30 Minute ALMOST FREE Kip-8 Conversion... Will It Work???

Yankee Rebel · 20th May 2007, 11:43

ive had a kip-8 kicking around for about 2 years now that ive been meaning to convert for diving use. ive looked at all the conversions i could find here on RBW, googled it, and ive read the problems associated with it, but i think i might have tackled it in a simple and quick manner.

i turned it into an O2 pendulum rebreather.

i dont know the technical terms for the parts, but basically what i did was the following:

please note that my rig was bought second hand and didnt come with all the parts that a new one that would be imported from Russia would have. ive had to omit and make do with what was available. basically everything in the chasis. no PSI gauge and no hoses/DSV/Mask.

remove pressure gauge tube. (no pressure guage supplied with rig)

remove cmf feed bypass tube (not sure if this is what it is, but its what i THINK it is.. runs from the side of the regulator up to the upper side of the barrel thingie)

remove barrel thingie located above the regulator (LP Whistle?)

plug off HP port coming out of regulator that feeds the pressure guage (used a cap off a scrapped IDA-59 in this case)

plug off the CMF(?) port on the side of the regulator (used identical cap)

remove upper fitting from counterlung that attatches to barrel. (remove tape, clip twine with fingernail clippers carefully, and unwind. gently seperate rubber from aluminum)

install 1/2" (think thats what size it is) PVC slip cap in now open hole in lung. rewrap new twine around the counterlung, like whipping the end of a rope (google it if need be) and covered with a couple wraps of duct tape. open hole now plugged.

since my Kip-8 didnt come with any hoses or fittings for the hoses, i got creative. that part i removed from the counterlung? it fits the top of the scrubber like it was made for it. install old BC oral inflator hose to fitting and screw onto top of scrubber.

hook up counterlung to bottom of scrubber, OP valve and regulator.

next step i will put on a new harness and make it a CHEST MOUNT rebreather. this will allow the manual activation of the lever on the regulator and over come one of the problems with the design. very difficult to activate the manual addition.

by converting it to a pendulum rebreather my theory is that it will help with the undersized scrubber issue, and allow the use of the stock scrubber.

i have not been able to test this rig yet as i am waiting on fill adapters for the stock bottle. the regulator may need to be waterproofed, im not sure yet, testing is required as well as searching the posts on the Kip-8 again.

pics will follow as soon as i can find the digital camera. i need to run to the "surplus" (i use that term VERY loosely, glorified yuppie "camping" store is what its turned into) store and get webbing, clips and D-rings to make a harness. i COULD just use some rope though for simplicity sake, but since i have to wait for the fill adapters from Germany... ive got time. ive also got to make a suitable mouthpeice for it, other than a 90* elbow and a regulator mouthpeice.

problems that havent been overcome. ALOT (read EVERYTHING) seems to be made from aluminum, so i expect beau-coup corrosion issues. its alittle bulky for chest mount compared to other rigs out there. i may paint the aluminum parts to try and inhibit corrosion, may have them anodized if affordable later, or try a home anodize, or just leave it as is. not sure yet.

soooo what do you think? will it work as well as i hope? is there something ive missed? criticisms? suggestions?

oh yeah... total cost of "conversion" one $1 (or less) cap, about 16" of twine, and an old salvaged BC oral inflator hose. webbing costs with buckle and D-Ring expected to be under $20. i COULD reuse the existing harness by just removing the shoulder straps and turning that into a neck strap, and keep the existing waist strap, but ill have to look into if that is what i really want to do.

Edited to Add:

upon a fast experiment i believe the original existing harness will work just fine! shortened up the shoulder straps nice and short, and then tried to buckle the waiste belt around behind my back. it will take some practice, or i can adjust it to one side alittle more.. but it IS doable. itd be ALOT easier for a buddy to buckle you in with the waist strap though. in other words.. i just put it on backwards
i

teomannaskali · 20th May 2007, 11:50

Great job

Could we see some pictures?

teoman

Yankee Rebel · 20th May 2007, 12:00

ill try and get pictures put up later on today. ive got to find the digital camera, and take pics. ive got a busy day, so itll probly be tonite before they upload at the earliest.

**Dave Sutton** · 20th May 2007, 14:08

The big problem is that the original regulator will freeflow badly when immersed in water, as it's way too low in the system. Adjust it so it will not freeflow and it will not work as a manual add valve. Play with it, see if you can dump the regulator completely. I got so frustrated with mine that I gave up. Want a spare? For the cost of FEDEX it's yours.

Dave

canetoad · 20th May 2007, 16:45

Hello all,
Guess this will serve as my introductory post. Been lurking, listening & learning for a while now. This forum is a great resource.

Dave,

If Yankee Rebel doesn't want it and, provided you are still inclined, I would be interested in the Kip. Had been looking to order one shortly after I finish my Homebuild. That's the plan, anyway. No doubt both projects will end up running concurrently. Wouldnt mind a critique of my design at some point. It will start as a pure O2 rig, especially as I have an abundance of 20ft or less locations where I live, & evolve from there. It uses the usual PVC components & parts from the Rebreather Stores (Lowes, Home Depot) and will now use a slight variation of the "LDSOH Cheap-Kiss" recipe you posted recently. Also; possibly some parts & the 2L 30MPa bottles from a cheap & unused Czech Tank escape device. It is more or less a proof of concept in that it will be "componentized" & fully redundant; i.e. 2 identical compact rebreathers in one package which can be flown independently, together in parallel, or physically separated as independent units, and to be able to do this quickly & easily above & below. Despite the preceding description, it is about as simple & straightforward as you can get. I'm begining to run on now, so until next time.

Thanks,
PM

**Dave Sutton** · 20th May 2007, 17:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by canetoad)

Dave, If Yankee Rebel doesn't want it and, provided you are still inclined, I would be interested in the Kip.

You guys can sort it out.... I'll box it up this week and ya'll can wrangle who gets it. They are cheap anyhow. This one is partially modified, spent three *days* fooling with it, in and outta the pool 50 times, and it still free-flowed. Be good to see it go to a loving home. I'm going to start giving away a bunch of unused stuff over the next while, need to (A) clean out the shop and (B) help out who I can.

Start a new thread and show your work to us! You might even obtain the prized "Diver Dave Seal of Approval"...

Dave

canetoad · 20th May 2007, 19:27

I'm the new guy coming out of nowhere & Yankee Rebel has been posting for awhile. Not to mention he has an active Kip project. He definately has 1st "dibs". I think I'll follow your advice & start a new thread shortly. Still in the parts acquisition phase though. Have most of the scrubber parts, bottles, misc components, etc. Ordering my KISS parts tonight & buying my CL (inner tube). I'll try to clean up my drawings & post them in the next couple of days along with any photos & other info I have.

PM

Yankee Rebel · 21st May 2007, 00:14

hi Dave!

thought id check this thread while i had a minute. first let me say that is VERY generous of you!! ill talk with Canetoad via PM's and sort out that Kip-8 if you really want to part with it.

the free flow issue.. i may be showing my ignorance here, but i believe i may have a simple solution to the problem. youve probly already tried this, but i took the top off the regulator and was looking in there.. i removed the diaphram, pushed the short arm down.. it takes almost no effort.. i lifted the short arm.. pushed the long arm down.. zero effort. i was thinking.. what if someone was to install a small spring under the end of the long arm, alittle dab of epoxy maybe... would that keep the lever up high enough to prevent freeflow? or is it all an internal issue? i lack the O2 otherwise id test this out myself.. but thought id run it past you.

whatcha think?

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

The big problem is that the original regulator will freeflow badly when immersed in water, as it's way too low in the system. Adjust it so it will not freeflow and it will not work as a manual add valve. Play with it, see if you can dump the regulator completely. I got so frustrated with mine that I gave up. Want a spare? For the cost of FEDEX it's yours.

Dave

Yankee Rebel · 22nd May 2007, 02:39

heres a couple pics. they are nothing great or fancy.. and what i did is really simple. buuuuuuuuuuutt here goes.

REMEMBER THIS IS UNTESTED AND I AM UNSURE IF IT WILL EVEN WORK. THIS IS JUST THE FIRST STEPS IN CONVERTING A KIP-8 INTO A PENDULUM REBREATHER AS CHEAPLY AND EASILY AS POSSIBLE BEING MY GOAL.

first pic is how the insides look now:

second pic is of the counterlung with the PVC cap/plug in it, and you can see the high and lowpressure ports on the regulator with the caps on them.

third pic is of the regulator with the cap from the highpressure side removed..where the pressure gauge feeds from.

the unit is fairly comfortable worn on the chest utilizing the original unmodified harness. i will end up cleaning up the harness before i am completely done, removing clips and extras. getting the buckle bucked behind the back is a PITA without help, but unbuckling it is VERY easy. fourth pic.

i lack a LDSOH or even a halfway proper work area, so i apoligize for the pictures.

20th May 2007, 11:43	#1 (permalink)
Yankee Rebel Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: California Posts: 147	30 Minute ALMOST FREE Kip-8 Conversion... Will It Work??? ive had a kip-8 kicking around for about 2 years now that ive been meaning to convert for diving use. ive looked at all the conversions i could find here on RBW, googled it, and ive read the problems associated with it, but i think i might have tackled it in a simple and quick manner. i turned it into an O2 pendulum rebreather. i dont know the technical terms for the parts, but basically what i did was the following: please note that my rig was bought second hand and didnt come with all the parts that a new one that would be imported from Russia would have. ive had to omit and make do with what was available. basically everything in the chasis. no PSI gauge and no hoses/DSV/Mask. remove pressure gauge tube. (no pressure guage supplied with rig) remove cmf feed bypass tube (not sure if this is what it is, but its what i THINK it is.. runs from the side of the regulator up to the upper side of the barrel thingie) remove barrel thingie located above the regulator (LP Whistle?) plug off HP port coming out of regulator that feeds the pressure guage (used a cap off a scrapped IDA-59 in this case) plug off the CMF(?) port on the side of the regulator (used identical cap) remove upper fitting from counterlung that attatches to barrel. (remove tape, clip twine with fingernail clippers carefully, and unwind. gently seperate rubber from aluminum) install 1/2" (think thats what size it is) PVC slip cap in now open hole in lung. rewrap new twine around the counterlung, like whipping the end of a rope (google it if need be) and covered with a couple wraps of duct tape. open hole now plugged. since my Kip-8 didnt come with any hoses or fittings for the hoses, i got creative. that part i removed from the counterlung? it fits the top of the scrubber like it was made for it. install old BC oral inflator hose to fitting and screw onto top of scrubber. hook up counterlung to bottom of scrubber, OP valve and regulator. next step i will put on a new harness and make it a CHEST MOUNT rebreather. this will allow the manual activation of the lever on the regulator and over come one of the problems with the design. very difficult to activate the manual addition. by converting it to a pendulum rebreather my theory is that it will help with the undersized scrubber issue, and allow the use of the stock scrubber. i have not been able to test this rig yet as i am waiting on fill adapters for the stock bottle. the regulator may need to be waterproofed, im not sure yet, testing is required as well as searching the posts on the Kip-8 again. pics will follow as soon as i can find the digital camera. i need to run to the "surplus" (i use that term VERY loosely, glorified yuppie "camping" store is what its turned into) store and get webbing, clips and D-rings to make a harness. i COULD just use some rope though for simplicity sake, but since i have to wait for the fill adapters from Germany... ive got time. ive also got to make a suitable mouthpeice for it, other than a 90* elbow and a regulator mouthpeice. problems that havent been overcome. ALOT (read EVERYTHING) seems to be made from aluminum, so i expect beau-coup corrosion issues. its alittle bulky for chest mount compared to other rigs out there. i may paint the aluminum parts to try and inhibit corrosion, may have them anodized if affordable later, or try a home anodize, or just leave it as is. not sure yet. soooo what do you think? will it work as well as i hope? is there something ive missed? criticisms? suggestions? oh yeah... total cost of "conversion" one $1 (or less) cap, about 16" of twine, and an old salvaged BC oral inflator hose. webbing costs with buckle and D-Ring expected to be under $20. i COULD reuse the existing harness by just removing the shoulder straps and turning that into a neck strap, and keep the existing waist strap, but ill have to look into if that is what i really want to do. Edited to Add: upon a fast experiment i believe the original existing harness will work just fine! shortened up the shoulder straps nice and short, and then tried to buckle the waiste belt around behind my back. it will take some practice, or i can adjust it to one side alittle more.. but it IS doable. itd be ALOT easier for a buddy to buckle you in with the waist strap though. in other words.. i just put it on backwards i Last edited by Yankee Rebel : 20th May 2007 at 11:56. Reason: harness change
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20th May 2007, 11:50	#2 (permalink)
teomannaskali RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Home Build Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Istanbul TR Posts: 421	Re: 30 Minute ALMOST FREE Kip-8 Conversion... Will It Work??? Great job Could we see some pictures? teoman
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20th May 2007, 12:00	#3 (permalink)
Yankee Rebel Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: California Posts: 147	Re: 30 Minute ALMOST FREE Kip-8 Conversion... Will It Work??? ill try and get pictures put up later on today. ive got to find the digital camera, and take pics. ive got a busy day, so itll probly be tonite before they upload at the earliest.
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20th May 2007, 14:08	#4 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,907	Re: 30 Minute ALMOST FREE Kip-8 Conversion... Will It Work??? The big problem is that the original regulator will freeflow badly when immersed in water, as it's way too low in the system. Adjust it so it will not freeflow and it will not work as a manual add valve. Play with it, see if you can dump the regulator completely. I got so frustrated with mine that I gave up. Want a spare? For the cost of FEDEX it's yours. Dave __________________ "Silent Diving with No Bubbles and No Politics".... www.nobubblediving.com
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20th May 2007, 16:45	#5 (permalink)
canetoad New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 30	Re: 30 Minute ALMOST FREE Kip-8 Conversion... Will It Work??? Hello all, Guess this will serve as my introductory post. Been lurking, listening & learning for a while now. This forum is a great resource. Dave, If Yankee Rebel doesn't want it and, provided you are still inclined, I would be interested in the Kip. Had been looking to order one shortly after I finish my Homebuild. That's the plan, anyway. No doubt both projects will end up running concurrently. Wouldnt mind a critique of my design at some point. It will start as a pure O2 rig, especially as I have an abundance of 20ft or less locations where I live, & evolve from there. It uses the usual PVC components & parts from the Rebreather Stores (Lowes, Home Depot) and will now use a slight variation of the "LDSOH Cheap-Kiss" recipe you posted recently. Also; possibly some parts & the 2L 30MPa bottles from a cheap & unused Czech Tank escape device. It is more or less a proof of concept in that it will be "componentized" & fully redundant; i.e. 2 identical compact rebreathers in one package which can be flown independently, together in parallel, or physically separated as independent units, and to be able to do this quickly & easily above & below. Despite the preceding description, it is about as simple & straightforward as you can get. I'm begining to run on now, so until next time. Thanks, PM
(Offline)

20th May 2007, 17:36	#6 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,907	Re: 30 Minute ALMOST FREE Kip-8 Conversion... Will It Work??? Quote: (Originally Posted by canetoad) Dave, If Yankee Rebel doesn't want it and, provided you are still inclined, I would be interested in the Kip. You guys can sort it out.... I'll box it up this week and ya'll can wrangle who gets it. They are cheap anyhow. This one is partially modified, spent three days fooling with it, in and outta the pool 50 times, and it still free-flowed. Be good to see it go to a loving home. I'm going to start giving away a bunch of unused stuff over the next while, need to (A) clean out the shop and (B) help out who I can. Start a new thread and show your work to us! You might even obtain the prized "Diver Dave Seal of Approval"... Dave __________________ "Silent Diving with No Bubbles and No Politics".... www.nobubblediving.com
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20th May 2007, 19:27	#7 (permalink)
canetoad New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 30	Re: 30 Minute ALMOST FREE Kip-8 Conversion... Will It Work??? I'm the new guy coming out of nowhere & Yankee Rebel has been posting for awhile. Not to mention he has an active Kip project. He definately has 1st "dibs". I think I'll follow your advice & start a new thread shortly. Still in the parts acquisition phase though. Have most of the scrubber parts, bottles, misc components, etc. Ordering my KISS parts tonight & buying my CL (inner tube). I'll try to clean up my drawings & post them in the next couple of days along with any photos & other info I have. PM
(Offline)

21st May 2007, 00:14	#8 (permalink)
Yankee Rebel Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: California Posts: 147	Re: 30 Minute ALMOST FREE Kip-8 Conversion... Will It Work??? hi Dave! thought id check this thread while i had a minute. first let me say that is VERY generous of you!! ill talk with Canetoad via PM's and sort out that Kip-8 if you really want to part with it. the free flow issue.. i may be showing my ignorance here, but i believe i may have a simple solution to the problem. youve probly already tried this, but i took the top off the regulator and was looking in there.. i removed the diaphram, pushed the short arm down.. it takes almost no effort.. i lifted the short arm.. pushed the long arm down.. zero effort. i was thinking.. what if someone was to install a small spring under the end of the long arm, alittle dab of epoxy maybe... would that keep the lever up high enough to prevent freeflow? or is it all an internal issue? i lack the O2 otherwise id test this out myself.. but thought id run it past you. whatcha think? Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) The big problem is that the original regulator will freeflow badly when immersed in water, as it's way too low in the system. Adjust it so it will not freeflow and it will not work as a manual add valve. Play with it, see if you can dump the regulator completely. I got so frustrated with mine that I gave up. Want a spare? For the cost of FEDEX it's yours. Dave
(Offline)

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