lumberg connectors...

**jmurba** · 5th October 2007, 17:27

Hi all,

A little story for those who would have the same bad idea then me.
I'be been for years trying to better my home made oxymeter.

As many in the french community, and as a couple of makers I decided to use a lumberg IP69 rated câble connector....

the cable is cheap and as it been used by a friends as deep as 180m in a cave (sorry not to metion who and where) I said to myself it seems to be ok.

the data sheet say IP 69 ip 69 is 100 bars...

a couple of days ago I had one of the sensor saying 0.00 once back on the boat after a 1.30 shalow 40m dive

I check the connector anr noticed the cable was not sitcked or welded anymore to the plug...

so I phoned radio spares, asked for the IP 69 cable for 100 bars.. they tolds ok fine order this one , I recived 4 cables/connectors sets...

to be sure I took one and cut it to fing out what was inside this system that I usualy depend on

have a look to the pics...

there the cable is not stick and not welded to the plastic plug but only forced in...

never the less I did a good 30 dives at max 60m with the first cable before the first symptoms appeard...

there is absolutely no oring anywhere to prevent water to get into the connector....

well I will use an other solution...but what I wanted to point out is that builders must not only rely on data sheets....

don't hesitate to destroy a connector to finf out what is there inside...

what sort of connectors do you use ?

I don't want to make any kitchen potting or use non detachable cable using cable glands or things like that I want a disconnectable cable/connector.

regards

teksimple · 5th October 2007, 18:02

Thanks for that! Very interesting! Personally, I don't understand the reason why a lot of rebreathers use connectors and cables that were *designed* for the food and beverage industry. An ocean-rated connector and cable is completely different than one made to survive intermittent steam-cleaning. I guess it is just about cost. I figure replacing the connector frequently is more expensive in time and frustration than buying one that was designed to go extreme depths in the ocean.

I have experience with Impulse wet plug connectors, to depths of thousands of meters on oceanographic instruments. Replacing all my current cables and connectors with ocean-rated wet plug connectors would not be cheap!

**jmurba** · 5th October 2007, 22:17

Quote: (Originally Posted by teksimple)

Thanks for that! Very interesting! Personally, I don't understand the reason why a lot of rebreathers use connectors and cables that were *designed* for the food and beverage industry. An ocean-rated connector and cable is completely different than one made to survive intermittent steam-cleaning. I guess it is just about cost. I figure replacing the connector frequently is more expensive in time and frustration than buying one that was designed to go extreme depths in the ocean.

I have experience with Impulse wet plug connectors, to depths of thousands of meters on oceanographic instruments. Replacing all my current cables and connectors with ocean-rated wet plug connectors would not be cheap!

thanks for info
Did you try this type of connectors with underwater oxymeters ?
the problem I see is that the smalest electrical leak is likely to cause a drift in ppo2 reading
a leak that would not be a problem for an underwater camera or a pump or wathever could be problem for a very weak sensor signal to be mesured .
regards
don't you thinks so ?
jean mi

caver99 · 6th October 2007, 00:16

Saludos,

the biggest problem is that most people overlook the real „value“ of the IP classification!

Sorry for the English…hope you understand that.

IP= Ingress Protection
The numer shows the level of protection, for underwater use IP86 is the highest

All classification up to IP 68 are clear.

And all of these are based on WATER !!!
Example: IP 67 means, this connection is tested and proofed to be in WATER at 1m of depth for 30 min.! Not more not less.
And it must be WATER, nothing else

IP 68 is not that clear in definition of norms!
It says nothing about the pressure and the time, but clear is it is tested in WATER and of course deeper than IP 67 !! Nothing else
Most manufactures specify their products, tested 10 bar 1 hour, or tested 15 bar 1 hour or what ever.
Some go much higher, See always manufactures specification.
The Lumberg Cables I used are guaranteed for example IP68, 10bar unlimited (means around 100 meter of depth unlimited time)

IP 69K is made only for the food industry and most important point. It is NOT based on WATER, but on specific food liquids!
And the test is done different!!
The connection/Part will be sprayed with the fluid, from a distance of aprox 10 to 15cm max with a pressure of 8 to 10kPa
While the parts is sprayed it is rotating in different angles (0°, 30° ,60 °90°, changing every 30 seconds the angle. (hmmm not sure right now wich rotaion speed....but not important....)
The fluids are maybe milk, beer or wine (!!!), vinegar or what ever is food grade liquid.

MORE important
IP 69K does NOT automatically implement the connection/part has also IP68!!!!!!!!!!! This most people do forget and thing higher IP better…Sorry NO!
If it has IP68 it has to be stated extra, like..Product XY, Specs.: IP68 AND IP69K

So what we learn.
Even IP 68………always ask for detailed specification for your needs!

Greetings
Martin

teksimple · 6th October 2007, 07:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba)

the smalest electrical leak is likely to cause a drift in ppo2 reading a leak that would not be a problem for an underwater camera or a pump or wathever could be problem for a very weak sensor signal to be mesured .
regards
don't you thinks so ?
jean mi

Very good point! I am not sure of the signal loss for mv applications with a wet connector, but obviously that is important. In fact, I recall that all of the mv-output sensors like light meters we used on oceanographic ships used Bendix connectors or other *NON*-wet plugs, or we had A2D converters to send the signals via RS-232, etc. I am sure digital has been thought over many, many times before for rebreathers, but that would take away the simplicity.

**jmurba** · 6th October 2007, 16:26

Salut martin,
good to Read U here down...
You are right IP does not mean mutch and we have to read the data sheets and ask the makers.
interresting that ip 69K is used for food fluids , I had read 69K connectors were designed for transport....the internet is not always a reliable source of information ...
all of that is neither easy nor clear.....
I cutted all the lumberg plugs I bought including the IP68 ones...same story, the cable is not glued and not welded to the plug plastic body...

here is what I am gonna use now...

there is a cable gland to get into the connector.

I'll tell all what it is like.

regards

jean mi

Quote: (Originally Posted by caver99)

Saludos,

the biggest problem is that most people overlook the real „value“ of the IP classification!

Sorry for the English…hope you understand that.

IP= Ingress Protection
The numer shows the level of protection, for underwater use IP86 is the highest

All classification up to IP 68 are clear.

And all of these are based on WATER !!!
Example: IP 67 means, this connection is tested and proofed to be in WATER at 1m of depth for 30 min.! Not more not less.
And it must be WATER, nothing else

IP 68 is not that clear in definition of norms!
It says nothing about the pressure and the time, but clear is it is tested in WATER and of course deeper than IP 67 !! Nothing else
Most manufactures specify their products, tested 10 bar 1 hour, or tested 15 bar 1 hour or what ever.
Some go much higher, See always manufactures specification.
The Lumberg Cables I used are guaranteed for example IP68, 10bar unlimited (means around 100 meter of depth unlimited time)

IP 69K is made only for the food industry and most important point. It is NOT based on WATER, but on specific food liquids!
And the test is done different!!
The connection/Part will be sprayed with the fluid, from a distance of aprox 10 to 15cm max with a pressure of 8 to 10kPa
While the parts is sprayed it is rotating in different angles (0°, 30° ,60 °90°, changing every 30 seconds the angle. (hmmm not sure right now wich rotaion speed....but not important....)
The fluids are maybe milk, beer or wine (!!!), vinegar or what ever is food grade liquid.

MORE important
IP 69K does NOT automatically implement the connection/part has also IP68!!!!!!!!!!! This most people do forget and thing higher IP better…Sorry NO!
If it has IP68 it has to be stated extra, like..Product XY, Specs.: IP68 AND IP69K

So what we learn.
Even IP 68………always ask for detailed specification for your needs!

Greetings
Martin

DepthCharge · 6th October 2007, 20:21

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba)

Salut martin,
good to Read U here down...
You are right IP does not mean mutch and we have to read the data sheets and ask the makers.
interresting that ip 69K is used for food fluids , I had read 69K connectors were designed for transport....the internet is not always a reliable source of information ...
all of that is neither easy nor clear.....
I cutted all the lumberg plugs I bought including the IP68 ones...same story, the cable is not glued and not welded to the plug plastic body...

here is what I am gonna use now...

there is a cable gland to get into the connector.

I'll tell all what it is like.

regards

jean mi

jean mi,
What make are these connectors? Also what do they cost?

**jmurba** · 6th October 2007, 20:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by DepthCharge)

jean mi,
What make are these connectors? Also what do they cost?

go there Radiospares : composants électroniques et composants électriques and write 508-5343 on the search box you will find those connectors.
reagards

jean mi

**jmurba** · 6th October 2007, 21:04

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba)

go there Radiospares : composants électroniques et composants électriques and write 508-5343 on the search box you will find those connectors.
reagards

jean mi

I don't know what will be he results with this connector, the thing is that the watter won't get in the connector thanks to the cable gland.
as this part of the cable is ambiant pressure it should work...we will see...

regards

jean mi

Stephane · 6th October 2007, 21:13

Salut Jean-Mi,

Tu vas bien? (are you doing OK?)

I've been given a Hydro-Space Engineering cell holder and they use a Fischer 103 series connector. What they do is to pot the connexions with what I would guess to be epoxy glue (Araldite). There is also a cable gland so water can't come in.
I can make a photo if you want.

5th October 2007, 18:02	#2 (permalink)
teksimple RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Haifa Street, Baghdad Posts: 514	Re: lumberg connectors... Thanks for that! Very interesting! Personally, I don't understand the reason why a lot of rebreathers use connectors and cables that were designed for the food and beverage industry. An ocean-rated connector and cable is completely different than one made to survive intermittent steam-cleaning. I guess it is just about cost. I figure replacing the connector frequently is more expensive in time and frustration than buying one that was designed to go extreme depths in the ocean. I have experience with Impulse wet plug connectors, to depths of thousands of meters on oceanographic instruments. Replacing all my current cables and connectors with ocean-rated wet plug connectors would not be cheap! __________________ ---- _____________ "I don't know the percentage of the Internet that's valid, do you? Jesus, it's scary." - Hunter S. Thompson Last edited by teksimple : 5th October 2007 at 18:18.
(Offline)

5th October 2007, 22:17	#3 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 920	Re: lumberg connectors... Quote: (Originally Posted by teksimple) Thanks for that! Very interesting! Personally, I don't understand the reason why a lot of rebreathers use connectors and cables that were designed for the food and beverage industry. An ocean-rated connector and cable is completely different than one made to survive intermittent steam-cleaning. I guess it is just about cost. I figure replacing the connector frequently is more expensive in time and frustration than buying one that was designed to go extreme depths in the ocean. I have experience with Impulse wet plug connectors, to depths of thousands of meters on oceanographic instruments. Replacing all my current cables and connectors with ocean-rated wet plug connectors would not be cheap! thanks for info Did you try this type of connectors with underwater oxymeters ? the problem I see is that the smalest electrical leak is likely to cause a drift in ppo2 reading a leak that would not be a problem for an underwater camera or a pump or wathever could be problem for a very weak sensor signal to be mesured . regards don't you thinks so ? jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
(Offline)

6th October 2007, 00:16	#4 (permalink)
caver99 RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Dolphin Azimuth Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other CCR Dolphin Azimuth Other SCR Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Philippines, Germany Posts: 62	Re: lumberg connectors... Saludos, the biggest problem is that most people overlook the real „value“ of the IP classification! Sorry for the English…hope you understand that. *IP= Ingress Protection* The numer shows the level of protection, for underwater use IP86 is the highest All classification up to IP 68 are clear. And all of these are based on WATER !!! Example: IP 67 means, this connection is tested and proofed to be in WATER at 1m of depth for 30 min.! Not more not less. And it must be WATER, nothing else IP 68 is not that clear in definition of norms! It says nothing about the pressure and the time, but clear is it is tested in WATER and of course deeper than IP 67 !! Nothing else Most manufactures specify their products, tested 10 bar 1 hour, or tested 15 bar 1 hour or what ever. Some go much higher, See always manufactures specification. The Lumberg Cables I used are guaranteed for example IP68, 10bar unlimited (means around 100 meter of depth unlimited time) IP 69K is made only for the food industry and most important point. It is NOT based on WATER, but on specific food liquids! And the test is done different!! The connection/Part will be sprayed with the fluid, from a distance of aprox 10 to 15cm max with a pressure of 8 to 10kPa While the parts is sprayed it is rotating in different angles (0°, 30° ,60 °90°, changing every 30 seconds the angle. (hmmm not sure right now wich rotaion speed....but not important....) The fluids are maybe milk, beer or wine (!!!), vinegar or what ever is food grade liquid. MORE important IP 69K does NOT automatically implement the connection/part has also IP68!!!!!!!!!!! This most people do forget and thing higher IP better…Sorry NO! If it has IP68 it has to be stated extra, like..Product XY, Specs.: IP68 AND IP69K So what we learn. Even IP 68………always ask for detailed specification for your needs! Greetings Martin Last edited by caver99 : 6th October 2007 at 00:20. Reason: add on
(Offline)

6th October 2007, 07:52	#5 (permalink)
teksimple RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Haifa Street, Baghdad Posts: 514	Re: lumberg connectors... Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba) the smalest electrical leak is likely to cause a drift in ppo2 reading a leak that would not be a problem for an underwater camera or a pump or wathever could be problem for a very weak sensor signal to be mesured . regards don't you thinks so ? jean mi Very good point! I am not sure of the signal loss for mv applications with a wet connector, but obviously that is important. In fact, I recall that all of the mv-output sensors like light meters we used on oceanographic ships used Bendix connectors or other NON-wet plugs, or we had A2D converters to send the signals via RS-232, etc. I am sure digital has been thought over many, many times before for rebreathers, but that would take away the simplicity. __________________ ---- _____________ "I don't know the percentage of the Internet that's valid, do you? Jesus, it's scary." - Hunter S. Thompson
(Offline)

6th October 2007, 16:26	#6 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 920	Re: lumberg connectors... Salut martin, good to Read U here down... You are right IP does not mean mutch and we have to read the data sheets and ask the makers. interresting that ip 69K is used for food fluids , I had read 69K connectors were designed for transport....the internet is not always a reliable source of information ... all of that is neither easy nor clear..... I cutted all the lumberg plugs I bought including the IP68 ones...same story, the cable is not glued and not welded to the plug plastic body... here is what I am gonna use now... there is a cable gland to get into the connector. I'll tell all what it is like. regards jean mi Quote: (Originally Posted by caver99) Saludos, the biggest problem is that most people overlook the real „value“ of the IP classification! Sorry for the English…hope you understand that. *IP= Ingress Protection* The numer shows the level of protection, for underwater use IP86 is the highest All classification up to IP 68 are clear. And all of these are based on WATER !!! Example: IP 67 means, this connection is tested and proofed to be in WATER at 1m of depth for 30 min.! Not more not less. And it must be WATER, nothing else IP 68 is not that clear in definition of norms! It says nothing about the pressure and the time, but clear is it is tested in WATER and of course deeper than IP 67 !! Nothing else Most manufactures specify their products, tested 10 bar 1 hour, or tested 15 bar 1 hour or what ever. Some go much higher, See always manufactures specification. The Lumberg Cables I used are guaranteed for example IP68, 10bar unlimited (means around 100 meter of depth unlimited time) IP 69K is made only for the food industry and most important point. It is NOT based on WATER, but on specific food liquids! And the test is done different!! The connection/Part will be sprayed with the fluid, from a distance of aprox 10 to 15cm max with a pressure of 8 to 10kPa While the parts is sprayed it is rotating in different angles (0°, 30° ,60 °90°, changing every 30 seconds the angle. (hmmm not sure right now wich rotaion speed....but not important....) The fluids are maybe milk, beer or wine (!!!), vinegar or what ever is food grade liquid. MORE important IP 69K does NOT automatically implement the connection/part has also IP68!!!!!!!!!!! This most people do forget and thing higher IP better…Sorry NO! If it has IP68 it has to be stated extra, like..Product XY, Specs.: IP68 AND IP69K So what we learn. Even IP 68………always ask for detailed specification for your needs! Greetings Martin __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
(Offline)

6th October 2007, 20:21	#7 (permalink)
DepthCharge New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: upstate NY Posts: 234	Re: lumberg connectors... Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba) Salut martin, good to Read U here down... You are right IP does not mean mutch and we have to read the data sheets and ask the makers. interresting that ip 69K is used for food fluids , I had read 69K connectors were designed for transport....the internet is not always a reliable source of information ... all of that is neither easy nor clear..... I cutted all the lumberg plugs I bought including the IP68 ones...same story, the cable is not glued and not welded to the plug plastic body... here is what I am gonna use now... there is a cable gland to get into the connector. I'll tell all what it is like. regards jean mi jean mi, What make are these connectors? Also what do they cost? __________________ Later, John It's better to beg forgiveness than ask permission
(Offline)

6th October 2007, 20:59	#8 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 920	Re: lumberg connectors... Quote: (Originally Posted by DepthCharge) jean mi, What make are these connectors? Also what do they cost? go there Radiospares : composants électroniques et composants électriques and write 508-5343 on the search box you will find those connectors. reagards jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
(Offline)

6th October 2007, 21:04	#9 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 920	Re: lumberg connectors... Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba) go there Radiospares : composants électroniques et composants électriques and write 508-5343 on the search box you will find those connectors. reagards jean mi I don't know what will be he results with this connector, the thing is that the watter won't get in the connector thanks to the cable gland. as this part of the cable is ambiant pressure it should work...we will see... regards jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
(Offline)

6th October 2007, 21:13	#10 (permalink)
Stephane Stéphane Acounis Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nantes - France Posts: 788	Re: lumberg connectors... Salut Jean-Mi, Tu vas bien? (are you doing OK?) I've been given a Hydro-Space Engineering cell holder and they use a Fischer 103 series connector. What they do is to pot the connexions with what I would guess to be epoxy glue (Araldite). There is also a cable gland so water can't come in. I can make a photo if you want. __________________ Stéphane
(Offline)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode