Duncan's New Add System

**Dave Sutton** · 18th May 2007, 17:15

OK, Boys and Girls:

In a recent thread, we discussed the ins and outs of needle valves V/S orifices for mCCR use. Beat it to death, in fact, and the thread ended with my promise to supply Duncan Price an orifice system so he can compare it to the needle valve system that he has been using with success to date.

Fresh from the Slab of the Little Diveshop of Horrors arises the following:

The LDSOH "Cheap Kiss" Modular Injection System:

The system is really two subsystems: One is the basic manual add valve system that can be used for either diluent or 02 manual addition. It's nothing but a Clipard valve with one 90 degree elbow (chrome plated brass, even), feeding two barb fittings over which can be slid and then crimped a hose from a supply and a hose back to the rig. This system works fine, is cheap, and is well proven. Purists may wish to disassemble it and to add a stronger spring, for me I just spray the darned thing with silicone now and then and forget about it.

The second subsystem is the 02 orifice system. This is two brass "T" fittings with an orifice between the two. 02 goes in fast and comes out slow..... In this case I put the "T" fittings on it so it acts as a bypass of the manual add valve assembly, making it so only one hose needs to come from the 02 regulator and only one needs to go back to the rig.

The two subassemblies are connected with a hose pair, and you can see how it all works. Note that the hose length connecting the two can be any desired.

I used an isolation valve on this one because the orifice subsystem is designed to be external to the rig. In the event that the orifice subassembly is buried inside a rigs chassis, the main on/off cylinder bvalve can be substituted for the isolation valve and the valve removed, or the valve can be hard-mounted to the inside of a shell, with the on/off knob protruding thru.

For Duncan, I'm sending it with 6 feet of hose, a dozen crimps, and a few end fittings for his hoses and he can measure and cut and crimp himself to malke a neat system. My deal with him is that I provide the hardware, he tests it for workload as compared to his existing needle valve, publishes his findings here, and we can provide some closure to the earlier discussion.

The manual add system has value for the current diluent manual add thread as well.

All items sourced from the standard suppplier to the dark arts. Questions gladly entertained.

Dave

"To them's that live in RI: I'm not coming up tonight, need to fly here tomorrow and weather does not look good for me to commute up there in my puddle-jumper Navion this afternoon and back tomorrow AM. Cannot stand the idea of another 5 hour drive each way, so gonna bag it. Take a rain-check (literally) until next week. See ya then...."

gibbogeo · 18th May 2007, 18:13

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

OK, Boys and Girls:

The LDSOH "Cheap Kiss" Modular Injection System:

And from my shelves 2000$ worth of swagelok hoses, connectors, "tees", ball valves look at me and laugh...

If you can give a detailed list would be really appreciate.

Tom Rose · 18th May 2007, 18:13

Nice work Dave...you are one clever monkey...

Tom

**Dave Sutton** · 18th May 2007, 19:41

Quote: (Originally Posted by gibbogeo)

[/center]

And from my shelves 2000$ worth of swagelok hoses, connectors, "tees", ball valves look at me and laugh...

If you can give a detailed list would be really appreciate.

Attached:

Still Life: The Slab in the Little Diveshop of Horrors.....

I just came back from FEDEX taking Duncans package for shipping, and found my bench looking like this. That's just what's out... the real inventory of parts is on the (unshown) shelves. I'd be happy to only have $2000 of Swagelok stuff....

Duncan Price · 18th May 2007, 22:18

Thanks Dave. I will fit it to one/several in turn of my rigs and do a psuedo-scientific test on it during my cave diving vacation to France and the end of June. If I get chance it will go in the water earlier.

I'll keep everyone informed as to my progress but I want to give it a fair comparison so I want to play with it a bit to see how I get on.

Off to buy a fixed IP DS4 1st stage unless anyone wants to lend me one...

God how I hate spending money.

**Dave Sutton** · 19th May 2007, 00:17

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tom Rose)

Nice work Dave...you are one clever monkey...Tom

Well, "If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys" is what I always said..... best to at least get a clever one.

Dave

**Dave Sutton** · 19th May 2007, 00:57

OK, I dunno why I give away trade secrets, I could sell these systems for lots more, but......

(just do me a favor and don't kill yourself with this stuff).

Recipe for the "LDSOH Cheap-Kiss", all avaliable from your friendly dark-arts supply house.

(1) Valve, 6790T42 $14.75
(1) Valve, 4912K86 $4.90
(1) Tee, 50785K75 $1.55
(1) Tee, 50785K321 $2.18
(1) Ell, 50785K41 $1.13
(1) Snubber, 3820K11 $8.04
(1 bag) Barb Fittings 5346K61 $7.57
(1 bag) Crimps 5435K13 $4.30
(x feet) Hose, Green: 5288K11 $0.85/foot
(1 roll) Teflon Tape 4591K11 $1.13
(1) Old BC supply hose (sacrifice to get regulator and QD ends)

So, assuming that you can find a free BC hose, or choose to use pipe fittings (you'll have enough extras), and use 5 feet of hose at 0.85/foot, you'll have a whopping $49.80 into your "LDSOH Cheap-Kiss".

Told ya it was less than $50..... I think this one rates right up with Franken-Son....

Dave

Scuttle · 19th May 2007, 00:58

I like the set up Dave & my old spare dolphin is going back into action with this set up as I have most of these parts on hand minus a couple of tees. First thing Monday I know where I headed.
I've been scratching my head for awhile & it's all too easy now the way you have laid it out.
Cheers for the many tips over the years( starting with your website way back when) & some long overdue blue blobs coming your way.

Out of interest, my first dolphin now residing & operating in the Solomons is a needled one.

**Dave Sutton** · 19th May 2007, 01:03

Time now to reprint my famous advice since I've just given the data: Don't use this system if you're not a grown up, and follow this advice:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now, by popular demand, here's a reprint of my famous
LEGAL ADVICE FOR THE STUPID

"The next time you go to the market, remember that half of the people that you meet are of below average intelligence".

WARNING! Rebreather Diving is a dangerous sport. It weeds out the weak by KILLING them. Can I make it any clearer than that? SO: Remember, Rebreather-Diving AT ALL is dangerous enough. Making up EXPERIMENTAL rigs from parts gathered from here and there is about as iffy as it gets. DON'T try this if you don't know what you are doing. If you get killed following my methods, then shame on you! Don't let your family come crying to me as to how I facilitated YOUR death. The bottom line is that if you could not do this sort of conversion WITHOUT READING ANY INSTRUCTIONS AT ALL you are not ready to do it by following my methods. Hey! Be careful out there, huh?

If you want to persist in twisting the tail of the Dragon, Go read my Philosophy Page now to see if you have you head screwed on in the right way to accept these risks.

Toll the bell, call up the ghosts, summon out the lifesavers and the pirates.
The shoals are there still, the winds howl loud, the rain beats down, the waves burst strong.
Some night, in the chill darkness, someone will make a mistake: The sea will show him no mercy.

Never forget it.

Dave

.

**SeaBass** · 19th May 2007, 02:35

Hey Dave,

Appreciate the classic reminder and great work on the O2 addition module! I for one especially like the way you incorporated the snubber.

Of course this <$50 "Cheap Kiss" Modular Injection System is only half the solution. Redundant PPO2 monitoring is not only more expensive but cannot be ordered through McMaster-Carr.

You wouldn't have a recommendation for something that does both for under $1,500 would you?

-SB

18th May 2007, 18:13	#2 (permalink)
gibbogeo Gilberto Bonaga, Italy Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: italy Posts: 315	Re: Duncan's New Add System Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) OK, Boys and Girls: *The LDSOH "Cheap Kiss" Modular Injection System:* And from my shelves 2000$ worth of swagelok hoses, connectors, "tees", ball valves look at me and laugh... If you can give a detailed list would be really appreciate.
(Offline)

18th May 2007, 18:13	#3 (permalink)
Tom Rose Still Learning Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: USA,North Carolina Posts: 328	Re: Duncan's New Add System Nice work Dave...you are one clever monkey... Tom __________________ The 50-50-90 rule: Anytime I have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probability I'll get it wrong the first time. www.atlimp.com
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18th May 2007, 22:18	#5 (permalink)
Duncan Price Sump Monster Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Wells, Somerset, UK Posts: 335	Re: Duncan's New Add System Thanks Dave. I will fit it to one/several in turn of my rigs and do a psuedo-scientific test on it during my cave diving vacation to France and the end of June. If I get chance it will go in the water earlier. I'll keep everyone informed as to my progress but I want to give it a fair comparison so I want to play with it a bit to see how I get on. Off to buy a fixed IP DS4 1st stage unless anyone wants to lend me one... God how I hate spending money. Last edited by Duncan Price : 20th May 2007 at 21:17.
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19th May 2007, 00:17	#6 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,672	Re: Duncan's New Add System Quote: (Originally Posted by Tom Rose) Nice work Dave...you are one clever monkey...Tom Well, "If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys" is what I always said..... best to at least get a clever one. Dave __________________ "Changes in Lattitudes, Changes in Attitudes, Nothing remains quite the same".... www.nobubblediving.com
(Offline)

19th May 2007, 00:57	#7 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,672	Re: Duncan's New Add System OK, I dunno why I give away trade secrets, I could sell these systems for lots more, but...... (just do me a favor and don't kill yourself with this stuff). *Recipe for the "LDSOH Cheap-Kiss", all avaliable from your friendly dark-arts supply house.* (1) Valve, 6790T42 $14.75 (1) Valve, 4912K86 $4.90 (1) Tee, 50785K75 $1.55 (1) Tee, 50785K321 $2.18 (1) Ell, 50785K41 $1.13 (1) Snubber, 3820K11 $8.04 (1 bag) Barb Fittings 5346K61 $7.57 (1 bag) Crimps 5435K13 $4.30 (x feet) Hose, Green: 5288K11 $0.85/foot (1 roll) Teflon Tape 4591K11 $1.13 (1) Old BC supply hose (sacrifice to get regulator and QD ends) So, assuming that you can find a free BC hose, or choose to use pipe fittings (you'll have enough extras), and use 5 feet of hose at 0.85/foot, you'll have a whopping $49.80 into your "LDSOH Cheap-Kiss". Told ya it was less than $50..... I think this one rates right up with Franken-Son.... Dave __________________ "Changes in Lattitudes, Changes in Attitudes, Nothing remains quite the same".... www.nobubblediving.com Last edited by Dave Sutton : 19th May 2007 at 01:05.
(Offline)

19th May 2007, 00:58	#8 (permalink)
Scuttle 1 Grumpy ole skipper Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: May 2005 Location: Jan Juc, Vic, Australia Posts: 237	Re: Duncan's New Add System I like the set up Dave & my old spare dolphin is going back into action with this set up as I have most of these parts on hand minus a couple of tees. First thing Monday I know where I headed. I've been scratching my head for awhile & it's all too easy now the way you have laid it out. Cheers for the many tips over the years( starting with your website way back when) & some long overdue blue blobs coming your way. Out of interest, my first dolphin now residing & operating in the Solomons is a needled one. __________________ sold CK182 now its CK243
(Offline)

19th May 2007, 01:03	#9 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,672	Re: Duncan's New Add System Time now to reprint my famous advice since I've just given the data: Don't use this system if you're not a grown up, and follow this advice: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Now, by popular demand, here's a reprint of my famous LEGAL ADVICE FOR THE STUPID "The next time you go to the market, remember that half of the people that you meet are of below average intelligence". WARNING! Rebreather Diving is a dangerous sport. It weeds out the weak by KILLING them. Can I make it any clearer than that? SO: Remember, Rebreather-Diving AT ALL is dangerous enough. Making up EXPERIMENTAL rigs from parts gathered from here and there is about as iffy as it gets. DON'T try this if you don't know what you are doing. If you get killed following my methods, then shame on you! Don't let your family come crying to me as to how I facilitated YOUR death. The bottom line is that if you could not do this sort of conversion WITHOUT READING ANY INSTRUCTIONS AT ALL you are not ready to do it by following my methods. Hey! Be careful out there, huh? If you want to persist in twisting the tail of the Dragon, Go read my Philosophy Page now to see if you have you head screwed on in the right way to accept these risks. *Toll the bell, call up the ghosts, summon out the lifesavers and the pirates.* *The shoals are there still, the winds howl loud, the rain beats down, the waves burst strong.* *Some night, in the chill darkness, someone will make a mistake: The sea will show him no mercy.* Never forget it. Dave . __________________ "Changes in Lattitudes, Changes in Attitudes, Nothing remains quite the same".... www.nobubblediving.com Last edited by Dave Sutton : 19th May 2007 at 01:19.
(Offline)

19th May 2007, 02:35	#10 (permalink)
SeaBass Thom Susko Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ray Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Ray Home Build Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: San Clemente, CA Posts: 232	Re: Duncan's New Add System Hey Dave, Appreciate the classic reminder and great work on the O2 addition module! I for one especially like the way you incorporated the snubber. Of course this <$50 "Cheap Kiss" Modular Injection System is only half the solution. Redundant PPO2 monitoring is not only more expensive but cannot be ordered through McMaster-Carr. You wouldn't have a recommendation for something that does both for under $1,500 would you? -SB
(Offline)

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