Exhaust Valve Position

AM · 29th July 2008, 16:15

Aloha

I am re-working a homebuild design and interested in opinions about pros and cons of placing the exhaust valve on the lung or elsewhere on the unit.

I prefer the idea of being able to flush the lung but interested in hearing from anyone who has placed it elsewhere and why.

Regards

AnneMarie

**jmurba** · 5th August 2008, 23:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by AM)

Aloha

I am re-working a homebuild design and interested in opinions about pros and cons of placing the exhaust valve on the lung or elsewhere on the unit.

I prefer the idea of being able to flush the lung but interested in hearing from anyone who has placed it elsewhere and why.

Regards

AnneMarie

I anne marie,

wouaw a girl homebuilding a rebreather just great
I think that you don't have to touch your exhaust valve to be able to flush the loop, just use your nose for that it will be mutch efficient and quick.
so it really not something to consider to chose your exhaust valve location.

most of the time the exhaust valve are located at the top of the rebreather in order to reduce the work necessary to push gas out of the loop .

if the exhaust was located at the bottom of the breather one would spit out the mouthpiece under the pressure while going up because the difference of the pressure between the bottom and the top of the diver in upright position would too important.

in addition if the exhaust was at the back it would be more likely to be poluated with sorb dust then it is when located at the top.

you also have to chose to locat it in the exhalation part or in the inhalation part of the breather

ihmo the exhalation side is better cause it will dump gas charged of co2 in case you use it in a scr mode,

the problem in my case is the fact that my o2 injection point beeing to close to the exhaust valve when I go up it is useless to inject o2 cause it goes out straight away

so I have to stop injectec, breathe a bit and then go up again etc etc...

well you question is bith interresting and difficult to anwser.

where is your exhaust valve at the time ?

regards

jean mi

AM · 5th August 2008, 23:45

Bonjour

Many thanks for your reply. When I said flush I mean to flush water out, so the OPV is on the lung for now, but I have discussed this with a few people and got a few interesting but different answers.

You make an interesting point about placing the exhaust on the bottom of the unit, that point of view correlates with advice from several other people.

The lime dust, yes I do not want an exhaust too near the lime, I know of at least two rebreathers that have suffered in the past with lime grains/other material blocking OPV and resulting in flooding despite passing negative tests. I have long since abandoned the idea that passing pressure tests implies a rebreather will not leak.

I think yes the exhalation side so that water which is drained in there can be flushed out. It is quite unusual to flood the inhale side and this should be managed by moving any flood out of inhale side to exhale side and flushing it out then.

The O2 going out straight again is crazy but then you're a Frenchman, I've seen much worse from your compatriates!!

Do you have a pic of your unit?

Regards

AnneMarie

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba)

I anne marie,

wouaw a girl homebuilding a rebreather just great

I think that you don't have to touch your exhaust valve to be able to flush the loop, just use your nose for that it will be mutch efficient and quick.
so it really not something to consider to chose your exhaust valve location.

most of the time the exhaust valve are located at the top of the rebreather in order to reduce the work necessary to push gas out of the loop .

if the exhaust was located at the bottom of the breather one would spit out the mouthpiece under the pressure while going up because the difference of the pressure between the bottom and the top of the diver in upright position would too important.

in addition if the exhaust was at the back it would be more likely to be poluated with sorb dust then it is when located at the top.

you also have to chose to locat it in the exhalation part or in the inhalation part of the breather

ihmo the exhalation side is better cause it will dump gas charged of co2 in case you use it in a scr mode,

the problem in my case is the fact that my o2 injection point beeing to close to the exhaust valve when I go up it is useless to inject o2 cause it goes out straight away

so I have to stop injectec, breathe a bit and then go up again etc etc...

well you question is bith interresting and difficult to anwser.

where is your exhaust valve at the time ?

regards

jean mi

dave t · 6th August 2008, 00:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by AM)

Bonjour

Many thanks for your reply. When I said flush I mean to flush water out, so the OPV is on the lung for now, but I have discussed this with a few people and got a few interesting but different answers.

You make an interesting point about placing the exhaust on the bottom of the unit, that point of view correlates with advice from several other people.

The lime dust, yes I do not want an exhaust too near the lime, I know of at least two rebreathers that have suffered in the past with lime grains/other material blocking OPV and resulting in flooding despite passing negative tests. I have long since abandoned the idea that passing pressure tests implies a rebreather will not leak.

I think yes the exhalation side so that water which is drained in there can be flushed out. It is quite unusual to flood the inhale side and this should be managed by moving any flood out of inhale side to exhale side and flushing it out then.

The O2 going out straight again is crazy but then you're a Frenchman, I've seen much worse from your compatriates!!

Do you have a pic of your unit?

Regards

AnneMarie

isnt that what happens with the sport kiss as well? o2 add point right oposite the dump

you deffo want the dump on the exhale side.

I have tried it at the top works good if you have to ascend off the loop.

Tried it at the bottom, great for dumping water but not so good for acending off the loop.

Tried it in the middle of the lung (ots) and this where I prefer it for a good comprimise.

If its BMCL like mine its best at the bottom but you do have to use the mouthpiece for dumping if you ascend off the loop

Always a compromise!!!

**wedivebc** · 6th August 2008, 01:09

I am working on a BOB design and looking at bottom of CL for OPV. Only issue I see is CL must be quite full to get it to vent in the head up position otherwise I think it would vent too easily in trim or head down position

**jmurba** · 6th August 2008, 08:46

Hello Anne Marie,

Quote: (Originally Posted by AM)

Bonjour

Many thanks for your reply. When I said flush I mean to flush water out,

Hi, it must be because I've never exceeded 2 hours in the water (except one) or because I never have to perform long decos, but I've never felt the necessity of installing any deviced allowing me to pump the water out of my loop.
In the rare cases where I had water in my loop I aborted the dive and performed my ligth deco on oc whithout trying to get rid of the water.
however I think that technicaly good water traps are better then any dump system cause either the water intake come from a leak and then even if you pump a lot one will never be able to get rid of is , either the water comes from condensation and then well designed water trap are the best system.
If I really had to instal a dumping device I would install a tube going from the lowest water trap to a manual pump (like the outbord engines ones) situated outside the rebreather and ended with a good valve to be able to block the hose properly in case the pump non return valves get poluated and cease to perform their duty.
In my opinion and you seems to have the same, the exhaust valve must be givent the duty of dumping water out of the rebreather.
just for the fun of it I've tried many time to get upside down do dump water out of the rebreather and it did not work.

so the OPV is on the lung for now, but I have discussed this with a few people and got a few interesting but different answers.

as a matter of fact it is interresting where were you suggest to locate the exhaust ?

You make an interesting point about placing the exhaust on the bottom of the unit, that point of view correlates with advice from several other people.

I have read that in the famous book of jacques vettier, jacques is a guy who started modifiying rebreathers (an ida at the beginning) back in 2000 and who offers different strategies in the field of mccr his reasonnings are all really interresting , it may be interresting for you to read this book if you can read french.

I have long since abandoned the idea that passing pressure tests implies a rebreather will not leak.

I fully agree with you, I think that one of the main source of rebreather failures comes from the fact that we quickly perform the test and that it is not enough to prevent a leak during the dive.
one of my goal in rebreather home building is to reduce the number of parts simplifying the rebreather and finding configuration that allow the diver not to dissassemble the whole machine after each dive.
if you have a look to my amateur web page you will finf my humbles comments about all of that.
In fact I come from the hell in this field cause I've alway dived a dolphin that must be one of the worst rebreathers in terme of handeling, the parts are numerous, the rebreather does not stand, you have to lay it down and dip you hands in it to dissasssemble and assemble it...the parts are all made of plastic and one is likely to damage them because it is difficult to dissassemble and put everything back together..
so I had to din strategies to make it more human....

saying you want to have access to your exhaust valve made me think , and I think that it would be greate to find an exhaust valve that the diver would be able to manualy shut,

in case it leaks to diver could shut it blow his nose asdending, to be honest I rarely use the dump valve it is just a safety device to protect my ears nothing more cause when I ascend I flush before the dump valve open.
on the other hand getting rid of it would be dangerous.

I think yes the exhalation side so that water which is drained in there can be flushed out. It is quite unusual to flood the inhale side and this should be managed by moving any flood out of inhale side to exhale side and flushing it out then.

The O2 going out straight again is crazy but then you're a Frenchman, I've seen much worse from your compatriates!!

I am crazy...in addition I am french....bad mix....

in fact the o2 injection point was the result of the dolphin configuration, I did not want to drill the canister, and I did not want to inject in the inhalation bag, so the only choice I had what to inject o2 in the exhalation bag it was the worst...now I inject in the canister intake enter pipe (using a tecme pipe) it is a little better.
I resolve the problem by self education and by speaking with the numerous dolphin modifiyers back in time (dave bletso, kerry mc kenzie), during the ascent I only inject whine ihnaling to force the gas in the canister, and I only inject when I stop ascending, but I agree with you to say it is a weak point of this configuration maybe a small hose tranporting o2 in the sorb would be of interest.

Do you have a pic of your unit?

click on the link at the back of this page to see my site, sorry it is ugly and not optimized cause but it gives an idea.

Regards

AnneMarie

bonne journée

jean mi

**jmurba** · 6th August 2008, 09:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t)

isnt that what happens with the sport kiss as well? o2 add point right oposite the dump

you deffo want the dump on the exhale side.

I have tried it at the top works good if you have to ascend off the loop.

Tried it at the bottom, great for dumping water but not so good for acending off the loop.

Tried it in the middle of the lung (ots) and this where I prefer it for a good comprimise.

If its BMCL like mine its best at the bottom but you do have to use the mouthpiece for dumping if you ascend off the loop

Always a compromise!!!

wow you tested many configurations, great.
you are rigth saying that it is always a compromise...the ultimate configuration does not exists letting us hours and hours of discussion (((-:

dave t · 6th August 2008, 09:35

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba)

wow you tested many configurations, great.
you are rigth saying that it is always a compromise...the ultimate configuration does not exists letting us hours and hours of discussion (((-:

yes but its good fun to experiment right

Tautaz · 6th August 2008, 11:37

Hi Anne Marie, on my homemade (still under construction) I put the OPV on the exhale CL. It's look like a CK. Machining a threaded hole in the head for the OPV added to much money for my project so I prefered to put it on the CL on the lowest part of a MSR bag. Some photos are on RBW, if you want to see more feel free to ask for. Cheers. David

**jmurba** · 6th August 2008, 15:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t)

yes but its good fun to experiment right

I think that from the beginning my motivation has been the willing to be independant from the makers.
the habit to built home made parts came from my first bad experience with the draeger oxymeter, it drowned and I had to wait long to get it replaced and the new one only lasted a few months, so I said to myself "guy if you want to dive you have to built a couple of yourself you will be able to service and repair yourself.
this prevented me to buy a buddy insp in the late 90's cause it did not want to send it back in the UK for service in case of a problem.
I don't think I have make a better rig that I could have bougth on the market, unlike any home builder I don't think that my rebreather is a very good machine, but only that I know how it fits my needs cause I built it according to those needs.
it is not the pleasure to experiment that leads me, I just make common things most of the time I only "better" some parts in terms of easyness of handeling.
in addition I did not really change the dolphin architecture, the main components are still at their original location except the sensors, I just changed the shell (that built myself), changed the adv for a ray one , built a couple of digital ppo2 meters, and built a new sensor holder.
there is nothing to compare with real home buiders who have to design a whole new rig ...
regards
jean mi

29th July 2008, 16:15	#1 (permalink)
AM Banned Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Earth. Posts: 964	Exhaust Valve Position Aloha I am re-working a homebuild design and interested in opinions about pros and cons of placing the exhaust valve on the lung or elsewhere on the unit. I prefer the idea of being able to flush the lung but interested in hearing from anyone who has placed it elsewhere and why. Regards AnneMarie
(Offline)

5th August 2008, 23:08	#2 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 920	Re: Exhaust Valve Position Quote: (Originally Posted by AM) Aloha I am re-working a homebuild design and interested in opinions about pros and cons of placing the exhaust valve on the lung or elsewhere on the unit. I prefer the idea of being able to flush the lung but interested in hearing from anyone who has placed it elsewhere and why. Regards AnneMarie I anne marie, wouaw a girl homebuilding a rebreather just great I think that you don't have to touch your exhaust valve to be able to flush the loop, just use your nose for that it will be mutch efficient and quick. so it really not something to consider to chose your exhaust valve location. most of the time the exhaust valve are located at the top of the rebreather in order to reduce the work necessary to push gas out of the loop . if the exhaust was located at the bottom of the breather one would spit out the mouthpiece under the pressure while going up because the difference of the pressure between the bottom and the top of the diver in upright position would too important. in addition if the exhaust was at the back it would be more likely to be poluated with sorb dust then it is when located at the top. you also have to chose to locat it in the exhalation part or in the inhalation part of the breather ihmo the exhalation side is better cause it will dump gas charged of co2 in case you use it in a scr mode, the problem in my case is the fact that my o2 injection point beeing to close to the exhaust valve when I go up it is useless to inject o2 cause it goes out straight away so I have to stop injectec, breathe a bit and then go up again etc etc... well you question is bith interresting and difficult to anwser. where is your exhaust valve at the time ? regards jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
(Offline)

5th August 2008, 23:45	#3 (permalink)
AM Banned Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Earth. Posts: 964	Re: Exhaust Valve Position Bonjour Many thanks for your reply. When I said flush I mean to flush water out, so the OPV is on the lung for now, but I have discussed this with a few people and got a few interesting but different answers. You make an interesting point about placing the exhaust on the bottom of the unit, that point of view correlates with advice from several other people. The lime dust, yes I do not want an exhaust too near the lime, I know of at least two rebreathers that have suffered in the past with lime grains/other material blocking OPV and resulting in flooding despite passing negative tests. I have long since abandoned the idea that passing pressure tests implies a rebreather will not leak. I think yes the exhalation side so that water which is drained in there can be flushed out. It is quite unusual to flood the inhale side and this should be managed by moving any flood out of inhale side to exhale side and flushing it out then. The O2 going out straight again is crazy but then you're a Frenchman, I've seen much worse from your compatriates!! Do you have a pic of your unit? Regards AnneMarie Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba) I anne marie, wouaw a girl homebuilding a rebreather just great I think that you don't have to touch your exhaust valve to be able to flush the loop, just use your nose for that it will be mutch efficient and quick. so it really not something to consider to chose your exhaust valve location. most of the time the exhaust valve are located at the top of the rebreather in order to reduce the work necessary to push gas out of the loop . if the exhaust was located at the bottom of the breather one would spit out the mouthpiece under the pressure while going up because the difference of the pressure between the bottom and the top of the diver in upright position would too important. in addition if the exhaust was at the back it would be more likely to be poluated with sorb dust then it is when located at the top. you also have to chose to locat it in the exhalation part or in the inhalation part of the breather ihmo the exhalation side is better cause it will dump gas charged of co2 in case you use it in a scr mode, the problem in my case is the fact that my o2 injection point beeing to close to the exhaust valve when I go up it is useless to inject o2 cause it goes out straight away so I have to stop injectec, breathe a bit and then go up again etc etc... well you question is bith interresting and difficult to anwser. where is your exhaust valve at the time ? regards jean mi
(Offline)

6th August 2008, 00:26	#4 (permalink)
dave t RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts: 665	Re: Exhaust Valve Position Quote: (Originally Posted by AM) Bonjour Many thanks for your reply. When I said flush I mean to flush water out, so the OPV is on the lung for now, but I have discussed this with a few people and got a few interesting but different answers. You make an interesting point about placing the exhaust on the bottom of the unit, that point of view correlates with advice from several other people. The lime dust, yes I do not want an exhaust too near the lime, I know of at least two rebreathers that have suffered in the past with lime grains/other material blocking OPV and resulting in flooding despite passing negative tests. I have long since abandoned the idea that passing pressure tests implies a rebreather will not leak. I think yes the exhalation side so that water which is drained in there can be flushed out. It is quite unusual to flood the inhale side and this should be managed by moving any flood out of inhale side to exhale side and flushing it out then. The O2 going out straight again is crazy but then you're a Frenchman, I've seen much worse from your compatriates!! Do you have a pic of your unit? Regards AnneMarie isnt that what happens with the sport kiss as well? o2 add point right oposite the dump you deffo want the dump on the exhale side. I have tried it at the top works good if you have to ascend off the loop. Tried it at the bottom, great for dumping water but not so good for acending off the loop. Tried it in the middle of the lung (ots) and this where I prefer it for a good comprimise. If its BMCL like mine its best at the bottom but you do have to use the mouthpiece for dumping if you ascend off the loop Always a compromise!!!
(Offline)

6th August 2008, 01:09	#5 (permalink)
wedivebc Dave Tomblin Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver Island BC Canada Posts: 1,508	Re: Exhaust Valve Position I am working on a BOB design and looking at bottom of CL for OPV. Only issue I see is CL must be quite full to get it to vent in the head up position otherwise I think it would vent too easily in trim or head down position __________________ Cheers, Dave.... Man is the only animal burdened with the knowledge he will eventually die
(Online)

6th August 2008, 08:46	#6 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 920	Re: Exhaust Valve Position Hello Anne Marie, Quote: (Originally Posted by AM) Bonjour Many thanks for your reply. When I said flush I mean to flush water out, Hi, it must be because I've never exceeded 2 hours in the water (except one) or because I never have to perform long decos, but I've never felt the necessity of installing any deviced allowing me to pump the water out of my loop. In the rare cases where I had water in my loop I aborted the dive and performed my ligth deco on oc whithout trying to get rid of the water. however I think that technicaly good water traps are better then any dump system cause either the water intake come from a leak and then even if you pump a lot one will never be able to get rid of is , either the water comes from condensation and then well designed water trap are the best system. If I really had to instal a dumping device I would install a tube going from the lowest water trap to a manual pump (like the outbord engines ones) situated outside the rebreather and ended with a good valve to be able to block the hose properly in case the pump non return valves get poluated and cease to perform their duty. In my opinion and you seems to have the same, the exhaust valve must be givent the duty of dumping water out of the rebreather. just for the fun of it I've tried many time to get upside down do dump water out of the rebreather and it did not work. so the OPV is on the lung for now, but I have discussed this with a few people and got a few interesting but different answers. as a matter of fact it is interresting where were you suggest to locate the exhaust ? You make an interesting point about placing the exhaust on the bottom of the unit, that point of view correlates with advice from several other people. I have read that in the famous book of jacques vettier, jacques is a guy who started modifiying rebreathers (an ida at the beginning) back in 2000 and who offers different strategies in the field of mccr his reasonnings are all really interresting , it may be interresting for you to read this book if you can read french. I have long since abandoned the idea that passing pressure tests implies a rebreather will not leak. I fully agree with you, I think that one of the main source of rebreather failures comes from the fact that we quickly perform the test and that it is not enough to prevent a leak during the dive. one of my goal in rebreather home building is to reduce the number of parts simplifying the rebreather and finding configuration that allow the diver not to dissassemble the whole machine after each dive. if you have a look to my amateur web page you will finf my humbles comments about all of that. In fact I come from the hell in this field cause I've alway dived a dolphin that must be one of the worst rebreathers in terme of handeling, the parts are numerous, the rebreather does not stand, you have to lay it down and dip you hands in it to dissasssemble and assemble it...the parts are all made of plastic and one is likely to damage them because it is difficult to dissassemble and put everything back together.. so I had to din strategies to make it more human.... saying you want to have access to your exhaust valve made me think , and I think that it would be greate to find an exhaust valve that the diver would be able to manualy shut, in case it leaks to diver could shut it blow his nose asdending, to be honest I rarely use the dump valve it is just a safety device to protect my ears nothing more cause when I ascend I flush before the dump valve open. on the other hand getting rid of it would be dangerous. I think yes the exhalation side so that water which is drained in there can be flushed out. It is quite unusual to flood the inhale side and this should be managed by moving any flood out of inhale side to exhale side and flushing it out then. The O2 going out straight again is crazy but then you're a Frenchman, I've seen much worse from your compatriates!! I am crazy...in addition I am french....bad mix.... in fact the o2 injection point was the result of the dolphin configuration, I did not want to drill the canister, and I did not want to inject in the inhalation bag, so the only choice I had what to inject o2 in the exhalation bag it was the worst...now I inject in the canister intake enter pipe (using a tecme pipe) it is a little better. I resolve the problem by self education and by speaking with the numerous dolphin modifiyers back in time (dave bletso, kerry mc kenzie), during the ascent I only inject whine ihnaling to force the gas in the canister, and I only inject when I stop ascending, but I agree with you to say it is a weak point of this configuration maybe a small hose tranporting o2 in the sorb would be of interest. Do you have a pic of your unit? click on the link at the back of this page to see my site, sorry it is ugly and not optimized cause but it gives an idea. Regards AnneMarie bonne journée jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
(Offline)

6th August 2008, 09:26	#7 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 920	Re: Exhaust Valve Position Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t) isnt that what happens with the sport kiss as well? o2 add point right oposite the dump you deffo want the dump on the exhale side. I have tried it at the top works good if you have to ascend off the loop. Tried it at the bottom, great for dumping water but not so good for acending off the loop. Tried it in the middle of the lung (ots) and this where I prefer it for a good comprimise. If its BMCL like mine its best at the bottom but you do have to use the mouthpiece for dumping if you ascend off the loop Always a compromise!!! wow you tested many configurations, great. you are rigth saying that it is always a compromise...the ultimate configuration does not exists letting us hours and hours of discussion (((-: __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
(Offline)

6th August 2008, 09:35	#8 (permalink)
dave t RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts: 665	Re: Exhaust Valve Position Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba) wow you tested many configurations, great. you are rigth saying that it is always a compromise...the ultimate configuration does not exists letting us hours and hours of discussion (((-: yes but its good fun to experiment right
(Offline)

6th August 2008, 11:37	#9 (permalink)
Tautaz New Member Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Home Build Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Colomiers France Posts: 79	Re: Exhaust Valve Position Hi Anne Marie, on my homemade (still under construction) I put the OPV on the exhale CL. It's look like a CK. Machining a threaded hole in the head for the OPV added to much money for my project so I prefered to put it on the CL on the lowest part of a MSR bag. Some photos are on RBW, if you want to see more feel free to ask for. Cheers. David
(Offline)

6th August 2008, 15:28	#10 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 920	Re: Exhaust Valve Position Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t) yes but its good fun to experiment right I think that from the beginning my motivation has been the willing to be independant from the makers. the habit to built home made parts came from my first bad experience with the draeger oxymeter, it drowned and I had to wait long to get it replaced and the new one only lasted a few months, so I said to myself "guy if you want to dive you have to built a couple of yourself you will be able to service and repair yourself. this prevented me to buy a buddy insp in the late 90's cause it did not want to send it back in the UK for service in case of a problem. I don't think I have make a better rig that I could have bougth on the market, unlike any home builder I don't think that my rebreather is a very good machine, but only that I know how it fits my needs cause I built it according to those needs. it is not the pleasure to experiment that leads me, I just make common things most of the time I only "better" some parts in terms of easyness of handeling. in addition I did not really change the dolphin architecture, the main components are still at their original location except the sensors, I just changed the shell (that built myself), changed the adv for a ray one , built a couple of digital ppo2 meters, and built a new sensor holder. there is nothing to compare with real home buiders who have to design a whole new rig ... regards jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
(Offline)

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