Should I Go CCR?

brianwl · 4th January 2007, 15:50

I posted this over on DecoStop and someone suggested I post it here as well.

I've been giving the idea of moving to a CCR some thought. My main interest is to reduce weight I am carrying at this time. I have bad knees and carrying doubles doesn't work to well.

So, considering there is a need to have a bail out bottle when using a CCR, would I actually be gaining anything by going with a CCR? I recognize it would give me significant gains in bottom time, but if I can't carry the gear to get to the dive site, it doesn't matter how much bottom time I can get.

Thanks

Brian

Mark Chase · 4th January 2007, 15:58

Quote: (Originally Posted by brianwl)

I posted this over on DecoStop and someone suggested I post it here as well.

I've been giving the idea of moving to a CCR some thought. My main interest is to reduce weight I am carrying at this time. I have bad knees and carrying doubles doesn't work to well.

So, considering there is a need to have a bail out bottle when using a CCR, would I actually be gaining anything by going with a CCR? I recognize it would give me significant gains in bottom time, but if I can't carry the gear to get to the dive site, it doesn't matter how much bottom time I can get.

Thanks

Brian

I dont think most CCR offers significant weight saving over OC. My unit riged and ready to go is 45kg in standard trim.

A KISS or a EVO would be a good choice as i think they are much lighter. A Sport kiss even more so. But they all need more lead than OC

ATB

Mark Chase

silentscuba · 4th January 2007, 16:38

My thinking would suggest that your total weight will be about the same OC or CCR, weather it is in your equipment or on a weight belt. With the lighter rebreathers, you have to add weight to your belt. You have to conteract the positive bouyancy of yourself and your drysuit/wetsuit no matter what type of gear you are using.

I would guess that if you set yourself up for a serious OC dive and a serious CCR dive, your walking weight would be about the same.

Dutchy · 4th January 2007, 16:42

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

I dont think most CCR offers significant weight saving over OC. My unit riged and ready to go is 45kg in standard trim.

A KISS or a EVO would be a good choice as i think they are much lighter. A Sport kiss even more so. But they all need more lead than OC

ATB

Mark Chase

Hmmm you're sure? I can dive the SK with alu case with 1kg of lead (Using 300bar steel 3l) when wearing 7mm wetsuit. My buddy can dive it with 235bar 3l and SS case without any lead at all using his 400gr undersuit and wetsuit. (Yes I am not the slimest man in the pond

) So yes there's a lot to be gained. Is it enough? Well that's a different matter... But based on OC comparison I lost 4 kg of lead. That and the lighter configuration itself makes this a relatively comfy config.

Sutty · 4th January 2007, 17:09

I think my kiss is lighter than my twin 12s, not so sure when adding a stage. However you can get the unit and the stage to the boat seperately, so it feels lighter to handle.

Neil

silentscuba · 4th January 2007, 17:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by Sutty)

I think my kiss is lighter than my twin 12s, not so sure when adding a stage. However you can get the unit and the stage to the boat seperately, so it feels lighter to handle.

Neil

I agree, diving a Rebreather you don't have all the weight on until you are just getting into the water. Each piece of equipment is lighter than a large set of twins. But, in the end, you still need about the same amount of weight to conteract your bouyancy.

Mark Chase · 4th January 2007, 18:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dutchy)

Hmmm you're sure? I can dive the SK with alu case with 1kg of lead (Using 300bar steel 3l) when wearing 7mm wetsuit. My buddy can dive it with 235bar 3l and SS case without any lead at all using his 400gr undersuit and wetsuit. (Yes I am not the slimest man in the pond

) So yes there's a lot to be gained. Is it enough? Well that's a different matter... But based on OC comparison I lost 4 kg of lead. That and the lighter configuration itself makes this a relatively comfy config.

On OC I used 2KG of lead. On CCR same suit, same undersuit, I use 6Kg + a SS back plate 2.2Kg. When i first started out i used 10Kg no back plate on the YBOD.

The counter lungs have air in and the scrubber is full of air as are the loop hoses. Thats a lot of gas to sink and it doesn't matter what rig you dive there has to be weight to compensate for it.

The SK is a very small unit si of them all I reckon its the lightest, I reckon the Classic Kiss and Evo are next up then the heavy weights like the YBOD Meg and Finlay the super heavy weights like the Boris

.

ATB

Mark Chase

Gilles · 5th January 2007, 01:14

You should go CCR if you want to add major exhileration to your diving hobby. You will not save weight! If you currently do 100's of hours of Tmx, there might even be a financial advantage.

Russ · 5th January 2007, 04:19

First off sorry about your troubles with your knees

My Inspiration Classic (which is not one of the light units) weighs about 70lbs all set up, this is significantly lighter than a set of doubles, but heavier than a single 80/100 OC set up. Stages will be the same but as it has been said before you can carry those seperate and gear up in the water. If you choose a lighter unit (even an evolution is 2/3 the weight, also check out the sport kiss) you will see a significant difference in how your back/knees feel walking to the dive site and lugging it around.

If you do decide to go CCR think about what your diving limits are and pick a unit that will truly be lighter, don't be fooled into thinking that the smaller lighter units aren't capable of doing the majority of technical dives.

Good luck in your decision, stick around and ask more questions

Russ

decoweenie · 5th January 2007, 04:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

A KISS or a EVO would be a good choice as i think they are much lighter. A Sport kiss even more so. But they all need more lead than OC

Not necessary.

Evo in standard configuration will need more lead than OC since all components are plastics and have low density. Swapping to after-market components later on will drastically reduce the amount of lead required.

Sport-KISS with SS case (instead of AL), SS backplate and SS tanks will be more than sufficient even for trilam. The drawback is higher weight for traveling than with AL case.

4th January 2007, 15:50	#1 (permalink)
brianwl New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: St Louis for now - Phuket soon Posts: 4	Should I Go CCR? I posted this over on DecoStop and someone suggested I post it here as well. I've been giving the idea of moving to a CCR some thought. My main interest is to reduce weight I am carrying at this time. I have bad knees and carrying doubles doesn't work to well. So, considering there is a need to have a bail out bottle when using a CCR, would I actually be gaining anything by going with a CCR? I recognize it would give me significant gains in bottom time, but if I can't carry the gear to get to the dive site, it doesn't matter how much bottom time I can get. Thanks Brian
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4th January 2007, 15:58	#2 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,470	Re: Should I Go CCR? Quote: (Originally Posted by brianwl) I posted this over on DecoStop and someone suggested I post it here as well. I've been giving the idea of moving to a CCR some thought. My main interest is to reduce weight I am carrying at this time. I have bad knees and carrying doubles doesn't work to well. So, considering there is a need to have a bail out bottle when using a CCR, would I actually be gaining anything by going with a CCR? I recognize it would give me significant gains in bottom time, but if I can't carry the gear to get to the dive site, it doesn't matter how much bottom time I can get. Thanks Brian I dont think most CCR offers significant weight saving over OC. My unit riged and ready to go is 45kg in standard trim. A KISS or a EVO would be a good choice as i think they are much lighter. A Sport kiss even more so. But they all need more lead than OC ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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4th January 2007, 16:38	#3 (permalink)
silentscuba rEvo CCR Driver Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic rEvo Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mill Creek, WA USA Posts: 568	Re: Should I Go CCR? My thinking would suggest that your total weight will be about the same OC or CCR, weather it is in your equipment or on a weight belt. With the lighter rebreathers, you have to add weight to your belt. You have to conteract the positive bouyancy of yourself and your drysuit/wetsuit no matter what type of gear you are using. I would guess that if you set yourself up for a serious OC dive and a serious CCR dive, your walking weight would be about the same. __________________ Curt McNamee rEvo CCR Diver KISS CCR Diver www.silentscuba.com
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4th January 2007, 16:42	#4 (permalink)
Dutchy SK#007 Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Nieuwegein (The Netherlands) Posts: 699	Re: Should I Go CCR? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) I dont think most CCR offers significant weight saving over OC. My unit riged and ready to go is 45kg in standard trim. A KISS or a EVO would be a good choice as i think they are much lighter. A Sport kiss even more so. But they all need more lead than OC ATB Mark Chase Hmmm you're sure? I can dive the SK with alu case with 1kg of lead (Using 300bar steel 3l) when wearing 7mm wetsuit. My buddy can dive it with 235bar 3l and SS case without any lead at all using his 400gr undersuit and wetsuit. (Yes I am not the slimest man in the pond ) So yes there's a lot to be gained. Is it enough? Well that's a different matter... But based on OC comparison I lost 4 kg of lead. That and the lighter configuration itself makes this a relatively comfy config. __________________ = This post is environmentally friendly. It is composed of 100% recycled electrons only. = SK #007
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4th January 2007, 17:09	#5 (permalink)
Sutty Classic Kiss diver Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Glossop, Derbyshire, UK Posts: 775	Re: Should I Go CCR? I think my kiss is lighter than my twin 12s, not so sure when adding a stage. However you can get the unit and the stage to the boat seperately, so it feels lighter to handle. Neil __________________ Never forget that life is a finite resource.
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4th January 2007, 17:26	#6 (permalink)
silentscuba rEvo CCR Driver Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic rEvo Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mill Creek, WA USA Posts: 568	Re: Should I Go CCR? Quote: (Originally Posted by Sutty) I think my kiss is lighter than my twin 12s, not so sure when adding a stage. However you can get the unit and the stage to the boat seperately, so it feels lighter to handle. Neil I agree, diving a Rebreather you don't have all the weight on until you are just getting into the water. Each piece of equipment is lighter than a large set of twins. But, in the end, you still need about the same amount of weight to conteract your bouyancy. __________________ Curt McNamee rEvo CCR Diver KISS CCR Diver www.silentscuba.com
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4th January 2007, 18:50	#7 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,470	Re: Should I Go CCR? Quote: (Originally Posted by Dutchy) Hmmm you're sure? I can dive the SK with alu case with 1kg of lead (Using 300bar steel 3l) when wearing 7mm wetsuit. My buddy can dive it with 235bar 3l and SS case without any lead at all using his 400gr undersuit and wetsuit. (Yes I am not the slimest man in the pond ) So yes there's a lot to be gained. Is it enough? Well that's a different matter... But based on OC comparison I lost 4 kg of lead. That and the lighter configuration itself makes this a relatively comfy config. On OC I used 2KG of lead. On CCR same suit, same undersuit, I use 6Kg + a SS back plate 2.2Kg. When i first started out i used 10Kg no back plate on the YBOD. The counter lungs have air in and the scrubber is full of air as are the loop hoses. Thats a lot of gas to sink and it doesn't matter what rig you dive there has to be weight to compensate for it. The SK is a very small unit si of them all I reckon its the lightest, I reckon the Classic Kiss and Evo are next up then the heavy weights like the YBOD Meg and Finlay the super heavy weights like the Boris . ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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5th January 2007, 01:14	#8 (permalink)
Gilles Worship the feminine Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Den Haag (Netherlands) Posts: 761	Re: Should I Go CCR? You should go CCR if you want to add major exhileration to your diving hobby. You will not save weight! If you currently do 100's of hours of Tmx, there might even be a financial advantage. __________________ Gilles http://www.dirrebreather.com
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5th January 2007, 04:19	#9 (permalink)
Russ New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 88	Re: Should I Go CCR? First off sorry about your troubles with your knees My Inspiration Classic (which is not one of the light units) weighs about 70lbs all set up, this is significantly lighter than a set of doubles, but heavier than a single 80/100 OC set up. Stages will be the same but as it has been said before you can carry those seperate and gear up in the water. If you choose a lighter unit (even an evolution is 2/3 the weight, also check out the sport kiss) you will see a significant difference in how your back/knees feel walking to the dive site and lugging it around. If you do decide to go CCR think about what your diving limits are and pick a unit that will truly be lighter, don't be fooled into thinking that the smaller lighter units aren't capable of doing the majority of technical dives. Good luck in your decision, stick around and ask more questions Russ Last edited by Russ : 5th January 2007 at 04:36.
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5th January 2007, 04:44	#10 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Should I Go CCR? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) A KISS or a EVO would be a good choice as i think they are much lighter. A Sport kiss even more so. But they all need more lead than OC Not necessary. Evo in standard configuration will need more lead than OC since all components are plastics and have low density. Swapping to after-market components later on will drastically reduce the amount of lead required. Sport-KISS with SS case (instead of AL), SS backplate and SS tanks will be more than sufficient even for trilam. The drawback is higher weight for traveling than with AL case. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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