HID Wierdy....

***schford*** · 2nd June 2005, 21:35

I have a fantastic Salvo 21 Watt torch purchased from Diving Niknaks (review in due course) and am super pleased with it. Its a light Sabre

But...I had a really scary experince........I had the goodmans handle clipped onto the CL which was right next to the HUD......

I turned it on and the HUD started !? It was flashing Red Green, Red Green and kept going. I though oh shit I have fried the electronics....

In a state of panic I turned it off, reset it, did a hard reset and nothing worked - arrrrr(EDIT - clarify nothing worked properly eg it continued to flash red green red green red green)

Rang Leon who calmly says ohhh thats very strange - that error signal means the clocks between the HUD computer and the shearwater have gone out of synch.

To fix it as long as your not diving for 24 hours switch them both off for a few minutes then recalibrate them...

I did this and voila - it all works....

Any one else seen anything like this?

Stuart

Ps I only worked out it was the HID the second time i did it lol!

decoweenie · 3rd June 2005, 04:57

Stuart,

Are you saying that the magnetic field from the HID ballast affected the SW and HUD ?

If so, be an interesting experiment to test which of your appliances are *unshielded*

***schford*** · 3rd June 2005, 08:40

Hey Phi,

It appeared to affect the HUD not the shearwater, and the ballast was right next to the LED of the HUD itself....

Stuart

divingniknaks · 3rd June 2005, 08:45

Needless to say folks , I have somewhat of an interest to declare here !

I'm going to pass this one on to Barry (Salvo) for his deliberation also. I'll post his thoughts when I get 'em.

Is this possibly (ignorance showing) a difference in Rebreather units. As Mark Chase has the same light unit but presumably totally different electronics systems on the RB ?

I'm gonna stop now before I embarrass myself further displaying my stunning ignorance of the Rebreather world. (I did say in my intro I was here to learn).

Phill

londonsean69 · 3rd June 2005, 08:45

Stuart

I too have the Salvo 21w/9ah, and it is indeed a mighty torch

However, I have often wondered just how much intererence big ballasts cause to electronics, as well as other things, like compasses.

Just an idle thought from an idle worker.

Cheers

Andy M · 3rd June 2005, 08:53

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

I turned it on and the HUD started !? It was flashing Red Green, Red Green and kept going. I though oh shit I have fried the electronics....

Rang Leon who calmly says ohhh thats very strange - that error single means the clocks between the HUD computer and the shearwater have gone out of timing.

Very interesting. IMHO the Meg electronics should be able to deal with this kind of interference, especially as they are life support equipment. A HID ballast starting up will generate an EM field. I can hear my Salvo 21W start up.

The question should be asked - why didnt the Meg electronics resynchronise after the disruption or why werent they adequately shielded. An EM field could be generated by all sorts of things, not just a ballast starting up. Mobile phones are another example.

Andy

***schford*** · 3rd June 2005, 09:00

Hi Andy,

don't know but Bruce has been in contact and is going to run some tests...

Never had a problem with my mobile aroundthe Meg though

If I hear anythign will keep you all updated.

Stuart

decoweenie · 3rd June 2005, 09:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

Never had a problem with my mobile aroundthe Meg though

Your phone works in lower voltage than HID light. The ballast boosts the voltage up very high from the supplied 12-volt.

Here is something to toss in...

I don't know if your Salvo is built with the standard WA ballast or the newer (Chinese) Bright-Star ballast that recently coming to the market. I wonder if the boosted voltage is very different since the bulbs are different.

I will call Carl at Sartek to ask since they are starting to offer the option of using Bright-Star ballast/bulb since the WA parts are getting more difficult to get.

I have been using HID light for the last 6-7 years without ever noticing anything like you mentioned, but then again, I don't have a lot of electronic come too close to contact to the HID light besides dive computers and PO2 meters though.

BTW, if anyone is interested, I will be getting a switch-able 12-24w HID light to test soon...

***EBT*** · 3rd June 2005, 10:03

Its nowt to do with voltage.

Your mobile is kicking out a peak of 1 watt at around 900Mhz (or 1.8 or 2.1 Gig).

I hate to think of all the RF mess a HID ballast kicks out and I'd imagine its got a pretty strong magnetic portion of an EM field when it collapses the pump circuit. This is probably where the problem lies, since water very rapidly attenuates the E portion.....

Seems a bit odd that the Meg doesnt re-synch more rapidly, but then thats the beauty of product developement, all those new undocumented 'features' you discover

divingniknaks · 3rd June 2005, 10:13

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

I don't know if your Salvo is built with the standard WA ballast or the newer (Chinese) Bright-Star ballast that recently coming to the market.

The Salvo uses the Brightstar internals, which is why it's so much more robust that the WA internal units, which will remain nameless

Cheers
Phill

2nd June 2005, 21:35	#1 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,562	HID Wierdy.... I have a fantastic Salvo 21 Watt torch purchased from Diving Niknaks (review in due course) and am super pleased with it. Its a light Sabre But...I had a really scary experince........I had the goodmans handle clipped onto the CL which was right next to the HUD...... I turned it on and the HUD started !? It was flashing Red Green, Red Green and kept going. I though oh shit I have fried the electronics.... In a state of panic I turned it off, reset it, did a hard reset and nothing worked - arrrrr(EDIT - clarify nothing worked properly eg it continued to flash red green red green red green) Rang Leon who calmly says ohhh thats very strange - that error signal means the clocks between the HUD computer and the shearwater have gone out of synch. To fix it as long as your not diving for 24 hours switch them both off for a few minutes then recalibrate them... I did this and voila - it all works.... Any one else seen anything like this? Stuart Ps I only worked out it was the HID the second time i did it lol!
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3rd June 2005, 04:57	#2 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Stuart, Are you saying that the magnetic field from the HID ballast affected the SW and HUD ? If so, be an interesting experiment to test which of your appliances are unshielded
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3rd June 2005, 08:40	#3 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,562	Hey Phi, It appeared to affect the HUD not the shearwater, and the ballast was right next to the LED of the HUD itself.... Stuart
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3rd June 2005, 08:45	#4 (permalink)
divingniknaks RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: May 2005 Location: West Midlands , UK Posts: 71	Needless to say folks , I have somewhat of an interest to declare here ! I'm going to pass this one on to Barry (Salvo) for his deliberation also. I'll post his thoughts when I get 'em. Is this possibly (ignorance showing) a difference in Rebreather units. As Mark Chase has the same light unit but presumably totally different electronics systems on the RB ? I'm gonna stop now before I embarrass myself further displaying my stunning ignorance of the Rebreather world. (I did say in my intro I was here to learn). Phill
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3rd June 2005, 08:45	#5 (permalink)
londonsean69 Rebreather World Writer Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Sunny Lanzaote Posts: 49	Stuart I too have the Salvo 21w/9ah, and it is indeed a mighty torch However, I have often wondered just how much intererence big ballasts cause to electronics, as well as other things, like compasses. Just an idle thought from an idle worker. Cheers __________________ __________________________________ Sean Arrowsmith ---------------------------------- From birth, man carries the weight of gravity on his shoulders. He is bolted to earth. But man has only to sink beneath the surface and he is free. - Jacques Cousteau
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3rd June 2005, 08:53	#6 (permalink)
Andy M Dude Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 423	Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) I turned it on and the HUD started !? It was flashing Red Green, Red Green and kept going. I though oh shit I have fried the electronics.... Rang Leon who calmly says ohhh thats very strange - that error single means the clocks between the HUD computer and the shearwater have gone out of timing. Very interesting. IMHO the Meg electronics should be able to deal with this kind of interference, especially as they are life support equipment. A HID ballast starting up will generate an EM field. I can hear my Salvo 21W start up. The question should be asked - why didnt the Meg electronics resynchronise after the disruption or why werent they adequately shielded. An EM field could be generated by all sorts of things, not just a ballast starting up. Mobile phones are another example. Andy __________________ Know your PO2 at all times
(Online)

3rd June 2005, 09:00	#7 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,562	Hi Andy, don't know but Bruce has been in contact and is going to run some tests... Never had a problem with my mobile aroundthe Meg though If I hear anythign will keep you all updated. Stuart
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3rd June 2005, 09:55	#8 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) Never had a problem with my mobile aroundthe Meg though Your phone works in lower voltage than HID light. The ballast boosts the voltage up very high from the supplied 12-volt. Here is something to toss in... I don't know if your Salvo is built with the standard WA ballast or the newer (Chinese) Bright-Star ballast that recently coming to the market. I wonder if the boosted voltage is very different since the bulbs are different. I will call Carl at Sartek to ask since they are starting to offer the option of using Bright-Star ballast/bulb since the WA parts are getting more difficult to get. I have been using HID light for the last 6-7 years without ever noticing anything like you mentioned, but then again, I don't have a lot of electronic come too close to contact to the HID light besides dive computers and PO2 meters though. BTW, if anyone is interested, I will be getting a switch-able 12-24w HID light to test soon...
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3rd June 2005, 10:03	#9 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,970	Its nowt to do with voltage. Your mobile is kicking out a peak of 1 watt at around 900Mhz (or 1.8 or 2.1 Gig). I hate to think of all the RF mess a HID ballast kicks out and I'd imagine its got a pretty strong magnetic portion of an EM field when it collapses the pump circuit. This is probably where the problem lies, since water very rapidly attenuates the E portion..... Seems a bit odd that the Meg doesnt re-synch more rapidly, but then thats the beauty of product developement, all those new undocumented 'features' you discover __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
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3rd June 2005, 10:13	#10 (permalink)
divingniknaks RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: May 2005 Location: West Midlands , UK Posts: 71	Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) I don't know if your Salvo is built with the standard WA ballast or the newer (Chinese) Bright-Star ballast that recently coming to the market. The Salvo uses the Brightstar internals, which is why it's so much more robust that the WA internal units, which will remain nameless Cheers Phill
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