Recompression Chamber Out of Date

nitrojunkie

Out of date or not it's great to have. I'm all for seeing it recertified but when you need a chamber the closest one is probably the best one you can have. When it's 10' away from the back deck and minutes to a dry and hydrated 60' on pure o2 vs. jumping back in the drink kind of a no brainer.

Kind off crap behavior by NUS. Is devo actually speaking for the company? Andrew and Mad Dog is one of the finest operations I've ever dived with and I appreciate the fact that on relatively extreme dives there is a chamber around.


Doug

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www.TheDepthFinder.com

PaulTG2

Hello,

It certainly looks like the boat and captain have alot of support. For my part, anyone who goes to the level of having a chamber onboard gets a HUGE step up in my list. I'd definately prefer to dive with that onboard than not... in certification preferably, but I would certainly not refuse it if I needed it and it was out of cert.

I would NEVER do business with a company who took an issue they had with a customer and made it public in this manner. It simply isn't professional. The primary result is to hurt the business of the company using their product until the company complies with their demand. It certainly doesn't come across as a "public health service" announcement.

I'd have to say that it comes across, IMHO, as a company unhappy with loosing a sale to someone who purchased a used chamber. They seem, IMHO, to be trying to use public pressure to get the company to recert the chamber so they get their cut.

In the long run a company will not be successful if they do things to the determent of their customers. I think it is clear which of these two companies have their customer's interest most in mind.

--p

DepthCharge

I think that post #17 somewhat explains what the intention is. It sounds like that the company has an "obligation" (legal/contractual?) to track and report on the chambers. It maybe part of being able to manufacture/sell the units.
However, I'm with everyone else. It's impressive that Andrew has one, and I wouldn't hesitate to jump in if I needed it.

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Later,
John

It's better to beg forgiveness than ask permission

abowie

Will you be listing the names of the owners of all the other chambers out there that are out of certification too?

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Andrew Bowie

Rebreather-friendly Buddy

AD_ward9

Paul has hit the nail on the head in summing up the first post on this thread. Sorry for this long post, but a few matters supporting Paul's points are worth disclosing.

Having made the mistake myself of buying a chamber and putting it on one of our dive vessels in the interests of safety (Loyal Mediator, 120m rated, 5ft diameter and fairly long, bought straight from the DDRC with check and installation by the manufacturer), here are some things worth a ponder:

1. Buying a chamber is cheap. Less than a decent compressor.

2. Operating it is a nightmare. The hospitals with chambers have put things in place so you cannot operate a chamber on a boat. They charge more than the cost of a chamber to treat just one person, and do not want your competition. IMHO/Experience.

We got to the situation that if any of the owners were bent, we can treat ourselves in the chamber, but if we treated anyone else even for first aid in the chamber we would be stuffed, vessel impounded etc.

To help someone:

1. You have to be diver medical technicians (not to be confused with a diver with a PADI First Aid Cert ). OK, we sent some staff on the 10 day course where they cut up corpses, go along with ambulance crews, insert catheters etc, and be certified chamber operators: easy, just another course.

2. You have to be supervised by a doctor. A guy on call is OK. For a chamber, low and behold, the doctors that can do this sort of specialist thing, work for chambers, which you are competing with.

3. You have to have the chamber and all the little bits certified. Sounds simple. Think again. Three times the price of the chamber. Bibs and comms systems.

4. You need serious gas reserves. We had two quads (16 J Cylinders in each), plus a plumbed in cylinder bank, big Rix, HSM panel - remember you have to mix and pump pure O2 to treat someone to all the tables. All that lot only just makes it. To put that lot on a vessel, along with a few ton of chamber, you need about a 200 ton vessel and repaint the waterline: hence Loyal Mediator is about the minimum size to try this with - much bigger than normal dive boats . Anything smaller and you lose your MCA cert as you can no longer survive a one compartment flood on the vessel.

The chamber and associated kit does not help the handling in rough seas. You will have more seasick passengers

OK, it is less with a 1 man chamber, but then how do you help a guy in the chamber ... problems get worse not better. You need to be able to evacuate the patient out of your chamber also: interlocks etc, are not features of 1 man chambers.

Basically, the system is geared against divers. You have a really good working chamber, that just came straight out of a hospital, but are not allowed to use it.

But if your buddy wants to jump in and do in-water deco, in a plastic bag with some weights on it which he carries with him (like a micro diving bell), then that is OK. It is so unconventional, they have not got around to banning it yet by putting so much legislation on it is impossible to do - like for real chambers. It is really cheap, as you do not have to pressurise. You just need a good winch (certified by the MCA for use with a human - another story), and a good buddy.

Seeing posts like the first one on this thread, brings back memories and cheeses me off. I agree with you Paul, companies that act in the way you describe, are just acting as thugs. What they have done is allegedly blackmail, in the common definition of the word (I am sure a court will say otherwise, the unjust centres for employment of lawyers that they are, hence the word "allegedly"). Not the pucker thing to do. It is not really in the interest of safety, it is in the interest of their revenue IMHO. A very different thing, so let us not mince words. Best wishes for MDE in fighting this scourge.

Cheers,

Alex
NB: I have been waiting to use the puke smilies for a long time!

caveseeker7

If anyone strongly disaproves with the post you have the option of clicking the little GREEN SCREEN ICON (REPUTATION) on the very left at the bottom of the post. Select "disaprove", give a brief comment so the poster know what irked you on and send it over. That way he'll know, and others will (eventually, depending on your own reputation) too as reputation points will be subtracted. And thus the blue blobs (which will eventually turn red).

The same is true of the opposite, if someone makes a good or helpful post, award "some green" (the blue blobs used to be green ) by approving.

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Cheers
Stefan



"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority,
and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"

diverklondike

I am glad to see all of the posts supporting Andrew and Mad Dog Expeditions. They are a first class operation. MDE has a reputation for running excellent CCR trips to locations that can be considered “remote”. With this in mind, MDE “invested” in a GSE FlexiDec Portable Hyperbaric Chamber as an added safety precaution for their expeditions.

From a personal prospective when MDE first purchased the chamber several years ago, I was fortunate enough attend a Hyperbaric Chamber Operators class given by Joe Dituri. I would highly recommend a class like this to anyone that is a serious diver. I found the training on how to handle DCS and other medical dive issues invaluable. In addition to hyperbaric treatment protocals we discussed In Water Treatment Protocals.

From an operational perspective by the end of the class a team of three people could have the chamber fully assembled and ready to accept a diver in under three minutes.

To Alex’s comment on the support requirements for smaller chambers. The MDE chamber is a portable multi-man unit that does have an interlock that can also be set up if needed. As part of the training class we did work through the gas requirements for both pressurization and treatment. For this specific chamber they were both very manageable and reasonable for what would be available.

My apology for hijacking the thread… This was not meant to be a commercial for Andrew Driver and MDE but as many others have stated, we feel that the original poster must have some personal agenda for making the post. On the other perspective, I think we can all agree that many lives could be saved if more Hyperbaric chambers were more accessible portable or otherwise.

Dive Safe!

Mark

devo

After speaking with Stefan, and with 20/20 hind sight:

1) This was the wrong forum for this.
2) The wording was not great.
3) This was not intended as anything personal against anyone.

Apologies.

abowie

Good for you. It's never easy to back down in a public forum and you have my respect for it.

Have some green.

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Andrew Bowie

Rebreather-friendly Buddy

devo