, and let my mind wander towards all the possibilities...

montyg · 25th June 2006, 21:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

IDA-71 stuff: I've evolved the Franken-Son design quite a lot since I stopped updating the website, basically we have abandoned using any dilunt in the chassis, use both scrubbers, and only carry 02 internally. We are using shoulder-mounted quick disconnct whips to feed diluent back into the rig from an offboard cylinder and snap on any *correctly sized* diluent bottle to meet the mission. Snap on a 1 litre bottle for shallow no-deco, snap on a 7 for deep diving, and anything in between. We did find that running only one scrubber led to some minor hypercapnic incidents at depths in excess of perhaps 150 feet. Running both scrubbers eliminates this.

Dave Sutton
DSutton@NoBubbleDiving.com

Thanks very much for that advice Dave!

Is it possible to have a small, onboard diluent cylinder in that space at the bottom of the IDA-71, below the two scrubbers and the on-board O2 cylinder?

I have never seen an IDA-71 in person, but I am very seriouly considering it as my next KISS coversion project and I'd like to know if having on-board diluent is still possible even when using both scrubbers.

*Of course* I would still carry bail-out and the ability to plug in off-board gases would be nice...

rgds
monty

**Dave Sutton** · 26th June 2006, 03:54

It "might" be possible to put a VERY small cylinder across the bottom, but it would be too small, trust me. I use that space in mine for the battery pack of a small HID canister light. You *will* need to carry at least a 1 litre bottle someplace for suit and wings inflation anyhow, so why not plumb it to the rig for the diluent supply? Run a small bottle across the TOP of the chassis to balance it out and use that for absolute minimal diluent if needed. Jens did that with a small bottle on his AKA-60 for his suit and it looks great and works great. But even rigged as a tiny stage bottle, a 1 or 2 litre bottle is so small you'll never know it's there. Trust me on this also, one scrubber in the IDA-71 is NOT ENOUGH as we found out thru empirical test (IE *me* at 200 feet hypercapnic... not fun). Works OK thru about 60 feet, not deeper.

My own personal IDA-71 rig is now modular enough to accept internal diluent and one scrubber *or* two scrubbers with external diluent just by reconnecting a pair of fittings. Plug-and-Play is the the name of the game... You *can* have it both ways if you like in the same rig if you design and modify carefully.

IDA-71 is still a great chassis for conversion.... I could build 15 all different and all cool in their own ways (and actually I have....

)

IDA-72... now *there's* a rig.....

Dave

**Dave Sutton** · 26th June 2006, 03:58

Quote: (Originally Posted by P6017)

Hi Dave,
good to hear from you.
Pete

Thanks, Pete... you know your way to the garage.. don't be a stranger. Bring that Meg up the 3rd and 4th of July and let's dive the U-Boat.

Dave

P6017 · 26th June 2006, 22:17

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

Thanks, Pete... you know your way to the garage.. don't be a stranger. Bring that Meg up the 3rd and 4th of July and let's dive the U-Boat.

Dave

Dave,
thanks for the invite but cant get the 3rd off from work. On the other hand, my son is going to the Naval Academy prep school in Newport starting in early August and I plan to be up that way frequently. Maybe you can squeeze me in on another trip. Let me know.
Pete

Jens Kallmeyer · 26th June 2006, 23:56

Quote:

Run a small bottle across the TOP of the chassis to balance it out and use that for absolute minimal diluent if needed. Jens did that with a small bottle on his AKA-60 for his suit and it looks great and works great.e

HI

Having a 2 liter bottle on top of the rig is a really neat thing, because the huge CL of the AKA 60 has to be balanced if you don't want to stand upright in the water. Additionally I tie about 1 kg of weight around the top cylinder, this way the rig is perfectly balanced. Took me a while to figure that out, now I don't want to change a thing.
The cylinder just has normal air in it, I run BC and Drysuit inflation from it, but also have a normal second stage fitted, just in case everything else goes wrong I have a few breaths of air. The best thing is during Deko, just deflate the BC and run the suit on minimum volume, clip the Deco line into the cheststrap or kummerbund of the BC and turn on your back. The top cylinder is the perfect cushion for your head, Deco can be soooo relaxing.

Best wishes

Jens

24th June 2006, 09:07	#11 (permalink)
whoizrob New Member Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sacramento Posts: 72	New thread... New thread has been started =)
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24th June 2006, 16:41	#12 (permalink)
P6017 New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 83	Re: conversion costs? Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) Or ask me directly! ... ;-) Dave Sutton (yes, still alive and slaving over a lathe and milling machine in the little diveshop of horrors.... torturing rebreathers since 1977....) Hi Dave, good to hear from you. Pete
(Offline)

25th June 2006, 04:11	#13 (permalink)
jasondrake RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Completely homeless Posts: 77	Re: conversion costs? Thanks very much to all. I'll ask some more specifics once I've played with the new toy, and let my mind wander towards all the possibilities...
(Online)

25th June 2006, 21:56	#14 (permalink)
montyg Monty Guest Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Cape Town, South Africa Posts: 242	Re: conversion costs? Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) IDA-71 stuff: I've evolved the Franken-Son design quite a lot since I stopped updating the website, basically we have abandoned using any dilunt in the chassis, use both scrubbers, and only carry 02 internally. We are using shoulder-mounted quick disconnct whips to feed diluent back into the rig from an offboard cylinder and snap on any correctly sized diluent bottle to meet the mission. Snap on a 1 litre bottle for shallow no-deco, snap on a 7 for deep diving, and anything in between. We did find that running only one scrubber led to some minor hypercapnic incidents at depths in excess of perhaps 150 feet. Running both scrubbers eliminates this. Dave Sutton DSutton@NoBubbleDiving.com Thanks very much for that advice Dave! Is it possible to have a small, onboard diluent cylinder in that space at the bottom of the IDA-71, below the two scrubbers and the on-board O2 cylinder? I have never seen an IDA-71 in person, but I am very seriouly considering it as my next KISS coversion project and I'd like to know if having on-board diluent is still possible even when using both scrubbers. Of course I would still carry bail-out and the ability to plug in off-board gases would be nice... rgds monty
(Online)

26th June 2006, 03:54	#15 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,907	Re: conversion costs? It "might" be possible to put a VERY small cylinder across the bottom, but it would be too small, trust me. I use that space in mine for the battery pack of a small HID canister light. You will need to carry at least a 1 litre bottle someplace for suit and wings inflation anyhow, so why not plumb it to the rig for the diluent supply? Run a small bottle across the TOP of the chassis to balance it out and use that for absolute minimal diluent if needed. Jens did that with a small bottle on his AKA-60 for his suit and it looks great and works great. But even rigged as a tiny stage bottle, a 1 or 2 litre bottle is so small you'll never know it's there. Trust me on this also, one scrubber in the IDA-71 is NOT ENOUGH as we found out thru empirical test (IE me at 200 feet hypercapnic... not fun). Works OK thru about 60 feet, not deeper. My own personal IDA-71 rig is now modular enough to accept internal diluent and one scrubber or two scrubbers with external diluent just by reconnecting a pair of fittings. Plug-and-Play is the the name of the game... You can have it both ways if you like in the same rig if you design and modify carefully. IDA-71 is still a great chassis for conversion.... I could build 15 all different and all cool in their own ways (and actually I have.... ) IDA-72... now there's a rig..... Dave __________________ "Silent Diving with No Bubbles and No Politics".... www.nobubblediving.com
(Offline)

26th June 2006, 03:58	#16 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,907	Re: conversion costs? Quote: (Originally Posted by P6017) Hi Dave, good to hear from you. Pete Thanks, Pete... you know your way to the garage.. don't be a stranger. Bring that Meg up the 3rd and 4th of July and let's dive the U-Boat. Dave __________________ "Silent Diving with No Bubbles and No Politics".... www.nobubblediving.com
(Offline)

26th June 2006, 22:17	#17 (permalink)
P6017 New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 83	Re: conversion costs? Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) Thanks, Pete... you know your way to the garage.. don't be a stranger. Bring that Meg up the 3rd and 4th of July and let's dive the U-Boat. Dave Dave, thanks for the invite but cant get the 3rd off from work. On the other hand, my son is going to the Naval Academy prep school in Newport starting in early August and I plan to be up that way frequently. Maybe you can squeeze me in on another trip. Let me know. Pete
(Offline)

26th June 2006, 23:56	#18 (permalink)
Jens Kallmeyer New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: RI, US Posts: 55	Re: conversion costs? Quote: Run a small bottle across the TOP of the chassis to balance it out and use that for absolute minimal diluent if needed. Jens did that with a small bottle on his AKA-60 for his suit and it looks great and works great.e HI Having a 2 liter bottle on top of the rig is a really neat thing, because the huge CL of the AKA 60 has to be balanced if you don't want to stand upright in the water. Additionally I tie about 1 kg of weight around the top cylinder, this way the rig is perfectly balanced. Took me a while to figure that out, now I don't want to change a thing. The cylinder just has normal air in it, I run BC and Drysuit inflation from it, but also have a normal second stage fitted, just in case everything else goes wrong I have a few breaths of air. The best thing is during Deko, just deflate the BC and run the suit on minimum volume, clip the Deco line into the cheststrap or kummerbund of the BC and turn on your back. The top cylinder is the perfect cushion for your head, Deco can be soooo relaxing. Best wishes Jens Last edited by Jens Kallmeyer : 26th June 2006 at 23:59.
(Offline)

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