Backplate and BC for IDA-71

Mossyback · 31st May 2007, 02:56

And yet another question.

I've been doing some pool dives on 100% O2 with my IDA-71. There are several things that I want to change/improve but I'll deal with them one at a time on this forum.

The Russian harness works but leaves a lot to be desired. Also I'd like to have a BC integrated with it. I've searched the archives but have come up empty.

What do you folks who dive this unit use?

Hank

GKAM · 31st May 2007, 05:14

I used to have a Travel Backplate and a 40lb wing both from OxyCheq.

About a year ago, I switched to a soft A-pack lite and It is SUPER comfortable.

Plus, it brings the unit even closer to my back making breathing extremely comfortable.

Basically, you can modify the IDA71 chasis by adding 2xM8 screws so you can add any BP or harness you like. It makes the unit quite modular.

Thx,
GKAM

montyg · 31st May 2007, 06:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mossyback)

The Russian harness works but leaves a lot to be desired. Also I'd like to have a BC integrated with it. I've searched the archives but have come up empty.

What do you folks who dive this unit use?

Hank

2 of us here in Cape Town use the OxyCheq O-Pac on our IDA-71's and it works a treat. It's almost like it was *made to fit an IDA* ;-)

Can post picts if you'd like...

rgds
monty

**Dave Sutton** · 31st May 2007, 10:25

(1): Never use a Backplate. Keep the rig close to your back. Add a plate and WOB goes *way* up.

(2): Bolt on any of the soft harnesses and you'll be happy. The above suggestions are all good ones.

(3): Try using the original harness for a while.... they grow on you. Remove the stainless plate on the front and see how you like it. In the end I liked it better than the other solutions.

Dave

undrh2o · 31st May 2007, 17:00

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

(1): Never use a Backplate. Keep the rig close to your back. Add a plate and WOB goes *way* up.

(2): Bolt on any of the soft harnesses and you'll be happy. The above suggestions are all good ones.

(3): Try using the original harness for a while.... they grow on you. Remove the stainless plate on the front and see how you like it. In the end I liked it better than the other solutions.

Dave

With the original harness what did you use for buoyancy? Your drysuit?

**Dave Sutton** · 31st May 2007, 18:58

Quote: (Originally Posted by undrh2o)

With the original harness what did you use for buoyancy? Your drysuit?

With a wetsuit: Just like every other rebreather, using proper weighting and the counterlung. Use volume differences in the CL for bouyancy trim. This is how it's always been done in professional environments. Examples: FGT-1D, Mark-15, DC-55, IDA-71, LAR-V, etc.: None of the professional users use any sort of BC... they weight their divers *properly* to begin with and then go diving. Most sport divers tend to dive too heavy to begin with. Take off lead and remove extra gear.

If you can buddy breathe (even better with a 2 hose reg), "Blow and Go", use a J-Valve, use USN Dive Tables, and know that to "Z Out" means no repet diving for 12 hours (as opposed to sleeping) you probably don't need to use a BC. If you were trained in the epoch "AP" (Anno PADI) you probably were taught that equipment was a substitute for skill. Old ways work best sometimes, they just don't sell equipment...

Dave

undrh2o · 31st May 2007, 20:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

With a wetsuit: Just like every other rebreather, using proper weighting and the counterlung. Use volume differences in the CL for bouyancy trim. This is how it's always been done in professional environments. Examples: FGT-1D, Mark-15, DC-55, IDA-71, LAR-V, etc.: None of the professional users use any sort of BC... they weight their divers *properly* to begin with and then go diving. Most sport divers tend to dive too heavy to begin with. Take off lead and remove extra gear.

If you can buddy breathe (even better with a 2 hose reg), "Blow and Go", use a J-Valve, use USN Dive Tables, and know that to "Z Out" means no repet diving for 12 hours (as opposed to sleeping) you probably don't need to use a BC. If you were trained in the epoch "AP" (Anno PADI) you probably were taught that equipment was a substitute for skill. Old ways work best sometimes, they just don't sell equipment...

Dave

I'm 35 and certified in 2000 (April 1st to be exact) but I understand the theory and I'd assumed that's how the Russians did it...especially after seeing the picture below

I have an old genesis recon/sherwood outback will 11" holes I'm going to use initially but I'm going to try the Russian harness at some point - with a drysuit (I like options)

HSM034.jpg

Mossyback · 31st May 2007, 22:49

Thanks GKAM, the pictures helped a lot and now I have some options.

Monty, you offered some pictures and I'd really appreciate it if you'd send some.

Dave, as usual, you have words of wisdom. I found your reply to undrh2o quite interesting. I come from the ancient past (NAUI Instructor #504) and all I ever wore as a "safety" device was a UDT lifejacket, the short version. Yup, J-valves, Blow and Go and double hose regs were all part of the game. One of the main reasons I'm looking into a BC is that everyone demands them if you're going to dive with the group or climb on to a charter. Having dived CCR for many years going up and down was always a breathing bag exercise. So how does one overcome the "no BC - no dive" situation?

I guess I'm now in a position, with the comments of you folks (GKAM, Monty and Dave to decide what will be right for me.

Thanks,
Hank

**Dave Sutton** · 31st May 2007, 23:02

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mossyback)

. So how does one overcome the "no BC - no dive" situation?

Pick up an old horsecollar BC with a power inflator and go diving. Find an old Nemrod or Fenzy or Buddy with a built in inflation cylinder and you'll be even better. Nobody ever said a BC had to be back mounted.... the USN still buys horsecollar BC's, and they work just dandy with the old Russian harness (which is not unlike my favorite doubles harness, the old US Divers "Navy Harness" web rig without a back plate, also still purchased by the USN)....

Have a few Fenzy's around here someplace.... hit EBay for one.

That rifle is an APS. Avtomat Podvodny Spetzialny. Open bolt, smooth-bore, and fires a flechette. Sucks in the air. Works OK underwater. Surprisingly common in Russia and their areas of influence. They took harbor security seriously. Still do. Dunno why it fires from an open bolt, it's not a slam-fire fixed firing pin, it's a sear controlled hammer system, and is gas operated with a typical Kalishnikov rotating bolt. Don't ask how I know this stuff..... just ran across one "down south" in the early 80's..... same place I saw my first MiG...

Dave

"I was gambling in Havana, I took a little risk. Bring lawyers, guns, and money, and get me out of this.
I went home with the waitress, the way I always do. How was I to know that she was with the Russians too?
Now I'm hiding in Honduras, I'm a desperate man. Bring lawyers, guns, and money: The shit has hit the fan..."

.

montyg · 1st June 2007, 06:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mossyback)

Monty, you offered some pictures and I'd really appreciate it if you'd send some.

Thanks,
Hank

Here's a few - I hope it helps ...

Just FYI I don't dive with the padded bit which attaches by velcro anymore.

That way the 'breather is closer to my back and it's not uncomfortable at all.

One less thing to wash & dry ;-)

rgds
monty

31st May 2007, 02:56	#1 (permalink)
Mossyback Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Southern Ontario, Canada Posts: 109	Backplate and BC for IDA-71 And yet another question. I've been doing some pool dives on 100% O2 with my IDA-71. There are several things that I want to change/improve but I'll deal with them one at a time on this forum. The Russian harness works but leaves a lot to be desired. Also I'd like to have a BC integrated with it. I've searched the archives but have come up empty. What do you folks who dive this unit use? Hank __________________ "Be the kind of person your dog thinks you are."
(Offline)

31st May 2007, 05:14	#2 (permalink)
GKAM digital nomad Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Greece Posts: 254	Re: Backplate and BC for IDA-71 I used to have a Travel Backplate and a 40lb wing both from OxyCheq. About a year ago, I switched to a soft A-pack lite and It is SUPER comfortable. Plus, it brings the unit even closer to my back making breathing extremely comfortable. Basically, you can modify the IDA71 chasis by adding 2xM8 screws so you can add any BP or harness you like. It makes the unit quite modular. Thx, GKAM __________________ Stay #
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31st May 2007, 06:26	#3 (permalink)
montyg Monty Guest Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Cape Town, South Africa Posts: 242	Re: Backplate and BC for IDA-71 Quote: (Originally Posted by Mossyback) The Russian harness works but leaves a lot to be desired. Also I'd like to have a BC integrated with it. I've searched the archives but have come up empty. What do you folks who dive this unit use? Hank 2 of us here in Cape Town use the OxyCheq O-Pac on our IDA-71's and it works a treat. It's almost like it was made to fit an IDA ;-) Can post picts if you'd like... rgds monty
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31st May 2007, 10:25	#4 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,907	Re: Backplate and BC for IDA-71 (1): Never use a Backplate. Keep the rig close to your back. Add a plate and WOB goes way up. (2): Bolt on any of the soft harnesses and you'll be happy. The above suggestions are all good ones. (3): Try using the original harness for a while.... they grow on you. Remove the stainless plate on the front and see how you like it. In the end I liked it better than the other solutions. Dave __________________ "Silent Diving with No Bubbles and No Politics".... www.nobubblediving.com
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31st May 2007, 17:00	#5 (permalink)
undrh2o Chris Miller Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 206	Re: Backplate and BC for IDA-71 Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) (1): Never use a Backplate. Keep the rig close to your back. Add a plate and WOB goes way up. (2): Bolt on any of the soft harnesses and you'll be happy. The above suggestions are all good ones. (3): Try using the original harness for a while.... they grow on you. Remove the stainless plate on the front and see how you like it. In the end I liked it better than the other solutions. Dave With the original harness what did you use for buoyancy? Your drysuit?
(Offline)

31st May 2007, 18:58	#6 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,907	Re: Backplate and BC for IDA-71 Quote: (Originally Posted by undrh2o) With the original harness what did you use for buoyancy? Your drysuit? With a wetsuit: Just like every other rebreather, using proper weighting and the counterlung. Use volume differences in the CL for bouyancy trim. This is how it's always been done in professional environments. Examples: FGT-1D, Mark-15, DC-55, IDA-71, LAR-V, etc.: None of the professional users use any sort of BC... they weight their divers properly to begin with and then go diving. Most sport divers tend to dive too heavy to begin with. Take off lead and remove extra gear. If you can buddy breathe (even better with a 2 hose reg), "Blow and Go", use a J-Valve, use USN Dive Tables, and know that to "Z Out" means no repet diving for 12 hours (as opposed to sleeping) you probably don't need to use a BC. If you were trained in the epoch "AP" (Anno PADI) you probably were taught that equipment was a substitute for skill. Old ways work best sometimes, they just don't sell equipment... Dave __________________ "Silent Diving with No Bubbles and No Politics".... www.nobubblediving.com Last edited by Dave Sutton : 31st May 2007 at 19:02.
(Offline)

31st May 2007, 20:25	#7 (permalink)
undrh2o Chris Miller Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 206	Re: Backplate and BC for IDA-71 Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) With a wetsuit: Just like every other rebreather, using proper weighting and the counterlung. Use volume differences in the CL for bouyancy trim. This is how it's always been done in professional environments. Examples: FGT-1D, Mark-15, DC-55, IDA-71, LAR-V, etc.: None of the professional users use any sort of BC... they weight their divers properly to begin with and then go diving. Most sport divers tend to dive too heavy to begin with. Take off lead and remove extra gear. If you can buddy breathe (even better with a 2 hose reg), "Blow and Go", use a J-Valve, use USN Dive Tables, and know that to "Z Out" means no repet diving for 12 hours (as opposed to sleeping) you probably don't need to use a BC. If you were trained in the epoch "AP" (Anno PADI) you probably were taught that equipment was a substitute for skill. Old ways work best sometimes, they just don't sell equipment... Dave I'm 35 and certified in 2000 (April 1st to be exact) but I understand the theory and I'd assumed that's how the Russians did it...especially after seeing the picture below I have an old genesis recon/sherwood outback will 11" holes I'm going to use initially but I'm going to try the Russian harness at some point - with a drysuit (I like options) HSM034.jpg
(Offline)

31st May 2007, 22:49	#8 (permalink)
Mossyback Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Southern Ontario, Canada Posts: 109	Re: Backplate and BC for IDA-71 Thanks GKAM, the pictures helped a lot and now I have some options. Monty, you offered some pictures and I'd really appreciate it if you'd send some. Dave, as usual, you have words of wisdom. I found your reply to undrh2o quite interesting. I come from the ancient past (NAUI Instructor #504) and all I ever wore as a "safety" device was a UDT lifejacket, the short version. Yup, J-valves, Blow and Go and double hose regs were all part of the game. One of the main reasons I'm looking into a BC is that everyone demands them if you're going to dive with the group or climb on to a charter. Having dived CCR for many years going up and down was always a breathing bag exercise. So how does one overcome the "no BC - no dive" situation? I guess I'm now in a position, with the comments of you folks (GKAM, Monty and Dave to decide what will be right for me. Thanks, Hank __________________ "Be the kind of person your dog thinks you are."
(Offline)

31st May 2007, 23:02	#9 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,907	Re: Backplate and BC for IDA-71 Quote: (Originally Posted by Mossyback) . So how does one overcome the "no BC - no dive" situation? Pick up an old horsecollar BC with a power inflator and go diving. Find an old Nemrod or Fenzy or Buddy with a built in inflation cylinder and you'll be even better. Nobody ever said a BC had to be back mounted.... the USN still buys horsecollar BC's, and they work just dandy with the old Russian harness (which is not unlike my favorite doubles harness, the old US Divers "Navy Harness" web rig without a back plate, also still purchased by the USN).... Have a few Fenzy's around here someplace.... hit EBay for one. That rifle is an APS. Avtomat Podvodny Spetzialny. Open bolt, smooth-bore, and fires a flechette. Sucks in the air. Works OK underwater. Surprisingly common in Russia and their areas of influence. They took harbor security seriously. Still do. Dunno why it fires from an open bolt, it's not a slam-fire fixed firing pin, it's a sear controlled hammer system, and is gas operated with a typical Kalishnikov rotating bolt. Don't ask how I know this stuff..... just ran across one "down south" in the early 80's..... same place I saw my first MiG... Dave "I was gambling in Havana, I took a little risk. Bring lawyers, guns, and money, and get me out of this. I went home with the waitress, the way I always do. How was I to know that she was with the Russians too? Now I'm hiding in Honduras, I'm a desperate man. Bring lawyers, guns, and money: The shit has hit the fan..." . __________________ "Silent Diving with No Bubbles and No Politics".... www.nobubblediving.com Last edited by Dave Sutton : 31st May 2007 at 23:21.
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