Quick and dirty IDA-71 KISSing

jaap · 15th August 2007, 02:02

Spent last sunday making and testing a very quick and dirty mccr-KISS conversion of my IDA-71.

The idea was to not spend much time and zero extra money on it, and to not make any irreversible changes on the IDA-71.

First thing was to remove the left scrubber and its fittings into the bag. Ok, I don't know how to retie the string that secures the fittings so that part is sort of an irreversibel change.

A plug with a hose coming from the KISS-valve was inserted and secured in the passage to the exhale side. I then stuffed and secured a cellholder and plug with two O2-cells into the passage to the inhale bag (feeding the rEvodream HUD/Display).

Unscrewing the small plate on the uppe left corner of the IDA I used the hole to have a gauge and hoses to the KISS-valve exit the chassis.

A steel 2,5 liter O2-filled cylinder with regulator took the former space of the left scrubber. Since the unit is so butt heavy and the breathing bag is way oversized I put it in valve up. The O2-valve cannot be axcessed once the lid is closed. I did not care about that for this quick and dirty run.

The small cylinder on the right that is normally filled with O2 was now the diluent since it feeds the ADV. There was a small unused space under the scrubber so an airfilled alu 0.6l campingbottle took a seat there, just to get some extra (perhaps imaginary) lift around the butt

To finish the work inside the chassis I stuffed some sheets of lead around the sides of the breathing bag, topping off with a good large sheet of lead resting down over around the top of the bag. Sort of like a very crude hydrostatic imbalance compensator

.

Since I'm a chicken the ordinary IDA-DSV was replaced by a Divematics BOV.
Staying with the theme of making as few alterations as possible the original harness stayed in place. The attachment points on the right side was used for a 7l cylinder feeding the BOV via CEJN-connector and my suit.

The pO2-display was elegantly taped to the original IDA-gauge (now dil) and hug from its russian style D-ring. The HUD cable was taped on along the breathing hose. The KISS-valve and O2-gauge was held by the left breathing hose strap.

So how did it dive?
Using a very rich diluent and being a chicken I did not venture deeper than 15m for the testdive. WOB was very nice and the trim OK, given the load of lead and valve up arrangement. There was still even a bit to much bag left to breath from so one could steal even more bagspace.

Using the original harness the drysuit inflator was just high enough to stick up over the breast plate. An annoying thing was that it started to gurgle quite a lot after 20 min or so, making my way back and going to standing depth carefully moving around in every conciveable position I could _not_ make it feed me any liquid to the mouth

!!? (Yes perhaps mad,I have already had a couple of cocktails in the past...)

Back on land the scrubber and bag only held a miniscule amount of water, but there was perhaps a spoonful or so in the exhale hose. The long and rather narrow IDA-71 hoses are probably good for producing the gurgle noise even with little water.

Anyway, the dil cylinder was filled with O2 (an extra precaution) and I went in for some scrubber testing. Finning around really hard at 4-6 m like a madman for around 20 min. No sign of CO2 issues. To finish it off I swam into a slope just by the shore finning against it until my legs couldn't stand it anymore. Either I'm not very fit or the scrubber worked nicely (a least shallow and in warm water). I chose to use the square scrubber since I like its longer path, large filling opening and dual serial compartment layout (built in "dump half it" of rEvostyle feature

).

Next time I will perhaps take it a bit deeper (with a buddy) and test the switching action of the hip mounted "nitroxmodule" (perhaps with some light trimix in it

) and evaluate the scrubber a bit deeper.

I don't think I will dive this unit much since converting it to a regular use rebreather would force me to make some irreversible changes. But one never knows...

If someone would look into converting an IDA-71 into a single scrubber-Rebreather one neat thing could be to use a 3l-steel cylinder on the right side, but valve up. Making a hole for the valve knob. Another one could fit on the right too but then one would really have to make new bag(s), perhaps not too bad since I don't like all the internal hosing. But hey is it still and IDA-71 if you end up with only keeping the chassis

Arrgh! Was just thinking to write something short an post a pic. But then I ended up blabbering this much.

Anyway here is the pic

carcharodon1957 · 15th August 2007, 07:32

Hello JAAP,

well done and nice job

Bernard

**Dave Sutton** · 15th August 2007, 13:25

Goods job, and another testiment to the basic fitness of the IDA-71 as a conversion platform. Well done also on using the square scrubber. Did you use a screen at the opening of the scrubber to keep the "gas reversal path" free of granules?

I can draw a drawing of how to re-tie the thread for replacing the fitting. It's the same knot we use for tying around the end of speargun rubbers to hold the wire that loops onto the spear shaft (called a "Constrictor Hitch"). Use waxed dental floss. I'll try to find a webite with a good description of the knot, it's very easy to do, just impossible to explain in words.

Dave

jaap · 15th August 2007, 14:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

Goods job, and another testiment to the basic fitness of the IDA-71 as a conversion platform. Well done also on using the square scrubber. Did you use a screen at the opening of the scrubber to keep the "gas reversal path" free of granules?

I can draw a drawing of how to re-tie the thread for replacing the fitting. It's the same knot we use for tying around the end of speargun rubbers to hold the wire that loops onto the spear shaft (called a "Constrictor Hitch"). Use waxed dental floss. I'll try to find a webite with a good description of the knot, it's very easy to do, just impossible to explain in words.

Dave

Hi Dave

Yes, used a screen. Cut some approx 20mm thick white 3M floor polishing pads to size (Idea from Duncan Price). These pads are really nice since they have a low WOB even when wet and still trap dust & sorb. They also have some limited but useful spring like behaviour when compacted. A word of warning: Other colors or makes can be stiffer or contain a polishing medium...
The white 3M pads are supposed to be free of such additives.

Have pads in the top _and_ bottom of the scrubber since I use the finer Molecular Sorb. The little rods are too small for the regular metallic mesh in the scrubber.

"gas reversal path"

Yes, the small holes near the opening are covered by the pad. Just to make one thing clear. There is really no flow of gas in the thin double walls of square scrubber. The small opening are only in one end of it and only serve to comunicate gas into it to creat an insulating layer around the outside. So its not like in the oval or round IDA-scrubbers. The breathing path is down one channel making a turn and then back up the other. At least thats what I figure.

Thanks for the tip about the knot. Didn't reflect much about it, vulcanizing tape and a clamp works. But I do have a book on knots. Shold have a look and see if its in there.

undrh2o · 21st August 2007, 07:27

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

Goods job, and another testiment to the basic fitness of the IDA-71 as a conversion platform. Well done also on using the square scrubber. Did you use a screen at the opening of the scrubber to keep the "gas reversal path" free of granules?

I can draw a drawing of how to re-tie the thread for replacing the fitting. It's the same knot we use for tying around the end of speargun rubbers to hold the wire that loops onto the spear shaft (called a "Constrictor Hitch"). Use waxed dental floss. I'll try to find a webite with a good description of the knot, it's very easy to do, just impossible to explain in words.

Dave

how about this? Knot Knowledge - Constrictor Hitch

jmhardingjr · 21st August 2007, 16:48

The fittings on my IDA-59 were whipped in place. They had the same whipping knot that you'd see holding the end of a rope together or lashing old time harpoon heads on or making a cord grip for a knife.

See the pdf file attached. The American style whipping was the one I found in my IDA-59 fittings.

Jay

zepp · 21st August 2007, 18:00

Look good JAAP. Maybe you should be a 'bit' more careful with your title though..."KISSing", should it not say "HYDROGOMing"?

I am loking for a 2.5 ltr steel for my IDA but havent been able to aquire on as yet.

jaap · 21st August 2007, 18:53

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmhardingjr)

The fittings on my IDA-59 were whipped in place. They had the same whipping knot that you'd see holding the end of a rope together or lashing old time harpoon heads on or making a cord grip for a knife.

See the pdf file attached. The American style whipping was the one I found in my IDA-59 fittings.

Jay

Yes got my knot book out and found the same thing. Thanks anyway.

Quote: (Originally Posted by zepp)

Look good JAAP. Maybe you should be a 'bit' more careful with your title though..."KISSing", should it not say "HYDROGOMing"?

I am loking for a 2.5 ltr steel for my IDA but havent been able to aquire on as yet.

Yes, the units needs a lot of weight in the top so using the Hydrogom certainly helps

Cylinders like the one inside the IDA used to be pretty common around here. I have a few of them (and need them). They were/are originally used as std cylinders for small O2-therapy kits or for small escape units. Or for small volumes of gas for labwork. Have also seen them in Germany.

The downside with this exact type of cylinder is the small konical tape sealed cylinder thread. Not ideal if you want to open them regularily and a bit more fiddle to make a proper seal.

If it helps I could try and get a few for you (No CE-mark so hydro could prove difficult outside Sweden).

Packhorse · 26th January 2008, 02:37

What are the diamentions of the tank you used. I have a 2L ali and wonder if it will fit inside a IDA 71 valve, reg and all.
Its 120mm wide by 400mm long inc valve.

jaap · 26th January 2008, 19:33

Quote: (Originally Posted by Packhorse)

What are the diamentions of the tank you used. I have a 2L ali and wonder if it will fit inside a IDA 71 valve, reg and all.
Its 120mm wide by 400mm long inc valve.

The yellow 2.5l steel is about 500 mm long inc valve with a 90 mm diam.

I'm quite sure your cylinder will fit given that you accept that it intrudes on the CL. It did some testing with a flat bottom 2l ali that is about 450 mm inc valve and about 110 mm diam and it fits nicely with a _little_ extra room on the diam.

15th August 2007, 07:32	#2 (permalink)
carcharodon1957 RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: switzerland Posts: 106	Re: Quick and dirty IDA-71 KISSing Hello JAAP, well done and nice job Bernard
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15th August 2007, 13:25	#3 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,907	Re: Quick and dirty IDA-71 KISSing Goods job, and another testiment to the basic fitness of the IDA-71 as a conversion platform. Well done also on using the square scrubber. Did you use a screen at the opening of the scrubber to keep the "gas reversal path" free of granules? I can draw a drawing of how to re-tie the thread for replacing the fitting. It's the same knot we use for tying around the end of speargun rubbers to hold the wire that loops onto the spear shaft (called a "Constrictor Hitch"). Use waxed dental floss. I'll try to find a webite with a good description of the knot, it's very easy to do, just impossible to explain in words. Dave __________________ "Silent Diving with No Bubbles and No Politics".... www.nobubblediving.com
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15th August 2007, 14:25	#4 (permalink)
jaap Normal people worry me Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 473	Re: Quick and dirty IDA-71 KISSing Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) Goods job, and another testiment to the basic fitness of the IDA-71 as a conversion platform. Well done also on using the square scrubber. Did you use a screen at the opening of the scrubber to keep the "gas reversal path" free of granules? I can draw a drawing of how to re-tie the thread for replacing the fitting. It's the same knot we use for tying around the end of speargun rubbers to hold the wire that loops onto the spear shaft (called a "Constrictor Hitch"). Use waxed dental floss. I'll try to find a webite with a good description of the knot, it's very easy to do, just impossible to explain in words. Dave Hi Dave Yes, used a screen. Cut some approx 20mm thick white 3M floor polishing pads to size (Idea from Duncan Price). These pads are really nice since they have a low WOB even when wet and still trap dust & sorb. They also have some limited but useful spring like behaviour when compacted. A word of warning: Other colors or makes can be stiffer or contain a polishing medium... The white 3M pads are supposed to be free of such additives. Have pads in the top _and_ bottom of the scrubber since I use the finer Molecular Sorb. The little rods are too small for the regular metallic mesh in the scrubber. "gas reversal path" Yes, the small holes near the opening are covered by the pad. Just to make one thing clear. There is really no flow of gas in the thin double walls of square scrubber. The small opening are only in one end of it and only serve to comunicate gas into it to creat an insulating layer around the outside. So its not like in the oval or round IDA-scrubbers. The breathing path is down one channel making a turn and then back up the other. At least thats what I figure. Thanks for the tip about the knot. Didn't reflect much about it, vulcanizing tape and a clamp works. But I do have a book on knots. Shold have a look and see if its in there. __________________ My initials: JAAP
(Offline)

21st August 2007, 07:27	#5 (permalink)
undrh2o Chris Miller Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 206	Re: Quick and dirty IDA-71 KISSing Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) Goods job, and another testiment to the basic fitness of the IDA-71 as a conversion platform. Well done also on using the square scrubber. Did you use a screen at the opening of the scrubber to keep the "gas reversal path" free of granules? I can draw a drawing of how to re-tie the thread for replacing the fitting. It's the same knot we use for tying around the end of speargun rubbers to hold the wire that loops onto the spear shaft (called a "Constrictor Hitch"). Use waxed dental floss. I'll try to find a webite with a good description of the knot, it's very easy to do, just impossible to explain in words. Dave how about this? Knot Knowledge - Constrictor Hitch
(Offline)

21st August 2007, 18:00	#7 (permalink)
zepp "Dyson with Death" daddy Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: midlands Posts: 284	Re: Quick and dirty IDA-71 KISSing Look good JAAP. Maybe you should be a 'bit' more careful with your title though..."KISSing", should it not say "HYDROGOMing"? I am loking for a 2.5 ltr steel for my IDA but havent been able to aquire on as yet. __________________ I'm not a bad person.....HONEST my homebuild photos http://www.rebreatherworld.com/photo...ery.php/cat/48 CLASSIC KISS #052/shearwater The Dyson is back
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21st August 2007, 18:53	#8 (permalink)
jaap Normal people worry me Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 473	Re: Quick and dirty IDA-71 KISSing Quote: (Originally Posted by jmhardingjr) The fittings on my IDA-59 were whipped in place. They had the same whipping knot that you'd see holding the end of a rope together or lashing old time harpoon heads on or making a cord grip for a knife. See the pdf file attached. The American style whipping was the one I found in my IDA-59 fittings. Jay Yes got my knot book out and found the same thing. Thanks anyway. Quote: (Originally Posted by zepp) Look good JAAP. Maybe you should be a 'bit' more careful with your title though..."KISSing", should it not say "HYDROGOMing"? I am loking for a 2.5 ltr steel for my IDA but havent been able to aquire on as yet. Yes, the units needs a lot of weight in the top so using the Hydrogom certainly helps Cylinders like the one inside the IDA used to be pretty common around here. I have a few of them (and need them). They were/are originally used as std cylinders for small O2-therapy kits or for small escape units. Or for small volumes of gas for labwork. Have also seen them in Germany. The downside with this exact type of cylinder is the small konical tape sealed cylinder thread. Not ideal if you want to open them regularily and a bit more fiddle to make a proper seal. If it helps I could try and get a few for you (No CE-mark so hydro could prove difficult outside Sweden). __________________ My initials: JAAP
(Offline)

26th January 2008, 02:37	#9 (permalink)
Packhorse Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Auckland New Zealand Posts: 106	Re: Quick and dirty IDA-71 KISSing What are the diamentions of the tank you used. I have a 2L ali and wonder if it will fit inside a IDA 71 valve, reg and all. Its 120mm wide by 400mm long inc valve. __________________ There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
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26th January 2008, 19:33	#10 (permalink)
jaap Normal people worry me Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 473	Re: Quick and dirty IDA-71 KISSing Quote: (Originally Posted by Packhorse) What are the diamentions of the tank you used. I have a 2L ali and wonder if it will fit inside a IDA 71 valve, reg and all. Its 120mm wide by 400mm long inc valve. The yellow 2.5l steel is about 500 mm long inc valve with a 90 mm diam. I'm quite sure your cylinder will fit given that you accept that it intrudes on the CL. It did some testing with a flat bottom 2l ali that is about 450 mm inc valve and about 110 mm diam and it fits nicely with a _little_ extra room on the diam. __________________ My initials: JAAP
(Offline)

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