Inspo with Vision or Meg with Hammerhead

Phil · 27th October 2006, 12:49

Quote: (Originally Posted by Deep Thought)

Meg with Hammerhead - well bad combination. I would choose the Meg with the new Shearwater electronics, or just deal with the apex or hope that some day over the rainbow that they will ever upgrade to new apex 3. The hammerhead works, as I’ve experienced on the optima, but not my first choice. Mom told me if I didn't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything....long pause......

Certainly agree with the above!

My vote goes for Meg, after my experiences with the HH on the Inspo, I would stay away from it. Standard Apecs 2.01 with a VR3 works fine for me!

Cheers,

***jradomski*** · 27th October 2006, 13:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by Deep Thought)

Meg with Hammerhead - well bad combination. I would choose the Meg with the new Shearwater electronics
Deep Thought

I ron,
This is the only point I would not agree on.. I havent heard of ANY Hmegs with any problems (there are over 20 of them out there - that was the number least time I asked and that was a while ago) , while there have been older shearwater failures.. I Have only heard about a few issues with the new shearwater stuff at this point, so the jury is still out.. I wish bruce the best of luck..

The old acrylic units worked great (rev A and C and reworked Rev B ), the Nikel units had some issues (depends on the batch), but the annodized units seem to be fine with the last of the pesky issues seem to be resolved.. It didnt really take that long to solve all the issues with the metal units considering the prototypes were oct/november of 2005 (when I received my unit it didn't even have a bezel), first shipping around jan 2006, then switched to annodized somehwere around march or april...

I know there is another small mod on the battery caps being tried to increase the margins further..

The issues with the pressure transducer aren't uncommon.. Everyone who has used the intersema sensor has had some painful learning experiences.. The sensor is great for measurement but the way it has to be mounted and variences in production tolerances suck.. It took delta-p much longer to fix their issues with this sensor than JM did.. We will see how bruce fairs, its too soon to tell...

The HH isn't perfect, but its setpoint control is better than anything else I have tried, and IMHO not having a hard off switch is a good thing.. I think the vision is OK but they still have too many software issues to resolve..

I can honestly say I have only missed 1 dive because of a HH failure and aborted one early , and those were on "prototype" rev b handsets...

Pierre Farrugia · 27th October 2006, 14:32

Quote: (Originally Posted by Deep Thought)

I don't have much sympathy for the whining about inspo electronics, most cases I've seen are due to use or misuse.

Deep Thought

Very kind of yours ! Why don't you give us some help on how not to misuse our Inspo, maybe leaving it at home ?

If you ask me now I would choose a Meg but cannot grumble about my Inspo either, knowing that I was extremely caring about my handsets and being found both cracked, after repair I don't know what I should do, so this does not happen again! Mine were always clipped to handle inside lungs, unit always clipped upright, even in boat. And under water clipped to inside lungs!

Sorry for the hijack!!

RonMicjan · 27th October 2006, 17:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy)

just out of curiosity, and I know ahead of time that even the thought is kind of blasphemous

, but has anyone tried or thought of trying to retrofit the meg with vision electonics...to make a vision-meg?

I actually thought of this a while ago when the evo first came out, but they want so much freaking money for the electronics if you dont have a trade in that I could buy 4 VR3's

it would be a fun conversion, kinda like the dolphin I just built powered by my old shearwater pod that I pulled out of the meg. Like putting a chevy engine in a ford just for grins. Now i have an E-CCR dolphin BAHHAHAHAHAHAH

**trob09** · 27th October 2006, 18:57

As Ron mentions in his post, this decision is largely a personal one. Both combinations work. Individual opinions can be heavily influenced by experiences with various units and the people who produce them.

Two days ago I received my Hammerhead conversion for my meg and I eagerly await its sea trials next week. I have high expectations as I've watched about a half-dozen others conduct dive after dive on their HammerMegs with no problems while I sat on the boat trying to figure out why my ISC-supplied Shearwater Meg wasn't working. My initial reaction to the Hammerhead is positive. It is a solidly built bit of gear.

I, of course, had the option of going Apecs 2 from ISC or having Bruce install his new Shearwater unit on my Meg once the original Shearwater bit it. Both options would have been cheaper than going to the Hammerhead. My personal opinion is that having electronic setpoint control but no integrated deco is a bit like being half-pregnant. As such, I'm not a fan of Apecs 2 electronics. Given that I had some recent bad experience with Shearwater, I chose not to go that route. Bruce will say that the problem is in how ISC potted the boards. ISC has said they have had "lots of problems" with the shearwater units & stopped offering it or supporting it. In the end, I was left with electronics that I had paid a premium for that didn't work and I couldn't get fixed. I do agree with Ron's comment about Shearwater - the interface is very intuitive. And when it worked, it worked great.

I don't have direct experience with Vision units, so I'll refrain from commenting on them.

Tim

Phil · 29th October 2006, 06:40

Quote: (Originally Posted by Phil)

Certainly agree with the above!

My vote goes for Meg, after my experiences with the HH on the Inspo, I would stay away from it. Standard Apecs 2.01 with a VR3 works fine for me!

Cheers,

Guys,

Just had a PM with Kevin, which was obviously not happy by my post as he supported my HH from the day start. Basically in a matter fairness I will develop a little bit my comment:

- I was on the second batch of HH rev A with Fischer connector. From 60m or so I started having issues with the Fischer on the primary. Connectors were getting wet and PPO2 was rising around 2.5 or 3.0 while secondary was fine... Due to this solenoid was not firing.

- Few bugs in the software so primary were flying over the atlantic on regular basis. Quality was not good and few times got none or partially working unit.

- The decided to upgrade to metal handset, Kevin thought that everything was under control with the production of the new handset and I could send mine for upgrade. Unfortunately at the latest minutes the machine shop went bust and the new HH got some serious delay. I was not Kevin's fault but it did not help.

- When I got the new HH back it some issues with the battery connectors, at that time I was not really concerned since my Boris was due a month later. I left the HH as it is for about 4 months and decided to sell it. Since I could not sale it with these battery connectors faulty. Unit had to go back for service/ upgrade.

- Time being unit was sold and when I got it back one of the battrey cap was missing, so it took another 3 weeks to get a battery cap!

- Just been in touch with the guy who bought my HH and he is happy. Unit has been working fine. So it looks like the HH is finally on the right track.

I must say that during those years Kevin has always been very helpfull and trying to find the best solution, we spend many hours on the phone covering these issues. What really got me is the quality control and thoroughness of test before sending a unit back. I guess Jurgensen Marine has reach a new level today with the Optima and this is not an issue anymore.

Do not hesitate to PM if more info is needed!

27th October 2006, 12:49	#11 (permalink)
Phil Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon rEvo Other CCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Geneva-Switzerland Posts: 173	Re: Inspo with Vision or Meg with Hammerhead Quote: (Originally Posted by Deep Thought) Meg with Hammerhead - well bad combination. I would choose the Meg with the new Shearwater electronics, or just deal with the apex or hope that some day over the rainbow that they will ever upgrade to new apex 3. The hammerhead works, as I’ve experienced on the optima, but not my first choice. Mom told me if I didn't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything....long pause...... Certainly agree with the above! My vote goes for Meg, after my experiences with the HH on the Inspo, I would stay away from it. Standard Apecs 2.01 with a VR3 works fine for me! Cheers, __________________ Phil __________________ CCR/OC Instructor CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com
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27th October 2006, 13:47	#12 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,113	Re: Inspo with Vision or Meg with Hammerhead Quote: (Originally Posted by Deep Thought) Meg with Hammerhead - well bad combination. I would choose the Meg with the new Shearwater electronics Deep Thought I ron, This is the only point I would not agree on.. I havent heard of ANY Hmegs with any problems (there are over 20 of them out there - that was the number least time I asked and that was a while ago) , while there have been older shearwater failures.. I Have only heard about a few issues with the new shearwater stuff at this point, so the jury is still out.. I wish bruce the best of luck.. The old acrylic units worked great (rev A and C and reworked Rev B ), the Nikel units had some issues (depends on the batch), but the annodized units seem to be fine with the last of the pesky issues seem to be resolved.. It didnt really take that long to solve all the issues with the metal units considering the prototypes were oct/november of 2005 (when I received my unit it didn't even have a bezel), first shipping around jan 2006, then switched to annodized somehwere around march or april... I know there is another small mod on the battery caps being tried to increase the margins further.. The issues with the pressure transducer aren't uncommon.. Everyone who has used the intersema sensor has had some painful learning experiences.. The sensor is great for measurement but the way it has to be mounted and variences in production tolerances suck.. It took delta-p much longer to fix their issues with this sensor than JM did.. We will see how bruce fairs, its too soon to tell... The HH isn't perfect, but its setpoint control is better than anything else I have tried, and IMHO not having a hard off switch is a good thing.. I think the vision is OK but they still have too many software issues to resolve.. I can honestly say I have only missed 1 dive because of a HH failure and aborted one early , and those were on "prototype" rev b handsets... __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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27th October 2006, 14:32	#13 (permalink)
Pierre Farrugia Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Malta Posts: 636	Re: Inspo with Vision or Meg with Hammerhead Quote: (Originally Posted by Deep Thought) I don't have much sympathy for the whining about inspo electronics, most cases I've seen are due to use or misuse. Deep Thought Very kind of yours ! Why don't you give us some help on how not to misuse our Inspo, maybe leaving it at home ? If you ask me now I would choose a Meg but cannot grumble about my Inspo either, knowing that I was extremely caring about my handsets and being found both cracked, after repair I don't know what I should do, so this does not happen again! Mine were always clipped to handle inside lungs, unit always clipped upright, even in boat. And under water clipped to inside lungs! Sorry for the hijack!! __________________ Pierre Farrugia My wife told me " If you don't quit diving I'm going to leave you" My reply " God, I'll miss you" www.atlam.org www.divemed.com
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27th October 2006, 17:55	#14 (permalink)
RonMicjan Cap Ron scourge of the NW Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Disapointment, The Graveyard of the Pacific Posts: 1,120	Re: Inspo with Vision or Meg with Hammerhead Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy) just out of curiosity, and I know ahead of time that even the thought is kind of blasphemous , but has anyone tried or thought of trying to retrofit the meg with vision electonics...to make a vision-meg? I actually thought of this a while ago when the evo first came out, but they want so much freaking money for the electronics if you dont have a trade in that I could buy 4 VR3's it would be a fun conversion, kinda like the dolphin I just built powered by my old shearwater pod that I pulled out of the meg. Like putting a chevy engine in a ford just for grins. Now i have an E-CCR dolphin BAHHAHAHAHAHAH __________________ Marine rescue, towing and salvage. Interfering with natural selection since 1983. www.tmishop.com Diving bits etc. www.seatowpdx.com The Summer Job Last edited by RonMicjan : 27th October 2006 at 18:04.
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27th October 2006, 18:57	#15 (permalink)
trob09 . Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 701	Re: Inspo with Vision or Meg with Hammerhead As Ron mentions in his post, this decision is largely a personal one. Both combinations work. Individual opinions can be heavily influenced by experiences with various units and the people who produce them. Two days ago I received my Hammerhead conversion for my meg and I eagerly await its sea trials next week. I have high expectations as I've watched about a half-dozen others conduct dive after dive on their HammerMegs with no problems while I sat on the boat trying to figure out why my ISC-supplied Shearwater Meg wasn't working. My initial reaction to the Hammerhead is positive. It is a solidly built bit of gear. I, of course, had the option of going Apecs 2 from ISC or having Bruce install his new Shearwater unit on my Meg once the original Shearwater bit it. Both options would have been cheaper than going to the Hammerhead. My personal opinion is that having electronic setpoint control but no integrated deco is a bit like being half-pregnant. As such, I'm not a fan of Apecs 2 electronics. Given that I had some recent bad experience with Shearwater, I chose not to go that route. Bruce will say that the problem is in how ISC potted the boards. ISC has said they have had "lots of problems" with the shearwater units & stopped offering it or supporting it. In the end, I was left with electronics that I had paid a premium for that didn't work and I couldn't get fixed. I do agree with Ron's comment about Shearwater - the interface is very intuitive. And when it worked, it worked great. I don't have direct experience with Vision units, so I'll refrain from commenting on them. Tim
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29th October 2006, 06:40	#16 (permalink)
Phil Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon rEvo Other CCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Geneva-Switzerland Posts: 173	Re: Inspo with Vision or Meg with Hammerhead Quote: (Originally Posted by Phil) Certainly agree with the above! My vote goes for Meg, after my experiences with the HH on the Inspo, I would stay away from it. Standard Apecs 2.01 with a VR3 works fine for me! Cheers, Guys, Just had a PM with Kevin, which was obviously not happy by my post as he supported my HH from the day start. Basically in a matter fairness I will develop a little bit my comment: - I was on the second batch of HH rev A with Fischer connector. From 60m or so I started having issues with the Fischer on the primary. Connectors were getting wet and PPO2 was rising around 2.5 or 3.0 while secondary was fine... Due to this solenoid was not firing. - Few bugs in the software so primary were flying over the atlantic on regular basis. Quality was not good and few times got none or partially working unit. - The decided to upgrade to metal handset, Kevin thought that everything was under control with the production of the new handset and I could send mine for upgrade. Unfortunately at the latest minutes the machine shop went bust and the new HH got some serious delay. I was not Kevin's fault but it did not help. - When I got the new HH back it some issues with the battery connectors, at that time I was not really concerned since my Boris was due a month later. I left the HH as it is for about 4 months and decided to sell it. Since I could not sale it with these battery connectors faulty. Unit had to go back for service/ upgrade. - Time being unit was sold and when I got it back one of the battrey cap was missing, so it took another 3 weeks to get a battery cap! - Just been in touch with the guy who bought my HH and he is happy. Unit has been working fine. So it looks like the HH is finally on the right track. I must say that during those years Kevin has always been very helpfull and trying to find the best solution, we spend many hours on the phone covering these issues. What really got me is the quality control and thoroughness of test before sending a unit back. I guess Jurgensen Marine has reach a new level today with the Optima and this is not an issue anymore. Do not hesitate to PM if more info is needed! __________________ Phil __________________ CCR/OC Instructor CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com
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