Pre-Poll Topics Wanted

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 13th December 2006, 03:26

If you had to pick one skill that you would consider to be the riskiest during a rebreather dive (could be a normal function such as PPO2 monitoring or an emergency skill such as bailing out), what would that be?

Rather than make a poll and then have a bunch of suggestions for all of the things that I forgot to include, I am going to make this first post so that we can gather up to ten items to include on the poll list. After, I will make this into a poll so that everyone can look over the list and then vote.

No real need to elaborate on your reasoning here; you can do that after making your vote in the poll. For now, you can just reply with the name of the skill or function.

Have fun!

**Steve** · 13th December 2006, 03:36

It really depends on the unit so to take it leftfield a bit, the riskiest skill is pre dive = Adequate preparation. During the dive = knowing ones pO2.

decoweenie · 13th December 2006, 03:46

IMHO, OC-bail-out.

It is dangerous because (in random order):

Lack of practice: It is hardly ever done *completely* from bottom to surface (including deco), except may be in the controlled environment of a course.
Inadequate: Most people (that I know) underestimate the amount of OC gas required in a REAL OC-bail-out scenario.
Ability: Depending on the individual configuration, it could be very fast to switch via BOV or having to fight the breathing urge (CO2 break-thru, over breath unit) to swap DSV to OC reg.
Mindset: A lot of people might try to stay on the unit longer than necessary when dealing with problematic issues - which could be fatal if not bailing out in time. This could be from the mindset of staying on the loop mentality at all cost, and/or lack of adequate OC-bail-out...

I might be stating the obvious here... All dive gear (CC, OC) WILL fail at some point. The more one dives, the more likelihood one will face a failure. The more serious the dive, the more likelihood that the failure will be fatal. So continue to practice all bail-out skills (self or buddy) as much as possible so when the time comes, you could do it calmly.

Again, just IMHO.

RonMicjan · 13th December 2006, 04:55

remove and replacing the CCR unit, while wearing a FFM, midwater, with sharks circling, and a deco obligation...

ok, how about just the first two... I have done it, it aint easy...

decoweenie · 13th December 2006, 05:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan)

remove and replacing the CCR unit, while wearing a FFM, midwater, with sharks circling, and a deco obligation...

Was there a practical purpose to this skill, or were you bored ?

RonMicjan · 13th December 2006, 05:38

total boredom...learned to make sure the P port locks in completely through...

ok, i knew that actualy, but the hoses were tweaked a bit and it didnt snap in all the way...

onetime · 13th December 2006, 13:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan)

remove and replacing the CCR unit, while wearing a FFM, midwater, with sharks circling, and a deco obligation...

ok, how about just the first two... I have done it, it aint easy...

Well, I'd definitely wager that the OP would not have thought of that one on the poll.

Joe · 13th December 2006, 14:19

I'm not challanging your opinion because you teach and I don't, but, I find it hard to believe that at this level of diving OC bail out is anything less than second nature, especially considering it is really nothing more than doing a gas switch. OTOH, considering you teach and observe more more divers than those of us who do not, you are probably right about this and that is very scary.

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

IMHO, OC-bail-out.

It is dangerous because (in random order):

Lack of practice: It is hardly ever done *completely* from bottom to surface (including deco), except may be in the controlled environment of a course.
Inadequate: Most people (that I know) underestimate the amount of OC gas required in a REAL OC-bail-out scenario.
Ability: Depending on the individual configuration, it could be very fast to switch via BOV or having to fight the breathing urge (CO2 break-thru, over breath unit) to swap DSV to OC reg.
Mindset: A lot of people might try to stay on the unit longer than necessary when dealing with problematic issues - which could be fatal if not bailing out in time. This could be from the mindset of staying on the loop mentality at all cost, and/or lack of adequate OC-bail-out...

I might be stating the obvious here... All dive gear (CC, OC) WILL fail at some point. The more one dives, the more likelihood one will face a failure. The more serious the dive, the more likelihood that the failure will be fatal. So continue to practice all bail-out skills (self or buddy) as much as possible so when the time comes, you could do it calmly.

Again, just IMHO.

Joe · 13th December 2006, 14:27

I have to agree with Steve here.

IMO, the riskiest aspect of Rebreather diving is how you deal with the sensors and calibration. Were the data available, I'd be willing to bet that most fatalities could be traced back to some form of calibration or sensor error.

I'd be curious about how many people calibrate before each day of diving, how often they check the calibration and how many check sensor linearity before diving.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve)

It really depends on the unit so to take it leftfield a bit, the riskiest skill is pre dive = Adequate preparation. During the dive = knowing ones pO2.

Ben Field · 13th December 2006, 15:55

Some suggestions-

Full OC Bailout, ie- deploying stage reg in Sh*t Vs Fan scenario. (not BOV)

Buoyancy control in high task load ascent/descent, can run away (up or down) pretty quickly if not checked.

Missed step in Pre-dive checks (could be simply as drysuit inflate not connected)

CBL, ever done one on another OC/CCR diver?

13th December 2006, 03:26	#1 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,939	Pre-Poll Topics Wanted If you had to pick one skill that you would consider to be the riskiest during a rebreather dive (could be a normal function such as PPO2 monitoring or an emergency skill such as bailing out), what would that be? Rather than make a poll and then have a bunch of suggestions for all of the things that I forgot to include, I am going to make this first post so that we can gather up to ten items to include on the poll list. After, I will make this into a poll so that everyone can look over the list and then vote. No real need to elaborate on your reasoning here; you can do that after making your vote in the poll. For now, you can just reply with the name of the skill or function. Have fun! __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
(Online)

13th December 2006, 03:36	#2 (permalink)
Steve Ladies bring a plate Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth - Australia Posts: 1,070	Re: Pre-Poll Topics Wanted It really depends on the unit so to take it leftfield a bit, the riskiest skill is pre dive = Adequate preparation. During the dive = knowing ones pO2. __________________ WARNING: I contain occasional coarse language, extreme sexual references, nudity, and adult themes, which may offend some people - Usually churchy types.
(Offline)

13th December 2006, 03:46	#3 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Pre-Poll Topics Wanted IMHO, OC-bail-out. It is dangerous because (in random order): Lack of practice: It is hardly ever done completely from bottom to surface (including deco), except may be in the controlled environment of a course. Inadequate: Most people (that I know) underestimate the amount of OC gas required in a REAL OC-bail-out scenario. Ability: Depending on the individual configuration, it could be very fast to switch via BOV or having to fight the breathing urge (CO2 break-thru, over breath unit) to swap DSV to OC reg. Mindset: A lot of people might try to stay on the unit longer than necessary when dealing with problematic issues - which could be fatal if not bailing out in time. This could be from the mindset of staying on the loop mentality at all cost, and/or lack of adequate OC-bail-out... I might be stating the obvious here... All dive gear (CC, OC) WILL fail at some point. The more one dives, the more likelihood one will face a failure. The more serious the dive, the more likelihood that the failure will be fatal. So continue to practice all bail-out skills (self or buddy) as much as possible so when the time comes, you could do it calmly. Again, just IMHO. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
(Offline)

13th December 2006, 04:55	#4 (permalink)
RonMicjan Cap Ron scourge of the NW Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Disapointment, The Graveyard of the Pacific Posts: 1,082	Re: Pre-Poll Topics Wanted remove and replacing the CCR unit, while wearing a FFM, midwater, with sharks circling, and a deco obligation... ok, how about just the first two... I have done it, it aint easy... __________________ Ron "Life is pain princess, anyone who tells you different, is selling something", The Dread Pirate Wesley. www.tmishop.com Diving bits etc.
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13th December 2006, 05:18	#5 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Pre-Poll Topics Wanted Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan) remove and replacing the CCR unit, while wearing a FFM, midwater, with sharks circling, and a deco obligation... Was there a practical purpose to this skill, or were you bored ? __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
(Offline)

13th December 2006, 05:38	#6 (permalink)
RonMicjan Cap Ron scourge of the NW Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Disapointment, The Graveyard of the Pacific Posts: 1,082	Re: Pre-Poll Topics Wanted total boredom...learned to make sure the P port locks in completely through... ok, i knew that actualy, but the hoses were tweaked a bit and it didnt snap in all the way... __________________ Ron "Life is pain princess, anyone who tells you different, is selling something", The Dread Pirate Wesley. www.tmishop.com Diving bits etc.
(Offline)

13th December 2006, 13:38	#7 (permalink)
onetime Classic KISSer #138 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: US, NJ Posts: 655	Re: Pre-Poll Topics Wanted Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan) remove and replacing the CCR unit, while wearing a FFM, midwater, with sharks circling, and a deco obligation... ok, how about just the first two... I have done it, it aint easy... Well, I'd definitely wager that the OP would not have thought of that one on the poll.
(Offline)

13th December 2006, 14:19	#8 (permalink)
Joe Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 240	Re: Pre-Poll Topics Wanted I'm not challanging your opinion because you teach and I don't, but, I find it hard to believe that at this level of diving OC bail out is anything less than second nature, especially considering it is really nothing more than doing a gas switch. OTOH, considering you teach and observe more more divers than those of us who do not, you are probably right about this and that is very scary. Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) IMHO, OC-bail-out. It is dangerous because (in random order): Lack of practice: It is hardly ever done completely from bottom to surface (including deco), except may be in the controlled environment of a course. Inadequate: Most people (that I know) underestimate the amount of OC gas required in a REAL OC-bail-out scenario. Ability: Depending on the individual configuration, it could be very fast to switch via BOV or having to fight the breathing urge (CO2 break-thru, over breath unit) to swap DSV to OC reg. Mindset: A lot of people might try to stay on the unit longer than necessary when dealing with problematic issues - which could be fatal if not bailing out in time. This could be from the mindset of staying on the loop mentality at all cost, and/or lack of adequate OC-bail-out... I might be stating the obvious here... All dive gear (CC, OC) WILL fail at some point. The more one dives, the more likelihood one will face a failure. The more serious the dive, the more likelihood that the failure will be fatal. So continue to practice all bail-out skills (self or buddy) as much as possible so when the time comes, you could do it calmly. Again, just IMHO.
(Offline)

13th December 2006, 14:27	#9 (permalink)
Joe Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 240	Re: Pre-Poll Topics Wanted I have to agree with Steve here. IMO, the riskiest aspect of Rebreather diving is how you deal with the sensors and calibration. Were the data available, I'd be willing to bet that most fatalities could be traced back to some form of calibration or sensor error. I'd be curious about how many people calibrate before each day of diving, how often they check the calibration and how many check sensor linearity before diving. Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve) It really depends on the unit so to take it leftfield a bit, the riskiest skill is pre dive = Adequate preparation. During the dive = knowing ones pO2.
(Offline)

13th December 2006, 15:55	#10 (permalink)
Ben Field CK+Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 1,485	Re: Pre-Poll Topics Wanted Some suggestions- Full OC Bailout, ie- deploying stage reg in Sht Vs Fan scenario. (not BOV) Buoyancy control in high task load ascent/descent, can run away (up or down) pretty quickly if not checked. Missed step in Pre-dive checks (could be simply as drysuit inflate not connected) CBL, ever done one on another OC/CCR diver? __________________ www.hugsac.org.uk Beware Fridge Suck*
(Online)

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