Hard off switch on the Hammer Head

decoweenie · 1st November 2006, 18:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

there was one with this type of cause, but not sure exactly where it was..

I barely remember the victim's first name, Dave (?). And IIRC from what I heard, he was swimming hard on surface against strong current for the downline. And the unit timed out and turned itself off.

If he had descended a couple of meter, the unit supposedly will turn itself back on.

A Cis owner might want to correct me...

paulraymaekers · 5th November 2006, 08:52

hello all, just back from a week diving with the HH: performed perfect the whole week!

never got any rebooting anymore since I tightened my battery cap hard, and made a bigger hole around the wet switch
(I think the last one is standart now)

but I always do this:

at the end of the dive, out of the water, I always got to options and switch off the solenoid! (no batterie drain accidentally if the unit is on and breather open)

when I start diving, I open oxygen, do two flushes, I switch on the rEvodream and the HH, (the PPO2 is now +/- 0.9, I got to options and switch on the solenoid (normally standart mode) and I go diving...

and after 15/20 hours of diving I change the batt (SAFT 14500)

.... never a problem since then...

just my XX cents

paul

decoweenie · 5th November 2006, 08:57

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

...I tightened my battery cap hard...

Paul,

Check with Kevin concerning about tighten the battery cap hard.

On the older acrylic handset, the internal thread part could rotated and shear off the 2 wires to the battery. I know Kevin modified the newer battery compartment to prevent this from happening, but it is still probably a good idea to know how hard you could apply force to it.

Just a heads-up...

paulraymaekers · 5th November 2006, 09:02

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Paul,

Check with Kevin concerning about tighten the battery cap hard.

On the older acrylic handset, the internal thread part could rotated and shear off the 2 wires to the battery. I know Kevin modified the newer battery compartment to prevent this from happening, but it is still probably a good idea to know how hard you could apply force to it.

Just a heads-up...

I have the latest aluminium anodised units with the SS cap

regards
paul

**trob09** · 5th November 2006, 10:40

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

but I always do this:

at the end of the dive, out of the water, I always got to options and switch off the solenoid! (no batterie drain accidentally if the unit is on and breather open)

paul

Paul, I did something similar last week on my new hammerhead..

Once out of the water, I switch to OC mode on the primary. that stops the solenoid from firing with fewer button pushes (you don't have to go into the OPT menu like the solenoid on/off).

When starting the prebreathe for the next dive, turn it on. It's now in my check list.

Tim

paulraymaekers · 5th November 2006, 13:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by trob09)

Paul, I did something similar last week on my new hammerhead..

Once out of the water, I switch to OC mode on the primary. that stops the solenoid from firing with fewer button pushes (you don't have to go into the OPT menu like the solenoid on/off).

When starting the prebreathe for the next dive, turn it on. It's now in my check list.

Tim

hello Tim: good advice, will try it next time!
paul

Dinspiration · 5th November 2006, 18:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

and after 15/20 hours of diving I change the batt (SAFT 14500)

Hello Paul,

do you remove the battery, when there is a longer peroid between the dives? Or do you just change it after the 15/20 hours of diving?

The second question is about the HH integraton within your rEvo II: Is it possible to use the parts from a HH for the Inspiration for the rEvo II?

DINspiration

paulraymaekers · 5th November 2006, 18:42

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dinspiration)

Hello Paul,

do you remove the battery, when there is a longer peroid between the dives? Or do you just change it after the 15/20 hours of diving?

The second question is about the HH integraton within your rEvo II: Is it possible to use the parts from a HH for the Inspiration for the rEvo II?

DINspiration

I don't remove the batt, even if I don't dive for 2 weeks (if I remember correct, the drain is 400 micro-amp when the unit is asleep, with the 3.6V batt, so the unit can sleep +/- 5000 hours on a SAFT14500)

on the rEvo II (my test-version, not the official one) I use the primary controller, go with the cable in the exhale lung (by P-port), split off the 2 wires for the solenoid), go out with a cable with the rest of the wires, (by the same p-port), enter the inhale lung (p-port) and go to the cells)
works fine

I have no experience with the secondary, as I use a rEvodream/hud as secondary :-)
regards
paul

PeteS · 5th November 2006, 18:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by trob09)

Once out of the water, I switch to OC mode on the primary. that stops the solenoid from firing with fewer button pushes (you don't have to go into the OPT menu like the solenoid on/off).

When starting the prebreathe for the next dive, turn it on. It's now in my check list.

Here I am standing on the sidelines, watching a good discussion. It's actually reassuring to see that it's not only Vision units that have "issues".....

My Conclusions?

It looks to me like the reasons given for not having a "hard off" are being side stepped by the users, so that the solenoid is in the "Soft off" (OC) mode, which could put the user in the position of getting in the water with the solenoid disabled.

The brown out circuits should be designed to work properly so that the rebooting and firing the solenoid underwater can be avoided. The solenoid could be firing into a loop of unknown PPO2, and if shit happens to a battery, so that you need to fly manually, you really don't want the additional layer of shit caused by losing all your deco data. Isn't this what the BSAC used to refer to as "the incident pit" aka "a cluster f***"

Some type of battery monitoring should be fitted.

All in all, a five minute job to redesign the software/firmware/hardware.

And finally, is the inverse of a "Soft Off" a "Hard On"

**trob09** · 5th November 2006, 19:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by PeteS)

Here I am standing on the sidelines, watching a good discussion. It's actually reassuring to see that it's not only Vision units that have "issues".....

My Conclusions?

It looks to me like the reasons given for not having a "hard off" are being side stepped by the users, so that the solenoid is in the "Soft off" (OC) mode, which could put the user in the position of getting in the water with the solenoid disabled.

The brown out circuits should be designed to work properly so that the rebooting and firing the solenoid underwater can be avoided. The solenoid could be firing into a loop of unknown PPO2, and if shit happens to a battery, so that you need to fly manually, you really don't want the additional layer of shit caused by losing all your deco data. Isn't this what the BSAC used to refer to as "the incident pit" aka "a cluster f***"

Some type of battery monitoring should be fitted.

All in all, a five minute job to redesign the software/firmware/hardware.

And finally, is the inverse of a "Soft Off" a "Hard On"

Just a short follow-up since you quoted me, the Hammerhead solenoid will fire even in OC mode if the loop PO2 falls below .19. This is one of the saftey protocols built-in I feel this method is an acceptable solution to "turning off" the solenoid once out of the water.

1st November 2006, 18:59	#61 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: Hard off switch on the Hammer Head Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) there was one with this type of cause, but not sure exactly where it was.. I barely remember the victim's first name, Dave (?). And IIRC from what I heard, he was swimming hard on surface against strong current for the downline. And the unit timed out and turned itself off. If he had descended a couple of meter, the unit supposedly will turn itself back on. A Cis owner might want to correct me... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
(Offline)

5th November 2006, 08:52	#62 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,494	Re: Hard off switch on the Hammer Head hello all, just back from a week diving with the HH: performed perfect the whole week! never got any rebooting anymore since I tightened my battery cap hard, and made a bigger hole around the wet switch (I think the last one is standart now) but I always do this: at the end of the dive, out of the water, I always got to options and switch off the solenoid! (no batterie drain accidentally if the unit is on and breather open) when I start diving, I open oxygen, do two flushes, I switch on the rEvodream and the HH, (the PPO2 is now +/- 0.9, I got to options and switch on the solenoid (normally standart mode) and I go diving... and after 15/20 hours of diving I change the batt (SAFT 14500) .... never a problem since then... just my XX cents paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
(Online)

5th November 2006, 08:57	#63 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: Hard off switch on the Hammer Head Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) ...I tightened my battery cap hard... Paul, Check with Kevin concerning about tighten the battery cap hard. On the older acrylic handset, the internal thread part could rotated and shear off the 2 wires to the battery. I know Kevin modified the newer battery compartment to prevent this from happening, but it is still probably a good idea to know how hard you could apply force to it. Just a heads-up... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
(Offline)

5th November 2006, 09:02	#64 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,494	Re: Hard off switch on the Hammer Head Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Paul, Check with Kevin concerning about tighten the battery cap hard. On the older acrylic handset, the internal thread part could rotated and shear off the 2 wires to the battery. I know Kevin modified the newer battery compartment to prevent this from happening, but it is still probably a good idea to know how hard you could apply force to it. Just a heads-up... I have the latest aluminium anodised units with the SS cap regards paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
(Online)

5th November 2006, 10:40	#65 (permalink)
trob09 . Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 699	Re: Hard off switch on the Hammer Head Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) but I always do this: at the end of the dive, out of the water, I always got to options and switch off the solenoid! (no batterie drain accidentally if the unit is on and breather open) paul Paul, I did something similar last week on my new hammerhead.. Once out of the water, I switch to OC mode on the primary. that stops the solenoid from firing with fewer button pushes (you don't have to go into the OPT menu like the solenoid on/off). When starting the prebreathe for the next dive, turn it on. It's now in my check list. Tim
(Offline)

5th November 2006, 13:10	#66 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,494	Re: Hard off switch on the Hammer Head Quote: (Originally Posted by trob09) Paul, I did something similar last week on my new hammerhead.. Once out of the water, I switch to OC mode on the primary. that stops the solenoid from firing with fewer button pushes (you don't have to go into the OPT menu like the solenoid on/off). When starting the prebreathe for the next dive, turn it on. It's now in my check list. Tim hello Tim: good advice, will try it next time! paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
(Online)

5th November 2006, 18:11	#67 (permalink)
Dinspiration Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other CCR Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Switzerland Posts: 209	Re: Hard off switch on the Hammer Head Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) and after 15/20 hours of diving I change the batt (SAFT 14500) Hello Paul, do you remove the battery, when there is a longer peroid between the dives? Or do you just change it after the 15/20 hours of diving? The second question is about the HH integraton within your rEvo II: Is it possible to use the parts from a HH for the Inspiration for the rEvo II? DINspiration
(Offline)

5th November 2006, 18:42	#68 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,494	Re: Hard off switch on the Hammer Head Quote: (Originally Posted by Dinspiration) Hello Paul, do you remove the battery, when there is a longer peroid between the dives? Or do you just change it after the 15/20 hours of diving? The second question is about the HH integraton within your rEvo II: Is it possible to use the parts from a HH for the Inspiration for the rEvo II? DINspiration I don't remove the batt, even if I don't dive for 2 weeks (if I remember correct, the drain is 400 micro-amp when the unit is asleep, with the 3.6V batt, so the unit can sleep +/- 5000 hours on a SAFT14500) on the rEvo II (my test-version, not the official one) I use the primary controller, go with the cable in the exhale lung (by P-port), split off the 2 wires for the solenoid), go out with a cable with the rest of the wires, (by the same p-port), enter the inhale lung (p-port) and go to the cells) works fine I have no experience with the secondary, as I use a rEvodream/hud as secondary :-) regards paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
(Online)

5th November 2006, 18:50	#69 (permalink)
PeteS Consent Issued! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New Zealand Posts: 533	Re: Hard off switch on the Hammer Head Quote: (Originally Posted by trob09) Once out of the water, I switch to OC mode on the primary. that stops the solenoid from firing with fewer button pushes (you don't have to go into the OPT menu like the solenoid on/off). When starting the prebreathe for the next dive, turn it on. It's now in my check list. Here I am standing on the sidelines, watching a good discussion. It's actually reassuring to see that it's not only Vision units that have "issues"..... My Conclusions? It looks to me like the reasons given for not having a "hard off" are being side stepped by the users, so that the solenoid is in the "Soft off" (OC) mode, which could put the user in the position of getting in the water with the solenoid disabled. The brown out circuits should be designed to work properly so that the rebooting and firing the solenoid underwater can be avoided. The solenoid could be firing into a loop of unknown PPO2, and if shit happens to a battery, so that you need to fly manually, you really don't want the additional layer of shit caused by losing all your deco data. Isn't this what the BSAC used to refer to as "the incident pit" aka "a cluster f***" Some type of battery monitoring should be fitted. All in all, a five minute job to redesign the software/firmware/hardware. And finally, is the inverse of a "Soft Off" a "Hard On" __________________ Pete S. http://www.steggle.co.nz Every silver lining has a cloud
(Offline)

5th November 2006, 19:22	#70 (permalink)
trob09 . Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 699	Re: Hard off switch on the Hammer Head Quote: (Originally Posted by PeteS) Here I am standing on the sidelines, watching a good discussion. It's actually reassuring to see that it's not only Vision units that have "issues"..... My Conclusions? It looks to me like the reasons given for not having a "hard off" are being side stepped by the users, so that the solenoid is in the "Soft off" (OC) mode, which could put the user in the position of getting in the water with the solenoid disabled. The brown out circuits should be designed to work properly so that the rebooting and firing the solenoid underwater can be avoided. The solenoid could be firing into a loop of unknown PPO2, and if shit happens to a battery, so that you need to fly manually, you really don't want the additional layer of shit caused by losing all your deco data. Isn't this what the BSAC used to refer to as "the incident pit" aka "a cluster f***" Some type of battery monitoring should be fitted. All in all, a five minute job to redesign the software/firmware/hardware. And finally, is the inverse of a "Soft Off" a "Hard On" Just a short follow-up since you quoted me, the Hammerhead solenoid will fire even in OC mode if the loop PO2 falls below .19. This is one of the saftey protocols built-in I feel this method is an acceptable solution to "turning off" the solenoid once out of the water.
(Offline)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode