the extended air advantage

grandizer52 · 18th December 2006, 07:59

Question, FOR ALL divers who's diving the extended air...and why. who's still diving divesorb,sodasorb, kittielitter DA ROX. going on a trip here soon, should you go with enough cartidges to cover your ass, or should i bring a small can of sorb? where i'm going they do rebreathers but don't supply sorb.
so if you made the step...why?
feel free to give me your + and - about it,
laytah
steve
and if you've never dove a dolphin...you ain't nothing

DivnSapper · 18th December 2006, 08:36

I dive ExtendAir cartridges... yeah they are more expensive but IMO easier to ship because the customs guys (at least the ones I get to deal with) don't give me the "whats the pellet / powdery white stuff in here and what are you going to use it for" routine.

And they are convienent... drop it in and voila... ready to dive. Now with the test stats available, I really know what they are capable of and how far I can use them and still be safe. (I use mine for four dives (up to four hours) in tropical water at generally shallow depths ~60ft).

They are also easy to store / switch out; easy to clean up after; and give you a bit more room in the Dolphin compartment (although since the scrubber is round it does pokes you in the back a little bit)

Converted my Dolphin over immediatly after my Cert course... never looked back!

Ryan

Gilles · 18th December 2006, 09:24

Quote: (Originally Posted by DivnSapper)

I dive ExtendAir cartridges... yeah they are more expensive but IMO easier to ship because the customs guys (at least the ones I get to deal with) don't give me the "whats the pellet / powdery white stuff in here and what are you going to use it for" routine.

And they are convienent... drop it in and voila... ready to dive. Now with the test stats available, I really know what they are capable of and how far I can use them and still be safe. (I use mine for four dives (up to four hours) in tropical water at generally shallow depths ~60ft).

They are also easy to store / switch out; easy to clean up after; and give you a bit more room in the Dolphin compartment (although since the scrubber is round it does pokes you in the back a little bit)

Converted my Dolphin over immediatly after my Cert course... never looked back!

Ryan

I use loose sorb in my axial scrubber (packed tightly) that has a capacity just under 2.5 Kg's. In 28 degC water, I typically run it up to 8 hours (for depths to 40m). I've experienced a hit once when not pre-breathed appropriately.

On 50m ish dives, I'll change on the 4th hour.

***jradomski*** · 18th December 2006, 09:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by grandizer52)

Question, FOR ALL divers who's diving the extended air...and why. who's still diving divesorb,sodasorb, kittielitter DA ROX. going on a trip here soon, should you go with enough cartidges to cover your ass, or should i bring a small can of sorb? where i'm going they do rebreathers but don't supply sorb.
so if you made the step...why?
feel free to give me your + and - about it,
laytah
steve
and if you've never dove a dolphin...you ain't nothing

neg - Harder to travel with

Neg- not enviromentally friendly

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 18th December 2006, 15:51

I have drawn enough friendly retorts for my position on the issue.

Run a search for my prior posts if you wish to see my biased opinion.

***EBT*** · 18th December 2006, 16:09

hmmm THIS made for interesting reading.... as did the results at the DiveRite website. The two don't seem entirely consistent. The Optimas can is quoted as carrying 4lbs of EAC, rated for four hours (sorb rule of thumb being a pound per hour) this doesnt seem to show a dramatic performance improvement.

Bit of a digression I know, but are any of the manufacturers planning to conduct CE testing?

paulraymaekers · 18th December 2006, 16:24

Quote: (Originally Posted by EBT)

hmmm THIS made for interesting reading....

com'on guys, THIS is a publicity flyer, with no serious scientific data

I could with the same colours just make a drawing that gives opposite results :-)

paul

MarkZ · 18th December 2006, 17:05

Tests for interesting reading, interesting for who? Even forgetting the fact that the EAC's are significantly more expensive, are not environmentally friendly and not easier to travel with the duration comparison is simply not true. Silent Diving had a side by side comparison done a year or so ago by an independent lab and the EAC's not only did not perform as well they were lacking to the extent that the adapters are no longer available. I personally have nothing against the EAC's as the company is local, they are a nice idea, and they do make changing scrubber easier but I really resent false hype of advantages. Comparing apples to apples EAC's simply are an easier way to change scrubber that one must pay a high price in a couple of ways over the traditional scrubber types.

***EBT*** · 18th December 2006, 17:12

For me..... sorry if it bored you. I like to drill down past the advertising/hype/word of mouth and for me the interesting bit is the difference between reports/recommendations and the lack of a DECENT test report.

I guess I was making the point "would you trust these guys, really?"

***caveseeker7*** · 18th December 2006, 17:18

Steam Machines did some testing years ago with a solid state scrubber (absorbant mounted to a rolled grid - NOT the Micropore ExtendAir cartridges!).

They tested it on the old axial scrubber they had from the SCR prototypes as well as in the annular axial 15.5 scrubber. The results they got were better performance in the axial, less time in the annular axial and far from the 5.4 lbs radial.

So that graph may have some truth to it, however it's worthless without knowing what scrubber was tested in which unit.

Since it has been posted there for a long time my guess would be stock vs their own in a Dolphin. Could well be, as the Dolphin's scrubber isn't insulated.

In the Inspo the results may well be the opposite as the scrubber is insulated and the cartridge mounted with an adapter rather than being in a can that's developed for it. The same I would asume is true for the Meg.

18th December 2006, 07:59	#1 (permalink)
grandizer52 Sport Kiss & Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: pearl city hawaii EARTH moving to Iscandar Posts: 254	the extended air advantage Question, FOR ALL divers who's diving the extended air...and why. who's still diving divesorb,sodasorb, kittielitter DA ROX. going on a trip here soon, should you go with enough cartidges to cover your ass, or should i bring a small can of sorb? where i'm going they do rebreathers but don't supply sorb. so if you made the step...why? feel free to give me your + and - about it, laytah steve and if you've never dove a dolphin...you ain't nothing
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18th December 2006, 08:36	#2 (permalink)
DivnSapper New Member Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Qatar Posts: 83	Re: the extended air advantage I dive ExtendAir cartridges... yeah they are more expensive but IMO easier to ship because the customs guys (at least the ones I get to deal with) don't give me the "whats the pellet / powdery white stuff in here and what are you going to use it for" routine. And they are convienent... drop it in and voila... ready to dive. Now with the test stats available, I really know what they are capable of and how far I can use them and still be safe. (I use mine for four dives (up to four hours) in tropical water at generally shallow depths ~60ft). They are also easy to store / switch out; easy to clean up after; and give you a bit more room in the Dolphin compartment (although since the scrubber is round it does pokes you in the back a little bit) Converted my Dolphin over immediatly after my Cert course... never looked back! Ryan
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18th December 2006, 09:24	#3 (permalink)
Gilles Worship the feminine Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Den Haag (Netherlands) Posts: 761	Re: the extended air advantage Quote: (Originally Posted by DivnSapper) I dive ExtendAir cartridges... yeah they are more expensive but IMO easier to ship because the customs guys (at least the ones I get to deal with) don't give me the "whats the pellet / powdery white stuff in here and what are you going to use it for" routine. And they are convienent... drop it in and voila... ready to dive. Now with the test stats available, I really know what they are capable of and how far I can use them and still be safe. (I use mine for four dives (up to four hours) in tropical water at generally shallow depths ~60ft). They are also easy to store / switch out; easy to clean up after; and give you a bit more room in the Dolphin compartment (although since the scrubber is round it does pokes you in the back a little bit) Converted my Dolphin over immediatly after my Cert course... never looked back! Ryan I use loose sorb in my axial scrubber (packed tightly) that has a capacity just under 2.5 Kg's. In 28 degC water, I typically run it up to 8 hours (for depths to 40m). I've experienced a hit once when not pre-breathed appropriately. On 50m ish dives, I'll change on the 4th hour. __________________ Gilles http://www.dirrebreather.com
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18th December 2006, 09:48	#4 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,799	Re: the extended air advantage Quote: (Originally Posted by grandizer52) Question, FOR ALL divers who's diving the extended air...and why. who's still diving divesorb,sodasorb, kittielitter DA ROX. going on a trip here soon, should you go with enough cartidges to cover your ass, or should i bring a small can of sorb? where i'm going they do rebreathers but don't supply sorb. so if you made the step...why? feel free to give me your + and - about it, laytah steve and if you've never dove a dolphin...you ain't nothing neg - Harder to travel with Neg- not enviromentally friendly __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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18th December 2006, 15:51	#5 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,896	Re: the extended air advantage I have drawn enough friendly retorts for my position on the issue. Run a search for my prior posts if you wish to see my biased opinion. __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
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18th December 2006, 16:09	#6 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,836	Re: the extended air advantage hmmm THIS made for interesting reading.... as did the results at the DiveRite website. The two don't seem entirely consistent. The Optimas can is quoted as carrying 4lbs of EAC, rated for four hours (sorb rule of thumb being a pound per hour) this doesnt seem to show a dramatic performance improvement. Bit of a digression I know, but are any of the manufacturers planning to conduct CE testing? __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
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18th December 2006, 16:24	#7 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,351	Re: the extended air advantage Quote: (Originally Posted by EBT) hmmm THIS made for interesting reading.... com'on guys, THIS is a publicity flyer, with no serious scientific data I could with the same colours just make a drawing that gives opposite results :-) paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
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18th December 2006, 17:05	#8 (permalink)
MarkZ New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: PA USA Posts: 48	Re: the extended air advantage Tests for interesting reading, interesting for who? Even forgetting the fact that the EAC's are significantly more expensive, are not environmentally friendly and not easier to travel with the duration comparison is simply not true. Silent Diving had a side by side comparison done a year or so ago by an independent lab and the EAC's not only did not perform as well they were lacking to the extent that the adapters are no longer available. I personally have nothing against the EAC's as the company is local, they are a nice idea, and they do make changing scrubber easier but I really resent false hype of advantages. Comparing apples to apples EAC's simply are an easier way to change scrubber that one must pay a high price in a couple of ways over the traditional scrubber types.
(Offline)

18th December 2006, 17:12	#9 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,836	Re: the extended air advantage For me..... sorry if it bored you. I like to drill down past the advertising/hype/word of mouth and for me the interesting bit is the difference between reports/recommendations and the lack of a DECENT test report. I guess I was making the point "would you trust these guys, really?" __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
(Offline)

18th December 2006, 17:18	#10 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,287	Re: the extended air advantage Steam Machines did some testing years ago with a solid state scrubber (absorbant mounted to a rolled grid - NOT the Micropore ExtendAir cartridges!). They tested it on the old axial scrubber they had from the SCR prototypes as well as in the annular axial 15.5 scrubber. The results they got were better performance in the axial, less time in the annular axial and far from the 5.4 lbs radial. So that graph may have some truth to it, however it's worthless without knowing what scrubber was tested in which unit. Since it has been posted there for a long time my guess would be stock vs their own in a Dolphin. Could well be, as the Dolphin's scrubber isn't insulated. In the Inspo the results may well be the opposite as the scrubber is insulated and the cartridge mounted with an adapter rather than being in a can that's developed for it. The same I would asume is true for the Meg. __________________ Cheers Stefan Be Water, My Friend - Bruce Lee Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
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