The ultimate gas sensor

zbskii · 16th June 2006, 21:10

Ran into the ionchip today while browsing the web. It's a mass spectrometer on a chip:
http://www.microsaic.com/ionchip.html

Sent 'em an email to see if it's even feasible, but what could be better than a full on gas mass spectrometer in your loop? Anybody thought about this?
-Brett

Simon A · 16th June 2006, 23:10

At the moment it'll probably be unfeasable, however seeing as how we're only after O2 and CO2 the day will come when we have small, reliable, reasonable cost detectors for both O2 and CO2.
Simon A

abowie · 16th June 2006, 23:19

Looks clever.

The obvious place to find these would be in the multigas analysers we use in anaesthesia. Another huge application market would be in industrial gas analysis.

As yet I have not seen an anaesthetic gas analyser based on this sort of technology; we still use IR. There would be a huge fanfare if someone had made a mass spec unit; it is considered the gold standard.

apitkin · 20th June 2006, 17:59

Of course, you remember we don't use IR for oxygen. Rapid-response oxygen analysis uses the paramagnetic principle.

Now if only someone would build a compact low-power paramagnetic sensor that was no bigger than a fuel cell. Maybe something like this.

Linear, doesn't need recalibrating, and pretty much lasts for ever.

I'm guessing the main problem will be electromagnetic noise, e.g. from HID ballasts.

Andy

***EBT*** · 20th June 2006, 18:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by apitkin)

Maybe something like this.

Linear, doesn't need recalibrating, and pretty much lasts for ever.

Interesting. its a 3cm cube (quite small).

Possible negatives are that it needs 50ma @ 5v and a non condensing environment. Given that its output is serial uart, you're going to need to interface to that with suitable cabling/termination electronics.

Still worth a look though, good find andy.

jaap · 20th June 2006, 19:42

Quote: (Originally Posted by apitkin)

Of course, you remember we don't use IR for oxygen. Rapid-response oxygen analysis uses the paramagnetic principle.

Now if only someone would build a compact low-power paramagnetic sensor that was no bigger than a fuel cell. Maybe something like this.

Linear, doesn't need recalibrating, and pretty much lasts for ever.

I'm guessing the main problem will be electromagnetic noise, e.g. from HID ballasts.

Andy

Hi

AFAIK paramagnetic O2 sensors would not work in a Rebreather since the RB tends to move a lot while in use...

We have a Servomex for O2 analysis by our fillstation and a friend has been evaluating various small paramagnetic sensors for Rebreather use, AFAIK none of them give reliable readings if you move them around slowly.

apitkin · 24th June 2006, 03:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by jaap)

Hi

AFAIK paramagnetic O2 sensors would not work in a Rebreather since the RB tends to move a lot while in use...

We have a Servomex for O2 analysis by our fillstation and a friend has been evaluating various small paramagnetic sensors for Rebreather use, AFAIK none of them give reliable readings if you move them around slowly.

Thanks. I just knew there had to be a catch.

16th June 2006, 21:10	#1 (permalink)
zbskii I have a diving problem. Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 143	The ultimate gas sensor Ran into the ionchip today while browsing the web. It's a mass spectrometer on a chip: http://www.microsaic.com/ionchip.html Sent 'em an email to see if it's even feasible, but what could be better than a full on gas mass spectrometer in your loop? Anybody thought about this? -Brett
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16th June 2006, 23:10	#2 (permalink)
Simon A Escapee from DIY Rebreather's Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Reading, UK Posts: 345	Re: The ultimate gas sensor At the moment it'll probably be unfeasable, however seeing as how we're only after O2 and CO2 the day will come when we have small, reliable, reasonable cost detectors for both O2 and CO2. Simon A
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16th June 2006, 23:19	#3 (permalink)
abowie Fighting Girl Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Land of Oz Posts: 574	Re: The ultimate gas sensor Looks clever. The obvious place to find these would be in the multigas analysers we use in anaesthesia. Another huge application market would be in industrial gas analysis. As yet I have not seen an anaesthetic gas analyser based on this sort of technology; we still use IR. There would be a huge fanfare if someone had made a mass spec unit; it is considered the gold standard. __________________ Andrew Bowie Rebreather-friendly Buddy
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20th June 2006, 17:59	#4 (permalink)
apitkin New Member Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land Posts: 104	Re: The ultimate gas sensor Of course, you remember we don't use IR for oxygen. Rapid-response oxygen analysis uses the paramagnetic principle. Now if only someone would build a compact low-power paramagnetic sensor that was no bigger than a fuel cell. Maybe something like this. Linear, doesn't need recalibrating, and pretty much lasts for ever. I'm guessing the main problem will be electromagnetic noise, e.g. from HID ballasts. Andy
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20th June 2006, 18:44	#5 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 2,111	Re: The ultimate gas sensor Quote: (Originally Posted by apitkin) Maybe something like this. Linear, doesn't need recalibrating, and pretty much lasts for ever. Interesting. its a 3cm cube (quite small). Possible negatives are that it needs 50ma @ 5v and a non condensing environment. Given that its output is serial uart, you're going to need to interface to that with suitable cabling/termination electronics. Still worth a look though, good find andy. __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! RBW Terms of service
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20th June 2006, 19:42	#6 (permalink)
jaap Normal people worry me Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 473	Re: The ultimate gas sensor Quote: (Originally Posted by apitkin) Of course, you remember we don't use IR for oxygen. Rapid-response oxygen analysis uses the paramagnetic principle. Now if only someone would build a compact low-power paramagnetic sensor that was no bigger than a fuel cell. Maybe something like this. Linear, doesn't need recalibrating, and pretty much lasts for ever. I'm guessing the main problem will be electromagnetic noise, e.g. from HID ballasts. Andy Hi AFAIK paramagnetic O2 sensors would not work in a Rebreather since the RB tends to move a lot while in use... We have a Servomex for O2 analysis by our fillstation and a friend has been evaluating various small paramagnetic sensors for Rebreather use, AFAIK none of them give reliable readings if you move them around slowly.
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24th June 2006, 03:44	#7 (permalink)
apitkin New Member Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land Posts: 104	Re: The ultimate gas sensor Quote: (Originally Posted by jaap) Hi AFAIK paramagnetic O2 sensors would not work in a Rebreather since the RB tends to move a lot while in use... We have a Servomex for O2 analysis by our fillstation and a friend has been evaluating various small paramagnetic sensors for Rebreather use, AFAIK none of them give reliable readings if you move them around slowly. Thanks. I just knew there had to be a catch.
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