New valves for Orca

**fireman** · 21st February 2007, 14:21

Just got my new valves. The small conical from W+S fit perfectly in the Orca cylinders, and take standard din regs. A little pricey after shipping to states etc. but worth it.
W+S a pleasure to deal with and have lots of good stuff.
So now I'm out of excuses, and will finish my CCR conversion and post some pix.

undrh2o · 21st February 2007, 15:12

Just curious haw are you getting fills for the russian tanks? Do you have a compressor? I thought you couldn't get fills in the US/Canada without DOT/TC certification.

Skipbreather · 21st February 2007, 15:35

Quote: (Originally Posted by undrh2o)

Just curious haw are you getting fills for the russian tanks? Do you have a compressor? I thought you couldn't get fills in the US/Canada without DOT/TC certification.

There is a good discussion of this subject in ‘The Oxygen Hacker’s Companion’. What I took away from it is: What tanks you fill for yourself, non-commercially and within the state of your residence, is none of the federal government’s business. If you then transport said tank across state lines the situation becomes less clear.

I’ve always just filled my tanks at home and never given it a second thought.

For the AKA60, there is another option for divers who use a dry suit. I got to wondering about tank sizes. I opened up mine and measured the dimensions of its cylinders. I then went to spec sheets for what’s out there these days commercially. Turns out that the Worthington hot dipped galvanized steel hp 30 cf cylinder is a dead on match size-wise. Downside is that it is * HEAVY * , so much so that in anything other than a dry suit not only would you need no lead, you’d need to be carrying gross amounts of gas in your wings just to be neutral.

Ken

**fireman** · 21st February 2007, 15:49

Yes I have a fill station, but you could use say hp steels and decant. If the man doesn't have more to worry about than my Rebreather tanks then we are paying to much in taxes...
Nice tip on the worthingtons thanks.

**Dave Sutton** · 21st February 2007, 22:35

And, uhh.... err..... I have *50* of those valves under my bench. You never call, you never write... I send them out as paperweights.

Dave

**Dave Sutton** · 21st February 2007, 22:43

Quote: (Originally Posted by Skipbreather)

There is a good discussion of this subject in ‘The Oxygen Hacker’s Companion’. What I took away from it is: What tanks you fill for yourself, non-commercially and within the state of your residence, is none of the federal government’s business. If you then transport said tank across state lines the situation becomes less clear.

Hey Ken,

I think I wrote that article in the 02 Hackers book....

The deal on DOT is that the Department of Transportation considers a high pressure cylinder to be a *shipping container* used to ship a commodity. They have juridiction over the shipping of hazardous material, and as a result have jurisdiction over shipping containers used to transport high pressure gas.

In order for the DOT to have jurisdiction over a HP cylinder it must meet the three following tests:

(1): Be shipped FILLED
(2): Over State Lines (IE: in Interstate Commerce)
(3): By common motor carrier (IE: A trucking company)

If it does NOT meet ALL THREE TESTS then the DOT has nothing to say about it.

So..... if you don't send your filled tanks by truck freight, you can:

(1): Ignore the tank markings.
(2): Fill them as full as ya'll like.
(3): Never get them hydro tested
(4): And basically do as you see fit

(Great to live in the Land of the Free, eh?)

The entire "we won't fill them if they are not hydro-tested" thing is just a diveshop habit, not any sort of regulation. Ditto for internal inspections, neck crack inspections, etc. I'm not saying that it might not be good practice to do a visual, but I can tell you that NONE of my cylinders are in current hydro, as why would I expose them to a deliberate overfill for no reason? No corrosion free steel cylinder ever fails...

Russian (British, German, French, Mark-15 spheres, etc) cylinders can be legally filled by anyone here in the USA and carried anyplace you like by private vehicle.

Dave

Skipbreather · 22nd February 2007, 02:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

Hey Ken,

(3): Never get them hydro tested
(4): And basically do as you see fit

Dave

Hey Dave-

EXACTLY the rules I’ll be applying to my hard-to-find hoop wrapped L45W stage bottles all too soon.

Best,
Ken

**fireman** · 22nd February 2007, 03:21

Quote:

And, uhh.... err..... I have *50* of those valves under my bench. You never call, you never write... I send them out as paperweights.

Actually I did send a pm. Did ya get the one about coming out in june.
Ken do you have a source for the 30's?
I was also thinking about the lp luxifer 14's:
Northeast Scuba Supply - Online Catalog - Tanks
14cf at 2015, $90 each 4.4" diameter, 16.5 long
a little long but I think they might fit

21st February 2007, 14:21	#1 (permalink)
fireman rEvo combat swimmer Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: chicago Posts: 549	New valves for Orca Just got my new valves. The small conical from W+S fit perfectly in the Orca cylinders, and take standard din regs. A little pricey after shipping to states etc. but worth it. W+S a pleasure to deal with and have lots of good stuff. So now I'm out of excuses, and will finish my CCR conversion and post some pix. __________________ Heres to you Capt. Bill Never Forget, and stay safe everyone.
(Offline)

21st February 2007, 15:12	#2 (permalink)
undrh2o Chris Miller Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 206	Re: New valves for Orca Just curious haw are you getting fills for the russian tanks? Do you have a compressor? I thought you couldn't get fills in the US/Canada without DOT/TC certification.
(Offline)

21st February 2007, 15:35	#3 (permalink)
Skipbreather Reads the fine print Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet MK 15.X Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago, Illinois, USA Posts: 584	Re: New valves for Orca Quote: (Originally Posted by undrh2o) Just curious haw are you getting fills for the russian tanks? Do you have a compressor? I thought you couldn't get fills in the US/Canada without DOT/TC certification. There is a good discussion of this subject in ‘The Oxygen Hacker’s Companion’. What I took away from it is: What tanks you fill for yourself, non-commercially and within the state of your residence, is none of the federal government’s business. If you then transport said tank across state lines the situation becomes less clear. I’ve always just filled my tanks at home and never given it a second thought. For the AKA60, there is another option for divers who use a dry suit. I got to wondering about tank sizes. I opened up mine and measured the dimensions of its cylinders. I then went to spec sheets for what’s out there these days commercially. Turns out that the Worthington hot dipped galvanized steel hp 30 cf cylinder is a dead on match size-wise. Downside is that it is * HEAVY * , so much so that in anything other than a dry suit not only would you need no lead, you’d need to be carrying gross amounts of gas in your wings just to be neutral. Ken __________________ "Entropy RULES! Enjoy the interim."
(Offline)

21st February 2007, 15:49	#4 (permalink)
fireman rEvo combat swimmer Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: chicago Posts: 549	Re: New valves for Orca Yes I have a fill station, but you could use say hp steels and decant. If the man doesn't have more to worry about than my Rebreather tanks then we are paying to much in taxes... Nice tip on the worthingtons thanks. __________________ Heres to you Capt. Bill Never Forget, and stay safe everyone.
(Offline)

21st February 2007, 22:35	#5 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,907	Re: New valves for Orca And, uhh.... err..... I have 50 of those valves under my bench. You never call, you never write... I send them out as paperweights. Dave __________________ "Silent Diving with No Bubbles and No Politics".... www.nobubblediving.com
(Offline)

21st February 2007, 22:43	#6 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,907	Re: New valves for Orca Quote: (Originally Posted by Skipbreather) There is a good discussion of this subject in ‘The Oxygen Hacker’s Companion’. What I took away from it is: What tanks you fill for yourself, non-commercially and within the state of your residence, is none of the federal government’s business. If you then transport said tank across state lines the situation becomes less clear. Hey Ken, I think I wrote that article in the 02 Hackers book.... The deal on DOT is that the Department of Transportation considers a high pressure cylinder to be a shipping container used to ship a commodity. They have juridiction over the shipping of hazardous material, and as a result have jurisdiction over shipping containers used to transport high pressure gas. In order for the DOT to have jurisdiction over a HP cylinder it must meet the three following tests: (1): Be shipped FILLED (2): Over State Lines (IE: in Interstate Commerce) (3): By common motor carrier (IE: A trucking company) If it does NOT meet ALL THREE TESTS then the DOT has nothing to say about it. So..... if you don't send your filled tanks by truck freight, you can: (1): Ignore the tank markings. (2): Fill them as full as ya'll like. (3): Never get them hydro tested (4): And basically do as you see fit (Great to live in the Land of the Free, eh?) The entire "we won't fill them if they are not hydro-tested" thing is just a diveshop habit, not any sort of regulation. Ditto for internal inspections, neck crack inspections, etc. I'm not saying that it might not be good practice to do a visual, but I can tell you that NONE of my cylinders are in current hydro, as why would I expose them to a deliberate overfill for no reason? No corrosion free steel cylinder ever fails... Russian (British, German, French, Mark-15 spheres, etc) cylinders can be legally filled by anyone here in the USA and carried anyplace you like by private vehicle. Dave __________________ "Silent Diving with No Bubbles and No Politics".... www.nobubblediving.com
(Offline)

22nd February 2007, 02:55	#7 (permalink)
Skipbreather Reads the fine print Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet MK 15.X Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago, Illinois, USA Posts: 584	Re: New valves for Orca Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) Hey Ken, (3): Never get them hydro tested (4): And basically do as you see fit Dave Hey Dave- EXACTLY the rules I’ll be applying to my hard-to-find hoop wrapped L45W stage bottles all too soon. Best, Ken __________________ "Entropy RULES! Enjoy the interim."
(Offline)

22nd February 2007, 03:21	#8 (permalink)
fireman rEvo combat swimmer Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: chicago Posts: 549	Re: New valves for Orca Quote: And, uhh.... err..... I have 50 of those valves under my bench. You never call, you never write... I send them out as paperweights. Actually I did send a pm. Did ya get the one about coming out in june. Ken do you have a source for the 30's? I was also thinking about the lp luxifer 14's: Northeast Scuba Supply - Online Catalog - Tanks 14cf at 2015, $90 each 4.4" diameter, 16.5 long a little long but I think they might fit __________________ Heres to you Capt. Bill Never Forget, and stay safe everyone.
(Offline)

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