O2 addition methods

divelermentov · 18th April 2008, 05:01

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba)

my first kiss dives attempts were done on the same orifice then the first gordon smith orifice, the IP for 0.8 lt/minute was 7 bars !!!

I dived it down to 50m without a shadow of a problem,

of course due to the fact that the orifice was not sonic anymore I had to face a flow rate cut but ok It still worked fine.

like gordon was saying "for the time one spend in 60m even a dil flush would be enough to maintain the ppo2 level"

what I mean is that the dogma of the sonic flow is too limiting.

if you read the jacques vettier book about rebreathers you will find out tests and charts showing that getting a sonic flow is nice but that the flow rate drop is not so dramatic when you get a bit under the 2.00 ratio.

the sonic depth is not an absolute limit under wich you will not have o2 anymore, it is more subtile then that, it can be exceeded.

personly I use an hydrogom with 11 bars for 0.8 lt/mn and dive it down to 65-70 m and I have never noticed any need for injecting manualy more often.

last thing, swagelock website provides a flow rate simulator where one can tests all of that, orifices and needlevalve have different reactions

regards

jean mi

you are right jean

you do not need sonic flow if your are prepared to work a bit more,
i just wanted to raise awareness that when you plan to build a hyprid your intention is normally that you rely on the eCCR to add some O2 form time to time. As the IP /ambient pressure ratio for the solenoide reduces at the same time the eCCR might not be able to inject suffcient amount of O2 into the loop anymore, depending on its cycle time. This could be dangerous as he might get used to teh eCCR taking over at shallower depth, and not realizing the solenoide not doing its job anymore, particlar when acscending form 50 meters forgetting to pump up the pO2 on ascend.

I am quite often ending at 55 meters, this would leave me only 1 bar ip over ambient, pretty slim.

**jmurba** · 18th April 2008, 05:24

Quote: (Originally Posted by divelermentov)

you are right jean

you do not need sonic flow if your are prepared to work a bit more,
i just wanted to raise awareness that when you plan to build a hyprid your intention is normally that you rely on the eCCR to add some O2 form time to time. As the IP /ambient pressure ratio for the solenoide reduces at the same time the eCCR might not be able to inject suffcient amount of O2 into the loop anymore, depending on its cycle time. This could be dangerous as he might get used to teh eCCR taking over at shallower depth, and not realizing the solenoide not doing its job anymore, particlar when acscending form 50 meters forgetting to pump up the pO2 on ascend.

I am quite often ending at 55 meters, this would leave me only 1 bar ip over ambient, pretty slim.

true

**jmurba** · 18th April 2008, 09:04

Quote: (Originally Posted by Packhorse)

I agree Jmurba.

Lots of silly ideas and questions are thrown around by those new to something. I should know I am new to RBs and moding them so have had some strange ideas. Some that turned out just plain stupid and some others that I later found out others have implemented very successfully.

Forums like this shouldnt be used to put people off modding but for steering them in the right direction.

Rebreatherworld (not the web site) as changed a lot.
When I first arrived in this world...a couple of years ago this world was only populated of Mk15's cis lunars and a couple of other very expensives machines reserved to a very narrow group of persons in this world mainly located in the USA.

the draeger atlantis had just been realeased.

the majority of the web discussions took place on the famous newdesign Email list.

We newbies, europeans just dared to come and ask a couple of questions, rebreather divers were like Appolo members for us.

But a couple of opened mind guys la dave sutton, dale bletso, kerry mc kenzie, gordon smith, tom rose dared to get into this hero world and see weather things could be done to make things easier cleared for everybody and feasible at home by anybody provided one have the implication needed to understand the more important things.

what is an o2 sensor, how to manage it , where to inject oxygen etc etc...

those guys dared to modify rebreather at home and to show what they had done for the greatest numbers of admiring newbies willing to understand.

One of those guys did the first cfm valve, gordon.

even after starting his business gordon was always here to help home buiders and has always kept this open mind behaviour.

all this movement pushed the manufacturers change the design of their machines to fit this trend.

people tanks to home builders felt like they could get in the rebreatherworld buying simpler and more affordable machines then the first ccr (cis, ccr200 etc etc).

In my opinion this home builder movments showed opened the divers the doors of the rebreatherworld,

it gave anyone the possibility of understanding the key point of rebreather design, the different choises made by different people openly.

then rebreathers suddenly became machines that anybody could understand, and that a certain of divers could modify to fit their needs or their purses.

What the hell would be the rebreatherworld now if sutton, rose, smith, bletso had not been here to say hey guy here is what I've done...it is f....g dangerouse but I did it and it works ?

what I mean is that homebuilder are not stupid guys not willing to pay for rebreather that only can be made by big companies.

Even buddy insp began in a garage,

the big companies are not the most present on the civil rebreather market, drager just abandonned sport divers, aqualung has not realed anything and stopped selling the dolphin and ray, there is mabye just omg in italy that have always kept on selling Rebreather's to civil divers... the rest of the rebreather makers are small companies often founded by ex home builders .

how big is hammerhead , how big is shearwater, how big is hs explorer, how big jetsam ?

they are not draeger , they don't have 50 ingineers working permanently on rebreather projets, they are experienced persons divers themself who certainly spent long hours in their garage or in their small professionnal workshops to make rebreatherworld what it is now.

this those fellows we have to thanks now, I am greatful and I know that if I have a rebreather every week en on my back it is thanks to them.

then when I reads things like , no need to try to compete with big companies that spent lots of money in expensives labo to issue perfect machines that can't be bettered I feel like to say that I don't agree.

even if you think that you are new to rebreathers, even if you think that there are mutch better machine then that you will ever be able to built at home, don't hesitate to try to understand what exactly happend in the machine, what choices are the bests and to wonder if the choises made by the makers of the machine you planned to buy have been good for you.

In addition I have to say that my country that used to be the country of freedom banned the homebuilds, the modified rebreather and all the american and canadian rebreathers non EC from diving centers.

It means one don't have the rigth to build a rebreather for him , put it on his back and dive with a diving center.

Home building like diving is a liberty and in france we lost a part of this liberty even if you can real "liberté egalité fraternité" on the front of our public buildings...

regards

jean mi

**Dave Sutton** · 18th April 2008, 11:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by seeboth)

i think Dave Sutton has posted on a Mccr that uses a depth compensating first stage and an orifice, and you just use the right orifice for the right depth, then just add more frequently when you are shallower to maintain your po2.

I have not: That is 180 degrees out of my suggestions.

I use blocked first stages for everything I build. I DO NOT suggest or support the use of non blocked first stages for mCCR "leaky valve" systems of any sort, orifice or needle valve. I'm not a needle valve fan either, and a search will come up with the posts that articulate my reasons.

And, not for nothing: You are making this WAY too complex. Just grab any small orifice, hook it up to a first stage, adjust the intermediate pressure to give you somewhere about 0.7 LPM and block off the first stage. Add 02 using a manual add valve as needed. Go diving. If I spent as much time thinking about this as some of you, I would never have built a thing.

Theory is only valid insofar as it reflect reality.

The reality is that this is butt-simple stuff to build.

Best,

Dave

.

**jmurba** · 18th April 2008, 12:48

I totaly agree,
I would simply add this is in the shalow zone that the diver need the max flow rate,
if one use a non fixed MP reg and tune the flow rate to be .80 ate max depth the flow will be next to nothing close to surface where hypoxia waits to trap you...
so simply don't do that,
if you forget injecting at depth it will take you long to get hypoxic, but close to surface or on your way out it will arrive mutch quicker.
some are diving non fixed first stages reg and needdle valves, but they REDUCE the flow rate going down and reopen on the way up, which is too complicated but mutch safer then tuning a reg mp so that at max depth the flow rate can't exceed the methabolic rate providing the diver to get this flow rate close to surface.
it is better to use a normal kiss orifice with fixed mp and to cope with the reduction of flow rate when you are a little bellow the sonic max depth.
for me it is like and automatic camera, one button is enough for me

regards

jean mi

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

I have not: That is 180 degrees out of my suggestions.

I use blocked first stages for everything I build. I DO NOT suggest or support the use of non blocked first stages for mCCR "leaky valve" systems of any sort, orifice or needle valve. I'm not a needle valve fan either, and a search will come up with the posts that articulate my reasons.

And, not for nothing: You are making this WAY too complex. Just grab any small orifice, hook it up to a first stage, adjust the intermediate pressure to give you somewhere about 0.7 LPM and block off the first stage. Add 02 using a manual add valve as needed. Go diving. If I spent as much time thinking about this as some of you, I would never have built a thing.

Theory is only valid insofar as it reflect reality.

The reality is that this is butt-simple stuff to build.

Best,

Dave

.

**jmurba** · 18th April 2008, 13:13

Quote: (Originally Posted by divelermentov)

you are right jean

you do not need sonic flow if your are prepared to work a bit more,
i just wanted to raise awareness that when you plan to build a hyprid your intention is normally that you rely on the eCCR to add some O2 form time to time. As the IP /ambient pressure ratio for the solenoide reduces at the same time the eCCR might not be able to inject suffcient amount of O2 into the loop anymore, depending on its cycle time. This could be dangerous as he might get used to teh eCCR taking over at shallower depth, and not realizing the solenoide not doing its job anymore, particlar when acscending form 50 meters forgetting to pump up the pO2 on ascend.

I am quite often ending at 55 meters, this would leave me only 1 bar ip over ambient, pretty slim.

hummm yes the reasonning it rigth,
this is the idea of hybridation itself that puzzled me a little bit , I did not think about it long enough to have a clear veiw of the problem.
an eccr must be checked
an mccr must be flown
in both case awarness is the key point
what about the eccr/mccr hybrid rebreather ???

I tend to think that with an hybrid one have a choice to make

-either diving it like a kiss and use the solenoid at a very low set point say 0.5 as a parachute trying not to let it do his job (but in this case how to be sure that it will work at the T time ? , the problem of all second parachutes)

-either diving it like an eccr with a normal set point say 1.2 thinking that it is good for the solenoid to work less and hopping that in case it does not inject for some reason the kiss flow rate will save the diver who will have lowed down his guard...

It seem complicated to me to be honest , but let's don't say it is totaly "stupid", I am sure that there is a strategy that could be worth to try.

I have always thought that using the solenoid like a parachute should be tested but like the double rebreather it would add a lot of workload.

regard

jean mi

**jmurba** · 18th April 2008, 14:07

[quote=seeboth;180028]

I would most likely start with the needle valve block since if i lock it in place it is essentially an orifice. Does any one have experience in making something like this. Ive seen them on rebreather world before. what is the product number for the swagelock needle valve used? and where is the manual inject part from, is it just a clipper valve from mcmaster carr?

quote]

Ive dived a dolphin kissed using a swagelock ss serie as a restrictor.
the valves was fed by a fixed mp regulator and was in the shell so that I could not manipulate it during the dive
It worked fine, I did not had any problem underwater and I usualy dived deeper the de sonic ratio.
but, it was complicated cause I did not have the manual addition valve and the swagelock needle valve on the same block made my rebreather look like a spagetti plate.
in addition after 3 years my needle tended to rust and I had to undo it and clean it more often that in the beginning.
I've changed for an hydrogom valve that is a dream ... verything in the hand, no clogging...happy man I am.
regards
jean mi

DanFountain · 18th April 2008, 14:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba)

Rebreatherworld (not the web site) as changed a lot.
When I first arrived in this world...a couple of years ago this world was only populated of Mk15's cis lunars and a couple of other very expensives machines reserved to a very narrow group of persons in this world mainly located in the USA.

(Body of a great post deleted...)

jean mi

Jean Michel,

Thanks for the memory trip! I remember when Gordon's early KISS was featured on the rebreather list. For those who advocate factory-built vs. home-built rebreathers, take a look at KISS rebreather. Now is that a homebuilt, - or is it a prototype of a highly successful commercial design?

Dan

J. V. · 18th April 2008, 14:49

Quote:

the sonic depth is not an absolute limit under wich you will not have o2 anymore, it is more subtile then that, it can be exceeded.
personly I use an hydrogom with 11 bars for 0.8 lt/mn and dive it down to 65-70 m and I have never noticed any need for injecting manualy more often.

Sure. As you know, with my IDA and my first rEvo, IP around 11 bar, I often dove up to 110 m. Yes, at 110 m there is no flow, no O2 manual injection, so what, there is alway manual dil injection.
To dive deeper, we have made a special batch of rEvo with IP around 14.5 bar, which extand dive possibility up to145 m, and make it easy in the 100/120 m range.

**jmurba** · 18th April 2008, 14:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by DanFountain)

Jean Michel,

Thanks for the memory trip! I remember when Gordon's early KISS was featured on the rebreather list. For those who advocate factory-built vs. home-built rebreathers, take a look at KISS rebreather. Now is that a homebuilt, - or is it a prototype of a highly successful commercial design?

Dan

Hi Dan,

you are welcome,
I had not visited his page for many years now,
I perfectly remember the time when we all discovered the kiss principe.
I remeber when MK15 owner where posting saying it is incredible to see how stable the ppo2 is at constant depth with a so simple injection device.
nice story.
an evidence of the evident profits of home builder work.
let's don't forget that many industrial sucess began in garages not only in the rebreather field but also in others technical fields>.
regards
jean mi

18th April 2008, 05:01	#31 (permalink)
divelermentov Nutty dentist - uwdriller Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: Auckland Posts: 586	Re: O2 addition methods Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba) my first kiss dives attempts were done on the same orifice then the first gordon smith orifice, the IP for 0.8 lt/minute was 7 bars !!! I dived it down to 50m without a shadow of a problem, of course due to the fact that the orifice was not sonic anymore I had to face a flow rate cut but ok It still worked fine. like gordon was saying "for the time one spend in 60m even a dil flush would be enough to maintain the ppo2 level" what I mean is that the dogma of the sonic flow is too limiting. if you read the jacques vettier book about rebreathers you will find out tests and charts showing that getting a sonic flow is nice but that the flow rate drop is not so dramatic when you get a bit under the 2.00 ratio. the sonic depth is not an absolute limit under wich you will not have o2 anymore, it is more subtile then that, it can be exceeded. personly I use an hydrogom with 11 bars for 0.8 lt/mn and dive it down to 65-70 m and I have never noticed any need for injecting manualy more often. last thing, swagelock website provides a flow rate simulator where one can tests all of that, orifices and needlevalve have different reactions regards jean mi you are right jean you do not need sonic flow if your are prepared to work a bit more, i just wanted to raise awareness that when you plan to build a hyprid your intention is normally that you rely on the eCCR to add some O2 form time to time. As the IP /ambient pressure ratio for the solenoide reduces at the same time the eCCR might not be able to inject suffcient amount of O2 into the loop anymore, depending on its cycle time. This could be dangerous as he might get used to teh eCCR taking over at shallower depth, and not realizing the solenoide not doing its job anymore, particlar when acscending form 50 meters forgetting to pump up the pO2 on ascend. I am quite often ending at 55 meters, this would leave me only 1 bar ip over ambient, pretty slim. __________________ May The Sorb Be With You
(Offline)

18th April 2008, 05:24	#32 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 659	Re: O2 addition methods Quote: (Originally Posted by divelermentov) you are right jean you do not need sonic flow if your are prepared to work a bit more, i just wanted to raise awareness that when you plan to build a hyprid your intention is normally that you rely on the eCCR to add some O2 form time to time. As the IP /ambient pressure ratio for the solenoide reduces at the same time the eCCR might not be able to inject suffcient amount of O2 into the loop anymore, depending on its cycle time. This could be dangerous as he might get used to teh eCCR taking over at shallower depth, and not realizing the solenoide not doing its job anymore, particlar when acscending form 50 meters forgetting to pump up the pO2 on ascend. I am quite often ending at 55 meters, this would leave me only 1 bar ip over ambient, pretty slim. true __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
(Offline)

18th April 2008, 09:04	#33 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 659	Re: O2 addition methods Quote: (Originally Posted by Packhorse) I agree Jmurba. Lots of silly ideas and questions are thrown around by those new to something. I should know I am new to RBs and moding them so have had some strange ideas. Some that turned out just plain stupid and some others that I later found out others have implemented very successfully. Forums like this shouldnt be used to put people off modding but for steering them in the right direction. Rebreatherworld (not the web site) as changed a lot. When I first arrived in this world...a couple of years ago this world was only populated of Mk15's cis lunars and a couple of other very expensives machines reserved to a very narrow group of persons in this world mainly located in the USA. the draeger atlantis had just been realeased. the majority of the web discussions took place on the famous newdesign Email list. We newbies, europeans just dared to come and ask a couple of questions, rebreather divers were like Appolo members for us. But a couple of opened mind guys la dave sutton, dale bletso, kerry mc kenzie, gordon smith, tom rose dared to get into this hero world and see weather things could be done to make things easier cleared for everybody and feasible at home by anybody provided one have the implication needed to understand the more important things. what is an o2 sensor, how to manage it , where to inject oxygen etc etc... those guys dared to modify rebreather at home and to show what they had done for the greatest numbers of admiring newbies willing to understand. One of those guys did the first cfm valve, gordon. even after starting his business gordon was always here to help home buiders and has always kept this open mind behaviour. all this movement pushed the manufacturers change the design of their machines to fit this trend. people tanks to home builders felt like they could get in the rebreatherworld buying simpler and more affordable machines then the first ccr (cis, ccr200 etc etc). In my opinion this home builder movments showed opened the divers the doors of the rebreatherworld, it gave anyone the possibility of understanding the key point of rebreather design, the different choises made by different people openly. then rebreathers suddenly became machines that anybody could understand, and that a certain of divers could modify to fit their needs or their purses. What the hell would be the rebreatherworld now if sutton, rose, smith, bletso had not been here to say hey guy here is what I've done...it is f....g dangerouse but I did it and it works ? what I mean is that homebuilder are not stupid guys not willing to pay for rebreather that only can be made by big companies. Even buddy insp began in a garage, the big companies are not the most present on the civil rebreather market, drager just abandonned sport divers, aqualung has not realed anything and stopped selling the dolphin and ray, there is mabye just omg in italy that have always kept on selling Rebreather's to civil divers... the rest of the rebreather makers are small companies often founded by ex home builders . how big is hammerhead , how big is shearwater, how big is hs explorer, how big jetsam ? they are not draeger , they don't have 50 ingineers working permanently on rebreather projets, they are experienced persons divers themself who certainly spent long hours in their garage or in their small professionnal workshops to make rebreatherworld what it is now. this those fellows we have to thanks now, I am greatful and I know that if I have a rebreather every week en on my back it is thanks to them. then when I reads things like , no need to try to compete with big companies that spent lots of money in expensives labo to issue perfect machines that can't be bettered I feel like to say that I don't agree. even if you think that you are new to rebreathers, even if you think that there are mutch better machine then that you will ever be able to built at home, don't hesitate to try to understand what exactly happend in the machine, what choices are the bests and to wonder if the choises made by the makers of the machine you planned to buy have been good for you. In addition I have to say that my country that used to be the country of freedom banned the homebuilds, the modified rebreather and all the american and canadian rebreathers non EC from diving centers. It means one don't have the rigth to build a rebreather for him , put it on his back and dive with a diving center. Home building like diving is a liberty and in france we lost a part of this liberty even if you can real "liberté egalité fraternité" on the front of our public buildings... regards jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
(Offline)

18th April 2008, 11:45	#34 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,464	Re: O2 addition methods Quote: (Originally Posted by seeboth) i think Dave Sutton has posted on a Mccr that uses a depth compensating first stage and an orifice, and you just use the right orifice for the right depth, then just add more frequently when you are shallower to maintain your po2. I have not: That is 180 degrees out of my suggestions. I use blocked first stages for everything I build. I DO NOT suggest or support the use of non blocked first stages for mCCR "leaky valve" systems of any sort, orifice or needle valve. I'm not a needle valve fan either, and a search will come up with the posts that articulate my reasons. And, not for nothing: You are making this WAY too complex. Just grab any small orifice, hook it up to a first stage, adjust the intermediate pressure to give you somewhere about 0.7 LPM and block off the first stage. Add 02 using a manual add valve as needed. Go diving. If I spent as much time thinking about this as some of you, I would never have built a thing. Theory is only valid insofar as it reflect reality. The reality is that this is butt-simple stuff to build. Best, Dave . __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled. Last edited by Dave Sutton : 18th April 2008 at 11:52.
(Offline)

18th April 2008, 12:48	#35 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 659	Re: O2 addition methods I totaly agree, I would simply add this is in the shalow zone that the diver need the max flow rate, if one use a non fixed MP reg and tune the flow rate to be .80 ate max depth the flow will be next to nothing close to surface where hypoxia waits to trap you... so simply don't do that, if you forget injecting at depth it will take you long to get hypoxic, but close to surface or on your way out it will arrive mutch quicker. some are diving non fixed first stages reg and needdle valves, but they REDUCE the flow rate going down and reopen on the way up, which is too complicated but mutch safer then tuning a reg mp so that at max depth the flow rate can't exceed the methabolic rate providing the diver to get this flow rate close to surface. it is better to use a normal kiss orifice with fixed mp and to cope with the reduction of flow rate when you are a little bellow the sonic max depth. for me it is like and automatic camera, one button is enough for me regards jean mi Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) I have not: That is 180 degrees out of my suggestions. I use blocked first stages for everything I build. I DO NOT suggest or support the use of non blocked first stages for mCCR "leaky valve" systems of any sort, orifice or needle valve. I'm not a needle valve fan either, and a search will come up with the posts that articulate my reasons. And, not for nothing: You are making this WAY too complex. Just grab any small orifice, hook it up to a first stage, adjust the intermediate pressure to give you somewhere about 0.7 LPM and block off the first stage. Add 02 using a manual add valve as needed. Go diving. If I spent as much time thinking about this as some of you, I would never have built a thing. Theory is only valid insofar as it reflect reality. The reality is that this is butt-simple stuff to build. Best, Dave . __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
(Offline)

18th April 2008, 13:13	#36 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 659	Re: O2 addition methods Quote: (Originally Posted by divelermentov) you are right jean you do not need sonic flow if your are prepared to work a bit more, i just wanted to raise awareness that when you plan to build a hyprid your intention is normally that you rely on the eCCR to add some O2 form time to time. As the IP /ambient pressure ratio for the solenoide reduces at the same time the eCCR might not be able to inject suffcient amount of O2 into the loop anymore, depending on its cycle time. This could be dangerous as he might get used to teh eCCR taking over at shallower depth, and not realizing the solenoide not doing its job anymore, particlar when acscending form 50 meters forgetting to pump up the pO2 on ascend. I am quite often ending at 55 meters, this would leave me only 1 bar ip over ambient, pretty slim. hummm yes the reasonning it rigth, this is the idea of hybridation itself that puzzled me a little bit , I did not think about it long enough to have a clear veiw of the problem. an eccr must be checked an mccr must be flown in both case awarness is the key point what about the eccr/mccr hybrid rebreather ??? I tend to think that with an hybrid one have a choice to make -either diving it like a kiss and use the solenoid at a very low set point say 0.5 as a parachute trying not to let it do his job (but in this case how to be sure that it will work at the T time ? , the problem of all second parachutes) -either diving it like an eccr with a normal set point say 1.2 thinking that it is good for the solenoid to work less and hopping that in case it does not inject for some reason the kiss flow rate will save the diver who will have lowed down his guard... It seem complicated to me to be honest , but let's don't say it is totaly "stupid", I am sure that there is a strategy that could be worth to try. I have always thought that using the solenoid like a parachute should be tested but like the double rebreather it would add a lot of workload. regard jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
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18th April 2008, 14:07	#37 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 659	Re: O2 addition methods [quote=seeboth;180028] I would most likely start with the needle valve block since if i lock it in place it is essentially an orifice. Does any one have experience in making something like this. Ive seen them on rebreather world before. what is the product number for the swagelock needle valve used? and where is the manual inject part from, is it just a clipper valve from mcmaster carr? quote] Ive dived a dolphin kissed using a swagelock ss serie as a restrictor. the valves was fed by a fixed mp regulator and was in the shell so that I could not manipulate it during the dive It worked fine, I did not had any problem underwater and I usualy dived deeper the de sonic ratio. but, it was complicated cause I did not have the manual addition valve and the swagelock needle valve on the same block made my rebreather look like a spagetti plate. in addition after 3 years my needle tended to rust and I had to undo it and clean it more often that in the beginning. I've changed for an hydrogom valve that is a dream ... verything in the hand, no clogging...happy man I am. regards jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
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18th April 2008, 14:39	#38 (permalink)
DanFountain New Member Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Lake Superior Posts: 99	Re: O2 addition methods Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba) Rebreatherworld (not the web site) as changed a lot. When I first arrived in this world...a couple of years ago this world was only populated of Mk15's cis lunars and a couple of other very expensives machines reserved to a very narrow group of persons in this world mainly located in the USA. (Body of a great post deleted...) jean mi Jean Michel, Thanks for the memory trip! I remember when Gordon's early KISS was featured on the rebreather list. For those who advocate factory-built vs. home-built rebreathers, take a look at KISS rebreather. Now is that a homebuilt, - or is it a prototype of a highly successful commercial design? Dan __________________ Try not. Do - or do not. There is no try. -Yoda
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18th April 2008, 14:49	#39 (permalink)
J. V. Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet rEvo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lot & Savoie Posts: 231	Re: O2 addition methods Quote: the sonic depth is not an absolute limit under wich you will not have o2 anymore, it is more subtile then that, it can be exceeded. personly I use an hydrogom with 11 bars for 0.8 lt/mn and dive it down to 65-70 m and I have never noticed any need for injecting manualy more often. Sure. As you know, with my IDA and my first rEvo, IP around 11 bar, I often dove up to 110 m. Yes, at 110 m there is no flow, no O2 manual injection, so what, there is alway manual dil injection. To dive deeper, we have made a special batch of rEvo with IP around 14.5 bar, which extand dive possibility up to145 m, and make it easy in the 100/120 m range. __________________ -------------------- Jacques NPSFQQA-EDS IT # 007 (remué non agité)
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18th April 2008, 14:55	#40 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 659	Re: O2 addition methods Quote: (Originally Posted by DanFountain) Jean Michel, Thanks for the memory trip! I remember when Gordon's early KISS was featured on the rebreather list. For those who advocate factory-built vs. home-built rebreathers, take a look at KISS rebreather. Now is that a homebuilt, - or is it a prototype of a highly successful commercial design? Dan Hi Dan, you are welcome, I had not visited his page for many years now, I perfectly remember the time when we all discovered the kiss principe. I remeber when MK15 owner where posting saying it is incredible to see how stable the ppo2 is at constant depth with a so simple injection device. nice story. an evidence of the evident profits of home builder work. let's don't forget that many industrial sucess began in garages not only in the rebreather field but also in others technical fields>. regards jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
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