diluant choice

**jmurba** · 27th December 2006, 19:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

I believe that I have read there were KISS courses conducted in southern France from time to time. As well as Switzerland.

++++ thanks for info phi but it is a little bit late for me aftr 200 kiss dives....well i would certainly learn a couple of things, but nothing to deserve course....

Personally, I use 10/50 for almost everything down to 90m when I am lazy. When I am not, I blend 10/70 for the local 90m wreck dive.

++++ i am gonna try such a mix to see what is the difference,

ADDited:

Trying to avoid The Shit-stirrer, I just have to mention this again but it has been mentioned many times in the past.

The shallowest wreck we dive locally on the week-end is 72m, and the deepest is 120m. It is not unusual for us to come out to the 72m wreck and see a US warship anchors within 3km (no dive zone), and have to divert to the next deeper wreck (92m). This obviously negates using best-mix-diluent for a dive.

++++ what do think is the best diluant mix for a given depth ?

And I said "almost" is because I use air diluent when teaching.

++++ I hope you don't teach down to 92 m (((((-:

regards

jean mi

***Decodiver*** · 27th December 2006, 20:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba)

++++ you are right...but there are no kiss courses in france... and i don't want to do a yellow box course the only r course available down there...

regards

jean mi

I am a KISS Instructor Trainer based in France, always willing to help if I can........

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

bletso · 27th December 2006, 21:07

Jean Mi,

You could also have an IP creep, which I had once. It increased my PO2 slowly and I had to keep flushing the lungs. I finally found it by using an IP gauge.
Your description of the problem wasn't specific enough. BTW, I use TX18/50 a lot.

Dale

**jmurba** · 27th December 2006, 21:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

I am a KISS Instructor Trainer based in France, always willing to help if I can........

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

Hi dave,

If we could legaly dive in dive centers with non EC approuved machines like the kiss IN france I would have bought a kiss rather then converting my dolphin ....
but diving non ec machines in any organizations in france means taking a big legal and pennal risk.
so getting a kiss ccr card is not worth in france, cause even if I had it I could not buy a kiss and get on a dive boat.
In france those who hate th yellow bow can't
After years of CCR diving I honestly think that it is too late to teach me anything.... ecept details
if the law changes i will have a reason to spend my money

thanks anyway

regards

jean mi

***Decodiver*** · 27th December 2006, 21:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba)

After years of CCR diving I honestly think that it is too late to teach me anything.... ecept details

Jean I have been diving CCR since 1989 and I still learn things.

Your concerns about the legality of certain machines are nullified by your modification to your Dolphin, it is no more a legal CCR than a KISS!

The offer is there anyway, if you are happy that your knowledge is sufficient who am I to disagree?

Kind regards,

Dave.

**jmurba** · 28th December 2006, 21:20

[quote=Decodiver;85844]Jean I have been diving CCR since 1989 and I still learn things.

++++ I've dived from 1979 and I also still learn, I am sure that you would have thing to teach me what i say you is that getting a card that i could not use in a club cause CCR kiss does not exist in France legaly, so what would i do with that ?

Your concerns about the legality of certain machines are nullified by your modification to your Dolphin, it is no more a legal CCR than a KISS!

+++++hey hey hey I am not blaming you to do so, i am just telling you that you don't have the rigth to do it
French law say that the use of non EC rebreather is illegal in any professionnal situation (club, school..etc) ,
I dive privately with my rib so I am in the legal side, if you teach kiss in france you take a big legal risk, I only say that to prevent you from any problem not to blame you, it is great that you fight this stupid law , but the law is stronger that you are...I am a lawyer, I had several cases of lethal accidents in clubs , belive me if a judge has to deal with an accident concerning a student whose instructor has equipped with a non EC rebreather, the instructor will be charge with unvoluntary murder.
a safety law is in the judge mind more inportant then anything else, the jugde will never try to see if it the kiss is one of the safest Rebreather in the world

The offer is there anyway, if you are happy that your knowledge is sufficient who am I to disagree?

+++++ Dave honestly, don't take it personnaly, I am a ****ing old diver, i began diving when i was 12 yars old , i live 500m from my boat, most of the time i do 1 to 2 dives a week except during holidays time where i dive every day....I've degreed trimix oc 10 years ago and did many trimixes dives, I've dived SCr from 96 to 2002 and went on diving trimix scr and then switched to ccr kiss style, I have modified my breather and designed, constructed, programmed a pic gauge where we are on the wy of implement buhlman deco....
so you want to teach a ****ing guy like me ? you ar going to get a big headacke ((((-:
Ok I am far from being better then anyone else, I only dive shallow arround 40/50m , last time i did a smal "peak" down to 55 m and noticed my ppo2 was getting up to 1.45 and that it was dificult to get it down to 1.2 (my usualy "setpoint"), this is why i asked what diluant was good for those kind of depth, asking a question is normal , this not a sign of ignorance, it is just why Rebreather lists are there.
because there not only one rsponse to a question, remenber the argument between the pionner 10 years ago on newdesing list.
is it so great to be able to get the info from big divers that gives you their experience, their different points of view
the diving instructor you are know that the old experieced divers are the worsts to teach....
It would be very difficult for me to take a course where I know 99% of what the instructor says....
This summer I have simply assited to a buddy insp course in ireland.... well appart from the things directly related to the yellow bow, i did not learnt many things, more then that did not aggree a couple of thing that the instructor was teaching his trainees like rebreathing diluant in emergency, group oc bail out sharing , set point choise ...etc....

ok it is certain that any one has to learn, I made the choise to self educate myself, so as a matter of fact i had to learn every diving day.....I would not push my son to do it and would prefer to sign in a tek course....but for me it is over (((-:

on the other hand if the kiss gets a legal satuts in france i will be the first to get a card, cause i wil have reason to do so to be allowed to dive in centers,

please don't take my comments personnal, I am home builder.....not good ccr instructor client sorry....(-:, it is not a question of money cause i spent mutch more money then an inspiration unit and it's ccr course...just a question of opinion.....(((-: just think that thousand of guys are currently building in their garage the plane that thy will pilote 2 years late without having learnt anything about plane construction at school before...it is difficult to understand peolple like us....

regards

jean mi

**jmurba** · 28th December 2006, 21:32

Quote: (Originally Posted by bletso)

Jean Mi,

You could also have an IP creep, which I had once. It increased my PO2 slowly and I had to keep flushing the lungs. I finally found it by using an IP gauge.
Your description of the problem wasn't specific enough. BTW, I use TX18/50 a lot.

Dale

I dale,

as for the IP I have an overpressure valve tuned at 11 bars where my ip is tuned at 10 bars, but it could be the orgin of the problem, on the other hane I dived 1 hours arround 40m this morning and noticed no ppo2 peak this time.

as for my problem description what happend is that I had been u/W at 45 meters for 25' running a 1.2 setpoint I had aire in the dil tank when i decided
get down arround 55m, of course my ppo2 buid up, and i the noticed that even with a couple of flushes the ppo2 was still rather high.
I think tht the profile was not really rebreather correct, i should have gone directly to 55m instead of getting down to 45 m for a long time before getting 15m lower.

regards

jean mi

***Decodiver*** · 28th December 2006, 22:50

Jean Mi,

No problem je te souhaite bonne chance sans rancune!

I wish you the best of luck!

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

**jmurba** · 29th December 2006, 07:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

Jean Mi,

No problem je te souhaite bonne chance sans rancune!

I wish you the best of luck!

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

Salut Dave,

I would like to add that training is more then necessary for those who want to get in ccr world,
It is a cheap safe way to dive ccr.
It took me years of hard work, a big amount of money, re built my dolphin
I did not follow this track only because 8 years ago in the south of france the instuctors that were able to teach had just obtained their certification for 6 month or so, and had no experience.
For me a good CCR instructor is a guy that has done several hundreds of ccr dives, not a newbie
at that time I sould have gone in the UK to get a descent CCR course but I did not have enough money to do so, so my only available solution was to get an insp course with unexperienced instructors in france and i refused that.
As i did not whant to dive an inspiration at all cost, I had no choise but doing it myself....with the help of dale bletso and kerry mc kenzie that had spend hours telling me what to do and not to do...
also the choice of a dolphin was not a money choise , I just wanted to protect the dive center that i dived in from any law problem , as a matter of fact a small kiss valve does not change the general shape of the dolphin and a dive center manager is not supposed to open every rebreather , other wise of course I would have bought a classic kiss to plus and play.
You live in France and then you know that our country is a fantastic place to live except the fact law is in certain fields written by administration (as t is for diving) not by the parliament, so the diving law has been written by people that don't know mutch about sport rebreathers and were advised by professionnals...
We lack liberty in France... it is a shame for the country of human right !!!
this situation was terrible for me who wanted to dive kiss and not ECCR for personnal reasons.
It means that I can't chose my rebreather !!!!
If I was not in love With my Country I would have flown away for years.... The English still have a monarcky but we still have the LOUIS XIV administration !!!!!
So you are completely right to teach KISS down here .
Re-building a machine and doing self education is long expensive and dangerouse, getting a good kiss training and purchassing a kiss to gordon's wife is far better .

regards

jean mi

27th December 2006, 19:52	#11 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 718	Re: diluant choice Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) I believe that I have read there were KISS courses conducted in southern France from time to time. As well as Switzerland. ++++ thanks for info phi but it is a little bit late for me aftr 200 kiss dives....well i would certainly learn a couple of things, but nothing to deserve course.... Personally, I use 10/50 for almost everything down to 90m when I am lazy. When I am not, I blend 10/70 for the local 90m wreck dive. ++++ i am gonna try such a mix to see what is the difference, ADDited: Trying to avoid The Shit-stirrer, I just have to mention this again but it has been mentioned many times in the past. The shallowest wreck we dive locally on the week-end is 72m, and the deepest is 120m. It is not unusual for us to come out to the 72m wreck and see a US warship anchors within 3km (no dive zone), and have to divert to the next deeper wreck (92m). This obviously negates using best-mix-diluent for a dive. ++++ what do think is the best diluant mix for a given depth ? And I said "almost" is because I use air diluent when teaching. ++++ I hope you don't teach down to 92 m (((((-: regards jean mi
(Online)

27th December 2006, 20:28	#12 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,179	Re: diluant choice Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba) ++++ you are right...but there are no kiss courses in france... and i don't want to do a yellow box course the only r course available down there... regards jean mi I am a KISS Instructor Trainer based in France, always willing to help if I can........ Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions Last edited by Decodiver : 27th December 2006 at 20:30.
(Offline)

27th December 2006, 21:07	#13 (permalink)
bletso An independent diver. Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: Louisville, KY, USA Posts: 238	Re: diluant choice Jean Mi, You could also have an IP creep, which I had once. It increased my PO2 slowly and I had to keep flushing the lungs. I finally found it by using an IP gauge. Your description of the problem wasn't specific enough. BTW, I use TX18/50 a lot. Dale
(Online)

27th December 2006, 21:10	#14 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 718	Re: diluant choice Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver) I am a KISS Instructor Trainer based in France, always willing to help if I can........ Cheers, Dave Cooper. Hi dave, If we could legaly dive in dive centers with non EC approuved machines like the kiss IN france I would have bought a kiss rather then converting my dolphin .... but diving non ec machines in any organizations in france means taking a big legal and pennal risk. so getting a kiss ccr card is not worth in france, cause even if I had it I could not buy a kiss and get on a dive boat. In france those who hate th yellow bow can't After years of CCR diving I honestly think that it is too late to teach me anything.... ecept details if the law changes i will have a reason to spend my money thanks anyway regards jean mi
(Online)

27th December 2006, 21:39	#15 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,179	Re: diluant choice Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba) After years of CCR diving I honestly think that it is too late to teach me anything.... ecept details Jean I have been diving CCR since 1989 and I still learn things. Your concerns about the legality of certain machines are nullified by your modification to your Dolphin, it is no more a legal CCR than a KISS! The offer is there anyway, if you are happy that your knowledge is sufficient who am I to disagree? Kind regards, Dave. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
(Offline)

28th December 2006, 21:20	#16 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 718	Re: diluant choice [quote=Decodiver;85844]Jean I have been diving CCR since 1989 and I still learn things. ++++ I've dived from 1979 and I also still learn, I am sure that you would have thing to teach me what i say you is that getting a card that i could not use in a club cause CCR kiss does not exist in France legaly, so what would i do with that ? Your concerns about the legality of certain machines are nullified by your modification to your Dolphin, it is no more a legal CCR than a KISS! +++++hey hey hey I am not blaming you to do so, i am just telling you that you don't have the rigth to do it French law say that the use of non EC rebreather is illegal in any professionnal situation (club, school..etc) , I dive privately with my rib so I am in the legal side, if you teach kiss in france you take a big legal risk, I only say that to prevent you from any problem not to blame you, it is great that you fight this stupid law , but the law is stronger that you are...I am a lawyer, I had several cases of lethal accidents in clubs , belive me if a judge has to deal with an accident concerning a student whose instructor has equipped with a non EC rebreather, the instructor will be charge with unvoluntary murder. a safety law is in the judge mind more inportant then anything else, the jugde will never try to see if it the kiss is one of the safest Rebreather in the world The offer is there anyway, if you are happy that your knowledge is sufficient who am I to disagree? +++++ Dave honestly, don't take it personnaly, I am a **ing old diver, i began diving when i was 12 yars old , i live 500m from my boat, most of the time i do 1 to 2 dives a week except during holidays time where i dive every day....I've degreed trimix oc 10 years ago and did many trimixes dives, I've dived SCr from 96 to 2002 and went on diving trimix scr and then switched to ccr kiss style, I have modified my breather and designed, constructed, programmed a pic gauge where we are on the wy of implement buhlman deco.... so you want to teach a **ing guy like me ? you ar going to get a big headacke ((((-: Ok I am far from being better then anyone else, I only dive shallow arround 40/50m , last time i did a smal "peak" down to 55 m and noticed my ppo2 was getting up to 1.45 and that it was dificult to get it down to 1.2 (my usualy "setpoint"), this is why i asked what diluant was good for those kind of depth, asking a question is normal , this not a sign of ignorance, it is just why Rebreather lists are there. because there not only one rsponse to a question, remenber the argument between the pionner 10 years ago on newdesing list. is it so great to be able to get the info from big divers that gives you their experience, their different points of view the diving instructor you are know that the old experieced divers are the worsts to teach.... It would be very difficult for me to take a course where I know 99% of what the instructor says.... This summer I have simply assited to a buddy insp course in ireland.... well appart from the things directly related to the yellow bow, i did not learnt many things, more then that did not aggree a couple of thing that the instructor was teaching his trainees like rebreathing diluant in emergency, group oc bail out sharing , set point choise ...etc.... ok it is certain that any one has to learn, I made the choise to self educate myself, so as a matter of fact i had to learn every diving day.....I would not push my son to do it and would prefer to sign in a tek course....but for me it is over (((-: on the other hand if the kiss gets a legal satuts in france i will be the first to get a card, cause i wil have reason to do so to be allowed to dive in centers, please don't take my comments personnal, I am home builder.....not good ccr instructor client sorry....(-:, it is not a question of money cause i spent mutch more money then an inspiration unit and it's ccr course...just a question of opinion.....(((-: just think that thousand of guys are currently building in their garage the plane that thy will pilote 2 years late without having learnt anything about plane construction at school before...it is difficult to understand peolple like us.... regards jean mi
(Online)

28th December 2006, 21:32	#17 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 718	Re: diluant choice Quote: (Originally Posted by bletso) Jean Mi, You could also have an IP creep, which I had once. It increased my PO2 slowly and I had to keep flushing the lungs. I finally found it by using an IP gauge. Your description of the problem wasn't specific enough. BTW, I use TX18/50 a lot. Dale I dale, as for the IP I have an overpressure valve tuned at 11 bars where my ip is tuned at 10 bars, but it could be the orgin of the problem, on the other hane I dived 1 hours arround 40m this morning and noticed no ppo2 peak this time. as for my problem description what happend is that I had been u/W at 45 meters for 25' running a 1.2 setpoint I had aire in the dil tank when i decided get down arround 55m, of course my ppo2 buid up, and i the noticed that even with a couple of flushes the ppo2 was still rather high. I think tht the profile was not really rebreather correct, i should have gone directly to 55m instead of getting down to 45 m for a long time before getting 15m lower. regards jean mi
(Online)

28th December 2006, 22:50	#18 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,179	Re: diluant choice Jean Mi, No problem je te souhaite bonne chance sans rancune! I wish you the best of luck! Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
(Offline)

29th December 2006, 07:38	#19 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 718	Re: diluant choice Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver) Jean Mi, No problem je te souhaite bonne chance sans rancune! I wish you the best of luck! Cheers, Dave Cooper. Salut Dave, I would like to add that training is more then necessary for those who want to get in ccr world, It is a cheap safe way to dive ccr. It took me years of hard work, a big amount of money, re built my dolphin I did not follow this track only because 8 years ago in the south of france the instuctors that were able to teach had just obtained their certification for 6 month or so, and had no experience. For me a good CCR instructor is a guy that has done several hundreds of ccr dives, not a newbie at that time I sould have gone in the UK to get a descent CCR course but I did not have enough money to do so, so my only available solution was to get an insp course with unexperienced instructors in france and i refused that. As i did not whant to dive an inspiration at all cost, I had no choise but doing it myself....with the help of dale bletso and kerry mc kenzie that had spend hours telling me what to do and not to do... also the choice of a dolphin was not a money choise , I just wanted to protect the dive center that i dived in from any law problem , as a matter of fact a small kiss valve does not change the general shape of the dolphin and a dive center manager is not supposed to open every rebreather , other wise of course I would have bought a classic kiss to plus and play. You live in France and then you know that our country is a fantastic place to live except the fact law is in certain fields written by administration (as t is for diving) not by the parliament, so the diving law has been written by people that don't know mutch about sport rebreathers and were advised by professionnals... We lack liberty in France... it is a shame for the country of human right !!! this situation was terrible for me who wanted to dive kiss and not ECCR for personnal reasons. It means that I can't chose my rebreather !!!! If I was not in love With my Country I would have flown away for years.... The English still have a monarcky but we still have the LOUIS XIV administration !!!!! So you are completely right to teach KISS down here . Re-building a machine and doing self education is long expensive and dangerouse, getting a good kiss training and purchassing a kiss to gordon's wife is far better . regards jean mi
(Online)

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