McMaster Carr CMF orifices and filters

marekm

Hi everyone,

I'm after some detailed knowledge on CMF orifices from McMaster Carr following Tom Rose's post on his 'McMaster KISS valve'. Myself and some other people in Australia would like to send an order to McMaster Carr, but I'm not sure what to order just yet. So if someone can answer the following quesions:

1. What diameter orifice do I need for a 0L/min to 1L/min flow rate?
2. What threads do I need on it to use with a oceanic CDX5 regulaor?
3. What is the current part number for this orifice?
4. What is the corresponding filter for this orifice and its associated part number?
5. What are the pitfalls associated with O2 addition of this type?
6. Should I buy a number of difference orifices and filter combinations and play around with it, or has someone (Tom Rose hint hint) done all the testing already, and are willing to post a detailed lecture on the subject?
7. I have a light build and use little O2 and produce little CO2, which orifice/filter combination should I get? Other people interested have a heavier build and need more O2 per minute, which orifice should they get, or is it the same orifice/filter for everyone?

I would very much like to get a solid understanding of these questions, so I don't order the wrong things, and then waste months waiting for a new order to arrive.

Thankyou in advance to anyone who can help with this.
-Marek

Corallaro

This is an old and painful history
i order this material to send to a friend of a friend of a friend......
mcmaster send them to this boy in december...at today nothing is in my hands....
so this is only theory for me

read this 3d
http://www.rebreatherworld.com/home-...alves-u-w.html
and
wait Tom Rose for precise parts

Giovanni

PS don't use link below, view only part number

Products Line Quantity Part Number Description Unit Price Total Price Ships 1 1
Each 3820K41 Pulsation Damping Snubber Type 303 Ss, 1/8" NPT, .004" Orifice, 4000 PSI (Same as 3820K36)
$17.09 $17.09 today
2 1
Each 3820K11 Pulsation Damping Snubber Brass, 1/8" NPT, .004" Orifice, 2000 PSI (Same as 3820K26)
$8.04 $8.04 today
3 1
Each 4034K61 Pulsation Damping Snubber with Filtering Disc Brass, 1/8" NPT Connections, 10 Micron, 3000 PSI (Same as 4034K1)
$7.25 $7.25 today
4 1
Each 50745K16 Brass Single-Barbed Tube Fitting Barbed X NPT Male for 1/8" Tube Id, 1/8" NPT
$7.18 $7.18 today
5 1
Each 50745K26 Brass Single-Barbed Tube Fitting Barbed X NPT Female for 1/8" Tube Id, 1/8" NPT
$7.18 $7.18 today
Merchandise Total $46.74

koputai

Marek,
McMaster-Carr no longer deliver outside the USA. Scared of terrorists building things their govt won't like I guess.

Cheers,
Jason.
Sydney based ex-McMaster-Carr customer.

cameron

If you would like I can send you the contact information for the company that KISS get their orifices from. I have just ordered a .003 orifice for a slower flow rate then the stock .0035 KISS valve.

PM me if you want details.

marekm

Koputai:
I'm putting together an order to McMaster Carr via some friends in the US who have helped me with similar purchases in the past. So if you want something from McMaster Carr, send me a PM and I'll add it to the order.

Cameron:
Thankyou for your offer, which I may take you up on when I need to take the rig deeper, further down the development line. As I understand it, using a higher IP and smaller orifice allows the CMF O2 addition to function at greater depth. But for now, I'm going to play around with the 0.004" orifices.

Tom Rose

I know I am going to regret this but....I am willing to help.

First I understand what McMaster Carr is going through. They will have to certify that each item in their catalog is acceptable....It ain't worth their time and money. I know, cause I export instrumentation and training equipment all over the world.

Having said that, here is how I am willing to do it.

1. You guys down under get together and put together your order in terms of part number, quantity, and price in US dollars.

2. Shipping to me has to be paid

3. Shipping to you has to be paid

4. I will PM you my wire transfer number.

5. You will be responsible for wire transfer costs.

6. I will not add any fees.....

Sorry to get so formal but these things can get messy.

----------------------------------------------
Some questions answered


1. What diameter orifice do I need for a 0L/min to 1L/min flow rate?

See below you can look them up in the McMaster Catalog

2. What threads do I need on it to use with a oceanic CDX5 regulaor?

You will need an adapter...if you go to my post with the photograph you can see that I used a lp port to 1/4 npt. They are usually available from a lot of locations. I understand Scuba Tools has them. I get mine from Air Tech in San Diego.

3. What is the current part number for this orifice?

See below

4. What is the corresponding filter for this orifice and its associated part number?

This is the ordering information from McMaster Carr

1/8" NPT 7/8" long 3820K41 17.09

1/4 NPT 1 1/4" Long 3820K51 17.68

Type 303 Stainless Steel Filter I looked at two types
40-45 microns and 70 microns...each are smaller than the orifice you do yor own risk analysis. My thought was the filter must be smaller than the orifice...


1/8" NPP 1 3/32" long 4034K4 10.16


1/4" NPT 1 1/2" long 4034K5 13.27

5. What are the pitfalls associated with O2 addition of this type?

You can kill yourself. They can clog....if they get wet...especially with sea water they are hell to clean out. IMHO you need to take an extra orifice with you as a spare part on any dive trip. All other rebreather safety problems exist. It is not a magic wand....this stuff can kill you.

6. Should I buy a number of difference orifices and filter combinations and play around with it, or has someone (Tom Rose hint hint) done all the testing already, and are willing to post a detailed lecture on the subject?

Your choice......not willing to do a detailed lecture at this time...sorry...time issues...the photo I posted shows all that you need to know to construct the thing.

You do need to do flow rate tests.....before you die underwater...
You do need a manual injection system in case the orifice clogs and to make up the difference between the orifice flow and your metabolic needs.
I cannot recommend the use of these orifices for other than pure O2 usage...I have only shown what I was able to do.

7. I have a light build and use little O2 and produce little CO2, which orifice/filter combination should I get? Other people interested have a heavier build and need more O2 per minute, which orifice should they get, or is it the same orifice/filter for everyone?

Beats the hell out of me...you need to underatand your usage....I weigh 280 pounds...use less air on oc than anyone on the boat....dont use a lot of O2 cause I am not cold in the water and move very little....I am a reef inspector and shoot video...thus I use little O2.

I would very much like to get a solid understanding of these questions, so I don't order the wrong things, and then waste months waiting for a new order to arrive.

8. I will order when you have the details worked out....

9. Schedule

payment to our wire transfer account
one day from Mcmaster Carr
I will ship to you within 2 days
You pick the way for me to ship....
Slow and cheap...fast and more expensive

Oh yeah,
2 things....I expect some posts with pictures on your rigs and if and when I get down under....some good diving.

Best of luck

Tom

__________________
The 50-50-90 rule: Anytime I have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probability I'll get it wrong the first time.

www.atlimp.com

Corallaro

About the filter..

I see that many uses a swagelok 15 micron filter for original old type kiss valve

[that have an Orifice diameter of 0.004" = 0,1016 mm (102 Microns)]

so i found in mcmastercarr a 10 micron filter

and i will use a more cheap brass pieces instead of the more expensive ss

what do you think about?

dz3866

I choose to not use a filter, these snubbers are cheap and i just have a few made up into p-port plugs with QDs and carry a flow meter with me to do a quick check before the dive, if the flow is off, just plug in another one and go. as far as clogging goes, you are looking at your displays constantly right? Dave.

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marekm

Terrific offer Tom, I'm in. Since I'll be ordering the most parts, I'll wire you all the money for the order and sort out Denzel and Corallaro later, so things go more smoothly for you.

As for your what you request: I'm happy to do a RBW writeup of the whole rebreather once I get it finished up (may take a few months). And if your ever down under in the Brisbane area, your welcome on my boat with your rebreather (and if you leave it at home, just knock one together in my workshop )

Now to write that order up...

Corallaro

And......going a lot out of topic or out of mcmastercarr
what do you think about this orifice?

Norgren 4LR-010-D04
orifice diameter = 0,004"
sapphire

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