Anyone up to “no good” with design ideas?

Crazyduck · 19th September 2005, 22:17

Damn your fast today!

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Someone (in the UK) has claimed that he has done it to his Classic-KISS, but mentioned that it wasn't cost-effective for him to offer it commercially.

Since no one has seen said device AFAIK, I don't know how true it is...

As you are a KISS owner, you could search the KISS Yahoo list archive to read the details. It was a couple of years back.

decoweenie · 19th September 2005, 22:27

Quote: (Originally Posted by Crazyduck)

Damn your fast today!

Can't sleep...

Anyway, a little more personal experience about the aforementioned Porex...

I have found exactly what you said above about the cross-section-area of the flow in relation to the WOB.

On the MK-15-series, the surface of the disks is huge. The scrubber is doughnut-shape and the disks cover such area in entirety. Therefore, it is easy to breath thru the disks.

The next application I used was the smaller doughnut-shape of the Classic-KISS scrubber. The WOB wasn't as good as on the MK-15, but dive-able for me. I used the disks on the CK scrubber for close to 400 dives (?).

So of course when I got the Sport-KISS, I wanted to use it to prevent the sorb dust from getting to the inhalation hose. Since it is difficult to "stuff" a rigid disk into the SK scrubber opening and still able to completely cover the opening, I tried to cut a small 1.5" diameter disk of the Porex and installed it in the red sensor pod.

I can't even breath from it floating 6" under the water in the pool.

So the Porex used definitely has a threshhold surface area-to-WOB, and this ratio is probably different for different people since "WOB" is generally subjective unless when measured and compared imperically.

KISSit! · 19th September 2005, 23:36

In particular I had seen this product by GE: http://www.osmolabstore.com/OsmoLabP...dPage&1&1&1021 which boasts that it is "impervious to liquid" but the pore size on it is tiny, it would be an interesting experiment to try. DecoWeenie, how did you go about installing the hydrophobic membranes? do you try to line the entire scrubber, or do you just make caps for the tops and bottoms?

ben

Crazyduck · 20th September 2005, 03:44

With all respect you are going to be breathing THROUGH this material.

I did not see any statements or standards for human use, not trying to be a pain in the ass but careful as you go.

Porex is not perfect either with specical cleaning required, because it can become clogged over time.

I found a really unquie idea for a warming material but you should have seen the cost- holy crap it was expensive.

Good luck with that and ask for the lab results for using as a media for breathing through- you should get some interesting commentary back if they do not hang up the phone.

Your almost as bad as me wanting to call NASA to ask what the EVA suits outer material is.

Yeah i know NUTS.

KISSit! · 20th September 2005, 04:02

Aw come on, it's not that bad of an idea is it? I was just toying around with it... ok so maybe it is a bit hairbrained. who wants to test it first?

montyg · 22nd September 2005, 14:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by Crazyduck)

What material are folks using for their scrubber cans?

Can’t use PVC, or certain plastics like delrin!

May I ask why you can't use PVC or Delrin ?

Crazyduck · 22nd September 2005, 15:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by montyg)

May I ask why you can't use PVC or Delrin ?

Both of those materials off gas within the breathing loop and result in the diver breathing gases. You want to talk about getting high--- no need for narcosis you breathe the plastic fumes and woooohhhh buddy.

US Navy does not allow either material to be used because of off gasing into the breathing loop. That should say something.

Its not exactly something everyone one holds to... persononal choice.

I am trying to keep brain cells these days....

Hope that this makes sense.

Andrew

bgpartri · 22nd September 2005, 16:32

Quote: (Originally Posted by Crazyduck)

US Navy does not allow either material to be used because of off gasing into the breathing loop.

Andrew

I'm curious. What's your source for that statement?

Crazyduck · 22nd September 2005, 17:04

Quote: (Originally Posted by bgpartri)

I'm curious. What's your source for that statement?

Hey Bruce,

Good Morning Sir.
I am a big fan of your Shearwater Controller for the Meg. Thank you for contributing to the rebreather market.

Good point-
I was told this by another Closed Circuit Diver and I took it for gospel.

If you feel that the statement is wrong then my apologies and it’s my fault for not checking the statement.

However for the source- the buck stops here with me; for making the statement in an open forum.

Best Regards, Andrew

bgpartri · 22nd September 2005, 17:19

Quote: (Originally Posted by Crazyduck)

Hey Bruce,

If you feel that the statement is wrong then my apologies and it’s my fault for not checking the statement.

Best Regards, Andrew

No appologies necessary. I just thought it was misinformation and wondered if it was documented.

19th September 2005, 22:17	#21 (permalink)
Crazyduck Underwater Mechanic Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TEXAS, Dallas/ Ft.Worth Posts: 720	Damn your fast today! Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Someone (in the UK) has claimed that he has done it to his Classic-KISS, but mentioned that it wasn't cost-effective for him to offer it commercially. Since no one has seen said device AFAIK, I don't know how true it is... As you are a KISS owner, you could search the KISS Yahoo list archive to read the details. It was a couple of years back.
(Offline)

19th September 2005, 22:27	#22 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Quote: (Originally Posted by Crazyduck) Damn your fast today! Can't sleep... Anyway, a little more personal experience about the aforementioned Porex... I have found exactly what you said above about the cross-section-area of the flow in relation to the WOB. On the MK-15-series, the surface of the disks is huge. The scrubber is doughnut-shape and the disks cover such area in entirety. Therefore, it is easy to breath thru the disks. The next application I used was the smaller doughnut-shape of the Classic-KISS scrubber. The WOB wasn't as good as on the MK-15, but dive-able for me. I used the disks on the CK scrubber for close to 400 dives (?). So of course when I got the Sport-KISS, I wanted to use it to prevent the sorb dust from getting to the inhalation hose. Since it is difficult to "stuff" a rigid disk into the SK scrubber opening and still able to completely cover the opening, I tried to cut a small 1.5" diameter disk of the Porex and installed it in the red sensor pod. I can't even breath from it floating 6" under the water in the pool. So the Porex used definitely has a threshhold surface area-to-WOB, and this ratio is probably different for different people since "WOB" is generally subjective unless when measured and compared imperically. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
(Offline)

19th September 2005, 23:36	#23 (permalink)
KISSit! New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sea-Town Posts: 29	In particular I had seen this product by GE: http://www.osmolabstore.com/OsmoLabP...dPage&1&1&1021 which boasts that it is "impervious to liquid" but the pore size on it is tiny, it would be an interesting experiment to try. DecoWeenie, how did you go about installing the hydrophobic membranes? do you try to line the entire scrubber, or do you just make caps for the tops and bottoms? ben
(Offline)

20th September 2005, 03:44	#24 (permalink)
Crazyduck Underwater Mechanic Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TEXAS, Dallas/ Ft.Worth Posts: 720	With all respect you are going to be breathing THROUGH this material. I did not see any statements or standards for human use, not trying to be a pain in the ass but careful as you go. Porex is not perfect either with specical cleaning required, because it can become clogged over time. I found a really unquie idea for a warming material but you should have seen the cost- holy crap it was expensive. Good luck with that and ask for the lab results for using as a media for breathing through- you should get some interesting commentary back if they do not hang up the phone. Your almost as bad as me wanting to call NASA to ask what the EVA suits outer material is. Yeah i know NUTS.
(Offline)

20th September 2005, 04:02	#25 (permalink)
KISSit! New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sea-Town Posts: 29	Aw come on, it's not that bad of an idea is it? I was just toying around with it... ok so maybe it is a bit hairbrained. who wants to test it first?
(Offline)

22nd September 2005, 14:48	#26 (permalink)
montyg Monty Guest Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Cape Town, South Africa Posts: 242	Quote: (Originally Posted by Crazyduck) What material are folks using for their scrubber cans? Can’t use PVC, or certain plastics like delrin! May I ask why you can't use PVC or Delrin ?
(Offline)

22nd September 2005, 15:56	#27 (permalink)
Crazyduck Underwater Mechanic Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TEXAS, Dallas/ Ft.Worth Posts: 720	Quote: (Originally Posted by montyg) May I ask why you can't use PVC or Delrin ? Both of those materials off gas within the breathing loop and result in the diver breathing gases. You want to talk about getting high--- no need for narcosis you breathe the plastic fumes and woooohhhh buddy. US Navy does not allow either material to be used because of off gasing into the breathing loop. That should say something. Its not exactly something everyone one holds to... persononal choice. I am trying to keep brain cells these days.... Hope that this makes sense. Andrew
(Offline)

22nd September 2005, 16:32	#28 (permalink)
bgpartri CEO-Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Titan Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 423	Quote: (Originally Posted by Crazyduck) US Navy does not allow either material to be used because of off gasing into the breathing loop. Andrew I'm curious. What's your source for that statement? __________________ http://www.shearwaterresearch.com Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment.
(Offline)

22nd September 2005, 17:04	#29 (permalink)
Crazyduck Underwater Mechanic Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TEXAS, Dallas/ Ft.Worth Posts: 720	Quote: (Originally Posted by bgpartri) I'm curious. What's your source for that statement? Hey Bruce, Good Morning Sir. I am a big fan of your Shearwater Controller for the Meg. Thank you for contributing to the rebreather market. Good point- I was told this by another Closed Circuit Diver and I took it for gospel. If you feel that the statement is wrong then my apologies and it’s my fault for not checking the statement. However for the source- the buck stops here with me; for making the statement in an open forum. Best Regards, Andrew
(Offline)

22nd September 2005, 17:19	#30 (permalink)
bgpartri CEO-Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Titan Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 423	Quote: (Originally Posted by Crazyduck) Hey Bruce, If you feel that the statement is wrong then my apologies and it’s my fault for not checking the statement. Best Regards, Andrew No appologies necessary. I just thought it was misinformation and wondered if it was documented. __________________ http://www.shearwaterresearch.com Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment.
(Offline)

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