Saft Cells LS vs LST cells

***jradomski*** · 23rd June 2008, 18:53

It has come to my attention that a certain distributor is telling people that the LST is the replacement for the LS cells..

This is not true.. Both are still Manufactured, they also have different specifications.. I verified this info with a saft distributor not long ago.. You can also look at saft's web site the LS datasheet was updated as recently as april 2008

The LS cells are slightly larger than the LST cells both are still considered AA size.. The LS cells diameter is slightly larger and cell is slightly longer and may not fit in every device, but its fine with the HH. (they are not the only one that does this duracell ultras have the same nominal diameter/length as well)

The LS cells have better continuous current rating as well..

if you look at the ratings you can clearly see that LS cells at 100ma draw have a restored rating of 1.1 MAh while the LST cells have a only .8mAh (at 20c) - thats about 38% additional capacity under load..

While the LST cells are a better choice than AA alkalines LS cells are a better choice than LST cells and they can usually be found for the same price.. Also current LST cells have been upgraded as opposed to earlier LST cells so your mileage may vary..

I have also verified 4 year old LS cells (I still have a bunch left over from a very large purchase) vs new LST cells and the LST cells died well before the LS cells in a side by side comparison. (2 different HH sets (delrin) under same conditions)

**sfldiver** · 23rd June 2008, 20:58

Thanks for the info Joe!

Dsix36 · 23rd June 2008, 23:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

- thats about 38% additional capacity under load

That is a huge difference! Thanks for posting.

smokey · 24th June 2008, 17:16

Just got some Saft LS 14500 3.6 v. What batt warning do you recomend ? I have only used the norm 1.5 v AA till now one day and bin method, batt warning set at 1.2 v and have only had one warning on a long second dive.

divetheworld · 24th June 2008, 18:47

Absolutely, we have the same point of view.

Rebreather World - View Single Post - Shearwater Batteries

Dsix36 · 24th June 2008, 23:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by smokey)

Just got some Saft LS 14500 3.6 v. What batt warning do you recomend ? I have only used the norm 1.5 v AA till now one day and bin method, batt warning set at 1.2 v and have only had one warning on a long second dive.

I use 3.0v for the warning for these.

***jradomski*** · 25th June 2008, 05:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by smokey)

Just got some Saft LS 14500 3.6 v. What batt warning do you recomend ? I have only used the norm 1.5 v AA till now one day and bin method, batt warning set at 1.2 v and have only had one warning on a long second dive.

personally I set the warning at 2.8v so that I can see the actual voltage.. at 3.0v you really don' know what the voltage is dipping to.. With LS cells, short drops to 2.9v are ok (mainly when backlight is on and solenoid fires), but continuous drops to 2.9v is definately time to change the cell... if I see 2.8v at all (this wount set an alarm yet - this is very near the reset threshold - Backlight + solenoid), the cell definately hits the bin.. setting the alarm at 3.0v and changing it when I get these alarms would mean loosing alot of battery time on LS cells, probably not that long on LST cells..

w ripley · 7th July 2008, 23:00

Joe:

Since I'm running 13 AA batteries in my rig now (2 in HH, 11 in LED primary and backups), it seems like it would make sense simply to go with the SAFTs in everything. You know, only one type of battery and charger to worry about + all of the batteries would get lots of use. The initial cost isn't bad, when you look at the expected life of the batteries. (Silly me, bringing up cost in a Rebreather forum.)

My question: Have you found a suitable charger that will charge 4 or more of these batteries at a time? I've been surfing, but am having trouble finding anything with more than a 2 battery recharge capacity.

Still working on Jeff.

Regards,

Bill

divetheworld · 7th July 2008, 23:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by w ripley)

Joe:

Since I'm running 13 AA batteries in my rig now (2 in HH, 11 in LED primary and backups), it seems like it would make sense simply to go with the SAFTs in everything. You know, only one type of battery and charger to worry about + all of the batteries would get lots of use. The initial cost isn't bad, when you look at the expected life of the batteries. (Silly me, bringing up cost in a Rebreather forum.)

My question: Have you found a suitable charger that will charge 4 or more of these batteries at a time? I've been surfing, but am having trouble finding anything with more than a 2 battery recharge capacity.

Still working on Jeff.

Regards,

Bill

SAFT batteries ar'nt rechargeable.

Brent

w ripley · 8th July 2008, 03:01

Quote: (Originally Posted by divetheworld)

SAFT batteries ar'nt rechargeable.

Brent

Gulp...thanks, completely missed that one.

It does beg the question: "Is there a rechargable Lithium battery that provides the power characteristics of the SAFT 14500 LS, or that comes even remotely close to it, that we could be using in our HHs to give us longer power capacity over Alkaline AAs, even in cold water?"

As a side note I would think that rechargables, because they last so many cycles, have got to be more environmentally friendly than throwing away all of these Alkaline AA batteries.

Bill

23rd June 2008, 18:53	#1 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,113	Saft Cells LS vs LST cells It has come to my attention that a certain distributor is telling people that the LST is the replacement for the LS cells.. This is not true.. Both are still Manufactured, they also have different specifications.. I verified this info with a saft distributor not long ago.. You can also look at saft's web site the LS datasheet was updated as recently as april 2008 The LS cells are slightly larger than the LST cells both are still considered AA size.. The LS cells diameter is slightly larger and cell is slightly longer and may not fit in every device, but its fine with the HH. (they are not the only one that does this duracell ultras have the same nominal diameter/length as well) The LS cells have better continuous current rating as well.. if you look at the ratings you can clearly see that LS cells at 100ma draw have a restored rating of 1.1 MAh while the LST cells have a only .8mAh (at 20c) - thats about 38% additional capacity under load.. While the LST cells are a better choice than AA alkalines LS cells are a better choice than LST cells and they can usually be found for the same price.. Also current LST cells have been upgraded as opposed to earlier LST cells so your mileage may vary.. I have also verified 4 year old LS cells (I still have a bunch left over from a very large purchase) vs new LST cells and the LST cells died well before the LS cells in a side by side comparison. (2 different HH sets (delrin) under same conditions) __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated. Last edited by jradomski : 23rd June 2008 at 18:56.
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23rd June 2008, 20:58	#2 (permalink)
sfldiver S.C.R.U.B.'S Photographer Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pompano Beach, FL Posts: 819	Re: Saft Cells LS vs LST cells Thanks for the info Joe! __________________ *Currently piloting & shooting...* Dive Rite O2ptima FX Rigged w/ a Dsix Custom Aluminum Frame, Nomad Wing, Transpac Harness and VR3 Computer w/ VPM-B/E & a 4th Cell Sensor Link.* Canon PowerShot G9 Digital Camera *Rigged in a Patima-PDCH 2008 G9 Aluminum Housing w/ an Inon UWL-100 Achromat Wide Conversion Lens, 2 Inon UCL-165M67 Close-Up Lenses and 2 Inon Z-240 Strobes.
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23rd June 2008, 23:44	#3 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 1,154	Re: Saft Cells LS vs LST cells Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) - thats about 38% additional capacity under load That is a huge difference! Thanks for posting. __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!
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24th June 2008, 17:16	#4 (permalink)
smokey RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Scotland Posts: 91	Re: Saft Cells LS vs LST cells Just got some Saft LS 14500 3.6 v. What batt warning do you recomend ? I have only used the norm 1.5 v AA till now one day and bin method, batt warning set at 1.2 v and have only had one warning on a long second dive.
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24th June 2008, 18:47	#5 (permalink)
divetheworld Dive porn pimp Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Classic Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,636	Re: Saft Cells LS vs LST cells Absolutely, we have the same point of view. Rebreather World - View Single Post - Shearwater Batteries __________________ Attitude and self praise is no reccomendation. Dont try to be a great man, just be a man and let history be the judge of you. *WWW.NARKEDAT90.CO.UK* *http://www.grpservices.com/pursuit/* Supporting Shearwater Research Products in Europe
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24th June 2008, 23:46	#6 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 1,154	Re: Saft Cells LS vs LST cells Quote: (Originally Posted by smokey) Just got some Saft LS 14500 3.6 v. What batt warning do you recomend ? I have only used the norm 1.5 v AA till now one day and bin method, batt warning set at 1.2 v and have only had one warning on a long second dive. I use 3.0v for the warning for these. __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!
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25th June 2008, 05:48	#7 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,113	Re: Saft Cells LS vs LST cells Quote: (Originally Posted by smokey) Just got some Saft LS 14500 3.6 v. What batt warning do you recomend ? I have only used the norm 1.5 v AA till now one day and bin method, batt warning set at 1.2 v and have only had one warning on a long second dive. personally I set the warning at 2.8v so that I can see the actual voltage.. at 3.0v you really don' know what the voltage is dipping to.. With LS cells, short drops to 2.9v are ok (mainly when backlight is on and solenoid fires), but continuous drops to 2.9v is definately time to change the cell... if I see 2.8v at all (this wount set an alarm yet - this is very near the reset threshold - Backlight + solenoid), the cell definately hits the bin.. setting the alarm at 3.0v and changing it when I get these alarms would mean loosing alot of battery time on LS cells, probably not that long on LST cells.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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7th July 2008, 23:00	#8 (permalink)
w ripley Customise Me! Current Rebreather/s: Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norfolk VA USA Posts: 148	Re: Saft Cells LS vs LST cells Joe: Since I'm running 13 AA batteries in my rig now (2 in HH, 11 in LED primary and backups), it seems like it would make sense simply to go with the SAFTs in everything. You know, only one type of battery and charger to worry about + all of the batteries would get lots of use. The initial cost isn't bad, when you look at the expected life of the batteries. (Silly me, bringing up cost in a Rebreather forum.) My question: Have you found a suitable charger that will charge 4 or more of these batteries at a time? I've been surfing, but am having trouble finding anything with more than a 2 battery recharge capacity. Still working on Jeff. Regards, Bill
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7th July 2008, 23:47	#9 (permalink)
divetheworld Dive porn pimp Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Classic Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,636	Re: Saft Cells LS vs LST cells Quote: (Originally Posted by w ripley) Joe: Since I'm running 13 AA batteries in my rig now (2 in HH, 11 in LED primary and backups), it seems like it would make sense simply to go with the SAFTs in everything. You know, only one type of battery and charger to worry about + all of the batteries would get lots of use. The initial cost isn't bad, when you look at the expected life of the batteries. (Silly me, bringing up cost in a Rebreather forum.) My question: Have you found a suitable charger that will charge 4 or more of these batteries at a time? I've been surfing, but am having trouble finding anything with more than a 2 battery recharge capacity. Still working on Jeff. Regards, Bill SAFT batteries ar'nt rechargeable. Brent __________________ Attitude and self praise is no reccomendation. Dont try to be a great man, just be a man and let history be the judge of you. *WWW.NARKEDAT90.CO.UK* *http://www.grpservices.com/pursuit/* Supporting Shearwater Research Products in Europe
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8th July 2008, 03:01	#10 (permalink)
w ripley Customise Me! Current Rebreather/s: Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norfolk VA USA Posts: 148	Re: Saft Cells LS vs LST cells Quote: (Originally Posted by divetheworld) SAFT batteries ar'nt rechargeable. Brent Gulp...thanks, completely missed that one. It does beg the question: "Is there a rechargable Lithium battery that provides the power characteristics of the SAFT 14500 LS, or that comes even remotely close to it, that we could be using in our HHs to give us longer power capacity over Alkaline AAs, even in cold water?" As a side note I would think that rechargables, because they last so many cycles, have got to be more environmentally friendly than throwing away all of these Alkaline AA batteries. Bill
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